Did Joseph Smith teach Adam-God?

[Grug the Neanderthal]

7 hours ago, Rain said:

I learned about God and the Holy Ghost from my patents which eventually leads back to the scriptures.

Exactly, you wouldn't know anything about our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost, that you should pray, etc. without the scriptures. 

[Grug the Neanderthal]

10 hours ago, pogi said:

13 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I think the difference (and it’s a big one) is that you believe that testing the word leads to setting aside or reinterpreting teachings in the scriptures

If it doesn't bear fruit then we shouldn't just blindly trust that it is a good fruit.  In such a case, yes, we should set it aside or interpret it in a way that does bear fruit.  Why press forward in a fruitless and blind faith?

Let's look at what Alma 32 actually says about experimenting on the word and how to tell if the word is good or not: 

26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.

27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.

34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.

35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.

38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life.

41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life.

42 And because of your diligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the fruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.

43 Then, my brethren, ye shall reap the rewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth fruit unto you.

When you were a missionary and read these verses with investigators and challenged them to plant and nourish the seed, if they rejected the message this didn't mean that the message was false or bad. Instead they rejected it because they either cast out the word because of unbelief and resisting the spirit or they neglected to continue nourishing their faith when it was still in its infancy and so it never took root and their ground became barren and they never received good fruit. 

Alma isn't saying that if we don't receive a testimony that a teaching in the scriptures is true or we consider it to be wrong because it goes against our current belief system or cultural norms that we either reinterpret it or set it aside as false. He's saying the exact opposite. He is saying that we need to exercise faith, even if it's just a desire to believe, and then press forward and nourish our faith in the principle or teaching until it begins to grow. Then when it begins to grow we have to keep nourishing it. But few will do this. Instead they cast the word out because of unbelief and resisting the spirit or they neglect to continue nourishing their faith when it was still in its infancy and so it never takes root and their ground becomes barren and they never received good fruit.

[Rain]

 

1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Exactly, you wouldn't know anything about our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost, that you should pray, etc. without the scriptures. 

No, I did NOT say that. I specifically said that is where I learned, not where everyone learns. Plus I specifically said the scriptures and leaders were a hindrance to my prayers.

[Grug the Neanderthal]

23 minutes ago, Rain said:

I specifically said that is where I learned

Yes, exactly. That’s what I said. 

23 minutes ago, Rain said:

not where everyone learns.

I disagree. Mankind wouldn’t know anything about Jesus Christ or his gospel without the scriptures/prophets. Whether people personally read the scriptures or listen to the words of a prophet directly, or get them from someone else, is not the point. This is where the knowledge comes from.

23 minutes ago, Rain said:

Plus I specifically said the scriptures and leaders were a hindrance to my prayers.

I don’t want to downplay your experience, but I would suggest that this isn’t completely accurate. Without the scriptures/prophets telling us to pray and how to do it, your parents never would have taught you to pray. 

But I’m glad that you eventually built your own personal relationship with God through prayer and found a method that works for you. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

People in China have access to the scriptures. There are Christian denominations in China. But most Chinese aren't Christians and know little to nothing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, nor do they pray to our Heavenly Father. 

You say this one such a way as if you have been to China. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Dario_M

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Let's look at what Alma 32 actually says about experimenting on the word and how to tell if the word is good or not: 

26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.

27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.

34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.

35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.

38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life.

41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life.

42 And because of your diligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the fruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.

43 Then, my brethren, ye shall reap the rewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth fruit unto you.

When you were a missionary and read these verses with investigators and challenged them to plant and nourish the seed, if they rejected the message this didn't mean that the message was false or bad. Instead they rejected it because they either cast out the word because of unbelief and resisting the spirit or they neglected to continue nourishing their faith when it was still in its infancy and so it never took root and their ground became barren and they never received good fruit. 

Alma isn't saying that if we don't receive a testimony that a teaching in the scriptures is true or we consider it to be wrong because it goes against our current belief system or cultural norms that we either reinterpret it or set it aside as false. He's saying the exact opposite. He is saying that we need to exercise faith, even if it's just a desire to believe, and then press forward and nourish our faith in the principle or teaching until it begins to grow. Then when it begins to grow we have to keep nourishing it. But few will do this. Instead they cast the word out because of unbelief and resisting the spirit or they neglect to continue nourishing their faith when it was still in its infancy and so it never takes root and their ground becomes barren and they never received good fruit.

These passages are speaking of two types of people.  1) Those who give no room in their heart to try the seed and n the first place because of their bias and unbelief, and thus cast it off; and 2) those who have “tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.  And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.”

It is speaking of those who never try and those who “know” because of the fruits of enlightenment and understanding even if they haven’t yet tasted of the ultimate fruits of the “tree of life”, then subsequently quit nourishing it even after they know it is good.  It does not say that we should just have blind faith and never cast it off hoping that by the end of our lives something good finally comes of it. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by pogi

[california boy]

14 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Please name a culture that has zero access to the scriptures that prays to God and has any understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

 

 

Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Taoism, Jainism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism,  Baháʼí Faith, Shinto, Sikhism, Cheondoism, to name just a handful.   They have about as much knowledge of the Bible as you have of their sacred writings and beliefs.  Yet they all pray to God.  

Have you ever spent any time outside the United States?  I mean more than a 2 week vacation somewhere?  I have traveled to over 40 countries and spent 14 years living abroad for 6 months of the year.  I have seen people of all kinds of faiths praying to God in their own way and in all kinds of different forms of prayer.  I have seen their lives blessed by their religious beliefs who had no more knowledge of the Bible than you do of their sacred texts which I am guessing, by your question is little to nothing.  

The vast majority of the world have never picked up a Bible.  There are 1.9 billion Muslins alone.  I doubt very many of them learned to pray by reading the Bible.

Your assumption that most people learn to pray through the Bible or even from other Christians who have read the Bible is false.  Is this really a news flash????  

 

 

[CV75]

13 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I think I understand you just fine. The information you received prior to praying originally came from the scriptures/prophets, even though these were not cited. 

No, it did not. I received no information concerning "what the Holy Ghost is or how to recognize how he confirms truth" prior to praying. I only received it in connection with my prayer, and it was only confirmed by the scriptures later.

You evidently do not understand me, which is fine by me if you insist -- but if you would like t to understand me, please feel free to ask more questions.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

 

 

 

Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Taoism, Jainism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism,  Baháʼí Faith, Shinto, Sikhism, Cheondoism, to name just a handful.   They have about as much knowledge of the Bible as you have of their sacred writings and beliefs.  Yet they all pray to God.  

Have you ever spent any time outside the United States?  I mean more than a 2 week vacation somewhere?  I have traveled to over 40 countries and spent 14 years living abroad for 6 months of the year.  I have seen people of all kinds of faiths praying to God in their own way and in all kinds of different forms of prayer.  I have seen their lives blessed by their religious beliefs who had no more knowledge of the Bible than you do of their sacred texts which I am guessing, by your question is little to nothing.  

The vast majority of the world have never picked up a Bible.  There are 1.9 billion Muslins alone.  I doubt very many of them learned to pray by reading the Bible.

Your assumption that most people learn to pray through the Bible or even from other Christians who have read the Bible is false.  Is this really a news flash????  

 

 

Thank you, I tried to post something like this but I've no experience like you. 

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Mankind wouldn’t know anything about Jesus Christ or his gospel without the scriptures/prophets. Whether people personally read the scriptures or listen to the words of a prophet directly, or get them from someone else, is not the point. This is where the knowledge comes from.

This is an incorrect understanding, as Alma 12: 28-30 and Moses 5: 4 - 15, 58-59 and 6: 1-8 demonstrate.

As to where gospel knowledge comes from, its origin is with God and He uses many means and instruments to convey it to His children.

[Grug the Neanderthal]

7 hours ago, california boy said:

Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Taoism, Jainism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism,  Baháʼí Faith, Shinto, Sikhism, Cheondoism, to name just a handful.   They have about as much knowledge of the Bible as you have of their sacred writings and beliefs.  Yet they all pray to God.  

Jews and Muslims are Abrahamic faiths which have a similar origin and accept similar scriptures. Neither religion accepts Jesus Christ or his gospel.

The other religions you listed not only do not accept Jesus Christ or his gospel, they don’t have an even remotely similar understanding of God as the one taught in the scriptures. 

[Grug the Neanderthal]

7 hours ago, pogi said:

It does not say that we should just have blind faith and never cast it off hoping that by the end of our lives something good finally comes of it. 

Again, no one is saying anything about having blind faith. So I don’t know why you keep bringing this up.

As for the rest, if you don’t like a certain teaching in the scriptures and don’t consider it to be true, this doesn’t mean that it produces bad fruit and isn’t true, so you should just cast it aside. That’s not what Alma is talking about.

Experimenting on the word isn’t just reading about a teaching, thinking about it, maybe saying a prayer or two about it, and then you'll know with a perfect knowledge whether it is true or not.

You have to have genuine faith that it’s true, act on that faith, and then nourish that faith diligently for a long time. Most people don’t do this. Instead they cast out true teachings from the scriptures because of unbelief, resistance to the Holy Ghost, and failure to diligently nourish the seed. 

[Grug the Neanderthal]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

As to where gospel knowledge comes from, its origin is with God and He uses many means and instruments to convey it to His children.

Please share any individuals or groups of people who know about Jesus Christ and his gospel without ever having been taught this from the scriptures or from someone who ultimately got it from the scriptures. 

[Grug the Neanderthal]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

20 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I think I understand you just fine. The information you received prior to praying originally came from the scriptures/prophets, even though these were not cited. 

No, it did not.

Yes, the information you received prior to praying originally came from scriptures/prophets. Then you received additional knowledge by receiving an answer to your prayer:

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

I received no information concerning "what the Holy Ghost is or how to recognize how he confirms truth" prior to praying.

 

[CV75]

44 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Please share any individuals or groups of people who know about Jesus Christ and his gospel without ever having been taught this from the scriptures or from someone who ultimately got it from the scriptures. 

I offered this already: Posted 7 hours ago But it is so tangential to what I was describing as my experience concerning the Holy Ghost, I can only conclude that you do not wish to discuss my point.

So, my challenge to you is to share additional individuals or groups of people who wrote new scripture with uniquely new content / revelation concerning Jesus Christ, i.e., they did not have such scripture in their possession beforehand. Hint: I can think of a least a couple more, from our canon.

 

[CV75]

55 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Yes, the information you received prior to praying originally came from scriptures/prophets. Then you received additional knowledge by receiving an answer to your prayer:

 

You'll have to read it again, because even the snippet you included in your reply shows that I said the exact opposite. This is a great example of the effects of bias.

Edited March 20, 2023 by CV75

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

As for the rest, if you don’t like a certain teaching in the scriptures and don’t consider it to be true, this doesn’t mean that it produces bad fruit and isn’t true, so you should just cast it aside. That’s not what Alma is talking about.

Never said otherwise.

1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Experimenting on the word isn’t just reading about a teaching, thinking about it, maybe saying a prayer or two about it, and then you'll know with a perfect knowledge whether it is true or not.

Never said otherwise.

1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

You have to have genuine faith that it’s true, act on that faith, and then nourish that faith diligently for a long time. Most people don’t do this. Instead they cast out true teachings from the scriptures because of unbelief, resistance to the Holy Ghost, and failure to diligently nourish the seed. 

Act on "genuine faith that it is true" before the seed even sprouts?  How is that not blind faith?  (that is why I keep bringing it up - because you do).   Alma 32 speaks of nothing more than a desire to believe.  That is not even a genuine belief that it is true, but only a "desire to believe".  That is quite different from acting on "genuine faith that it's true".  

How long would you say someone should try the seed before they can cast it aside?  Seeds generally sprout up quite quickly - hence short missionary discussions before people commit to be baptized based on the sprouting, growth and enlightenment that causes them to know it is a good seed.  

 

[MiserereNobis]

3 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Experimenting on the word isn’t just reading about a teaching, thinking about it, maybe saying a prayer or two about it, and then you'll know with a perfect knowledge whether it is true or not.

You have to have genuine faith that it’s true, act on that faith, and then nourish that faith diligently for a long time.

Will you experiment in this manner with the teachings about and devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary? She has been a most important part of my faith — the fruit from my devotion to Her has been most sweet. Without Her, I would not have become a Christian. 

I’m quite willing to share basic teachings about Her for you to have faith in and simple devotional practices for you to act on if you’d like. 

[Grug the Neanderthal]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Will you experiment in this manner with the teachings about and devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary? She has been a most important part of my faith — the fruit from my devotion to Her has been most sweet. Without Her, I would not have become a Christian. 

I’m quite willing to share basic teachings about Her for you to have faith in and simple devotional practices for you to act on if you’d like. 

Can you show me from the scriptures where it says that we should venerate the Virgin Mary? 

[pogi]

7 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Can you show me from the scriptures where it says that we should venerate the Virgin Mary? 

I can show you from the prophets that the seeds we are to test come from more places than the scriptures and the prophets.  We have been counseled to find truth within religion (and from all religions) and without.  That requires testing seeds that are not taught in scriptures or by our prophets.  One of those seeds I have tested for myself from Catholicism that I KNOW is a good seed is contemplative prayer, for example. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by pogi

[Grug the Neanderthal]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

5 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

As for the rest, if you don’t like a certain teaching in the scriptures and don’t consider it to be true, this doesn’t mean that it produces bad fruit and isn’t true, so you should just cast it aside. That’s not what Alma is talking about.

Never said otherwise.

5 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Experimenting on the word isn’t just reading about a teaching, thinking about it, maybe saying a prayer or two about it, and then you'll know with a perfect knowledge whether it is true or not.

Never said otherwise.

Please explain to me exactly what you mean by experimenting on the word to see if it bears good fruit and at what point you decide to throw in the towel and cast it out when you don’t think it bears good fruit. 

3 hours ago, pogi said:

Act on "genuine faith that it is true" before the seed even sprouts?  How is that not blind faith?

It’s not blind faith. It’s just plain old genuine faith. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge and begins with little to no knowledge at all. You believe in the words in the scriptures or as delivered by the prophets. You then act in faith on these teachings and continue to nourish that faith until it becomes a perfect knowledge, which is a long process. 

3 hours ago, pogi said:

Alma 32 speaks of nothing more than a desire to believe.  That is not even a genuine belief that it is true, but only a "desire to believe".  That is quite different from acting on "genuine faith that it's true".  

No, Alma say that if all the faith you can muster is to have a desire to believe, then you START with that until you are able to act in genuine sincere faith that the teaching is true. Then you nourish this genuine faith until it grows stronger and stronger and eventually becomes perfect knowledge. 

3 hours ago, pogi said:

How long would you say someone should try the seed before they can cast it aside?  Seeds generally sprout up quite quickly - hence short missionary discussions before people commit to be baptized based on the sprouting, growth and enlightenment that causes them to know it is a good seed.  

How many investigators who meet with missionaries and are taught about testing the word in Alma 32 embrace the restored gospel? The majority reject it. Does this mean that the restored gospel isn’t true, that it’s bad fruit? No, it doesn’t. 

For some investigators it takes years to develop enough faith to accept the restored gospel and get baptized. For others they develop enough faith very quickly. And for many others they never gain the faith. Some meet with the missionaries for months or years and never gain enough faith. Others reject the message after only one or two meetings with the missionaries. 

The fact that an individual doesn’t see the good fruit, doesn’t mean that it’s false. The teachings in the scriptures are true. God will reveal the truth of the teachings in the scriptures to anyone and everyone if they plant the seed, don’t cast it out because of unbelief or resisting the Holy Ghost, or fail to nourish it with patience and diligence.

But few are willing to do this and so they never experience the good fruit for themselves and end up casting out the most precious truths as a thing of naught. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal

[Grug the Neanderthal]

40 minutes ago, pogi said:

I can show you from the prophets that the seeds we are to test come from more places than the scriptures and the prophets.  We have been counseled to find truth within religion (and from all religions) and without.  That requires testing seeds that are not taught in scriptures or by our prophets.  One of those seeds I have tested for myself from Catholicism that I KNOW is a good seed is contemplative prayer, for example. 

So no, you can’t show me where it says that we should venerate the Virgin Mary in the scriptures.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

So no, you can’t show me where it says that we should venerate the Virgin Mary in the scriptures.

Why does that matter?  Nobody is claiming it is in the scriptures that I can see.   So will you answer his question now?

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

Can you show me from the scriptures where it says that we should venerate the Virgin Mary? 

If you are saying we need to see something in our scriptures before we pray about it and experiment upon it, how does that work for those who don’t see the Book of Mormon as scripture or for those who don’t believe in the Bible?

[mfbukowski]

16 hours ago, california boy said:

Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Taoism, Jainism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism,  Baháʼí Faith, Shinto, Sikhism, Cheondoism, to name just a handful.   They have about as much knowledge of the Bible as you have of their sacred writings and beliefs.  

This is innacurate,fyi.

Zoroastrian magis came to see Jesus at birth, and were awaiting savior's, and some actually argue that Judaism evolved from Zoroastrianism, the oldest monotheistic religion.

Islam of course uses portions of what is now part of what we call the Old Testament, and sees Jesus as a prophet, just not the last prophet.

Same with Bahai. 

And Judaism? No Bible knowledge?

Clearly innacurate