The Pursuit of Happiness

[pogi]

I watched this documentary on Netflix about the mission and combined efforts to inspire joy by Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama.   I found it very inspirational and it got me thinking a lot about joy and our own doctrines about it: 

Joy/happiness seems to be the central purpose of our existence, according to our doctrine:

“Men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:15, 25).

The Prophet Joseph stated, “Happiness is the object and design of our existence"

God's plan for our salvation is often called “the great plan of happiness” (Alma 42:8).

Joy and happiness are often used interchangeably, as seen in the above quotes.  Often joy is described as an overall undercurrent and grounding sense of well-being and life satisfaction that endures the ups and downs of life, while happiness is a more fleeting experience in the moment that comes and goes.   I am assuming that under these descriptions, the ultimate purpose and object of life is the more enduring joy which can bring increased experience of happiness as well.  

With joy being the ultimate purpose of our existence it seems rather important to talk about and discuss what it is, how we receive it, and how to be fulfilled in that ultimate purpose of existence.

What are your thoughts?

I have done some study on this subject in relation to what our church teaches, and find one overarching principle whenever joy/happiness is discussed and taught - that obedience to the commandments = joy.       

Happiness is defined in the Book of Mormon by the prophet-king Benjamin as “the blessed and happy state of those [that] keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual."   

In that description happiness, or joy, seems to be transactional in nature, with undertones of prosperity gospel. 

I have known many members who have fallen victim to the belief that if they can just work harder, be more obedient, sacrifice more of themselves and their time for the benefit of others, put their shoulder more to the wheel, be more perfect in following the commandments that they will become more joyful and happy in mortality.  It doesn't always work, and can even have pretty terrible consequences on well-being overall.  Is the promised joy for obedience only a promise for the next life, or does the promise extend to mortality as well?

My personal feeling is that joy, as a state of mind, is more about internal perspective and thought processes - it is generated more from how we see/interpret the world and our experience in it.  Sometimes obedience can influence the way we perceive the world for the better and thus improve joy, but it doesn't seem to always work that way.  My question is should we be emphasizing external actions of obedience in order to find happiness, or would it be more efficacious to emphasize the nurturing of our inner world/perceptions to improve external behavior and happiness?    That is why psilocybin is thought to be as effective as it is in improving happiness/joy/well-being after just one dose - because it works to have long-term effects on our thought processes and how we perceive the world and our place in it.  The results can be pretty remarkable and seem to result in long-term joy rather than fleeting happiness, and no obedience to commandments are required.   However, it does have the effect of influencing many to live and practice a more spiritually oriented life.  By changing their internal environment, their external behaviors are improved.   Meditation has been shown to have similar results to psilocybin but with more work and discipline required to improving our internal world/perspectives/mind-set. 

By chasing happiness/joy by improving obedience, I can see how this might lead to harmful perfectionistic tendencies and self-shaming mindset when happiness/joy is not achieved despite sacrificing all that they have in them to give to obedience.  I think of the way the church teaches joy/happiness a lot like my experience in addiction recovery.  The focus for many is on sobriety.  That is the ultimate goal.  If we can just be sober, we will be happy.  That is what I thought for many years.  I had perfect sobriety for several years on my mission and post mission.  What I found is that it didn't make me happier.  Instead, I simply practiced different unhealthy coping mechanisms that leaned towards perfectionism.  In other words, I didn't find healing and happiness/joy until I stopped focusing on doing better and being more obedient/perfect in sobriety and instead focused on healing my internal world.  As a result, sobriety came without other maladaptive coping mechanisms to take its place.   I see the pursuit of happiness much in the same way.  Change your inner world to improve happiness/joy, and improved obedience to the commandments will be a more likely result. 

I am not quite sure how to form this into a cohesive thought or question, but hope that it can generate some thoughts for discussion.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by pogi

[CV75]

48 minutes ago, pogi said:

I watched this documentary on Netflix about the mission and combined efforts to inspire joy by Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama.   I found it very inspirational and it got me thinking a lot about joy and our own doctrines about it: 

Joy/happiness seems to be the central purpose of our existence, according to our doctrine:

“Men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:15, 25).

The Prophet Joseph stated, “Happiness is the object and design of our existence"

God's plan for our salvation is often called “the great plan of happiness” (Alma 42:8).

Joy and happiness are often used interchangeably, as seen in the above quotes.  Often joy is described as an overall undercurrent and grounding sense of well-being and life satisfaction that endures the ups and downs of life, while happiness is a more fleeting experience in the moment that comes and goes.   I am assuming that under these descriptions, the ultimate purpose and object of life is the more enduring joy which can bring increased experience of happiness as well.  

With joy being the ultimate purpose of our existence it seems rather important to talk about and discuss what it is, how we receive it, and how to be fulfilled in that ultimate purpose of existence.

What are your thoughts?

I have done some study on this subject in relation to what our church teaches, and find one overarching principle whenever joy/happiness is discussed and taught - that obedience to God's commandments and the gospel is the only path to joy.       

Happiness is defined in the Book of Mormon by the prophet-king Benjamin as “the blessed and happy state of those [that] keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual."   

In that description, happiness, or joy, seems to be transactional in nature, with undertones of prosperity gospel.  Is joy/happiness born of external behaviors of obedience to rules and laws?

I have known many members who have fallen victim to the belief that if they can just work harder, be more obedient, sacrifice more of themselves and their time for the benefit of others, put their shoulder more to the wheel, be more perfect in following the commandments that they will become more joyful and happy in mortality.  It doesn't always work, and can even have pretty terrible consequences on well-being overall.  Is the promised joy for obedience only a promise for the next life, or does the promise extend to mortality as well?

My personal feeling is that joy, as a state of mind, is more about internal perspective and thought processes - it is generated more from how we see/interpret the world and our experience in it.  Sometimes obedience can influence the way we perceive the world for the better and thus improve joy, but it doesn't seem to always work that way.  My question is should we be emphasizing external actions of obedience in order to find happiness, or would it be more efficacious to emphasize the nurturing of our inner world/perceptions to improve external behavior and happiness?    That is why psilocybin is thought to be as effective as it is in improving happiness/joy/well-being after just one dose - because it works to have long-term effects on our thought processes and how we perceive the world and our place in it.  The results can be pretty remarkable and seem to result in long-term joy rather than fleeting happiness, and no obedience to commandments are required.   However, it does have the effect of influencing many to live and practice a more spiritually oriented life.  By changing their internal environment, their external behaviors are improved.   Meditation has been shown to have similar results to psilocybin but with more work and discipline required to improving our internal world/perspectives/mind-set. 

By chasing happiness/joy by improving obedience, I can see how this might lead to harmful perfectionistic tendencies and self-shaming mindset when happiness/joy is not achieved despite sacrificing all that they have in them to give to obedience.  I think of the way the church teaches joy/happiness a lot like my experience in addiction recovery.  The focus for many is on sobriety.  That is the ultimate goal.  If we can just be sober, we will be happy.  That is what I thought for many years.  I had perfect sobriety for several years on my mission and post mission.  What I found is that it didn't make me happier.  Instead, I simply practiced different unhealthy coping mechanisms that leaned towards perfectionism.  In other words, I didn't find healing and happiness/joy until I stopped focusing on doing better and being more obedient/perfect in sobriety and instead focused on healing my internal world.  As a result, sobriety came without other maladaptive coping mechanisms to take its place.   I see the pursuit of happiness much in the same way.  Change your inner world to improve happiness/joy, and improved obedience to the commandments will be a more likely result. 

I am not quite sure how to form this into a cohesive thought or question, but hope that it can generate some thoughts for discussion.  

I consider the first commandment to love a Being we cannot see to be anything but transactional, and the second is like unto it. Fundamentally loving God is done without thinking about it (is light is manifest through all His creations, even infants) but we build intentionality as we discover patterns between what we perceive, do and feel. Happiness fits in, in my opinion, not as a reward or even a consequence, but as an aspect of love (much as faith is an aspect of knowledge and vice-versa). Hence the use of the word “state” to describe what it is, as a state of obedience.

I think this is why people without a belief in or testimony of the restored gospel might quit over finding temple recommend interviews to be intrusive (for example; but any kind of such accountability), or their efforts to be perfect not resulting in validation from others, or even private satisfaction. And why they might favor meditation and other alternatives practices to the restored gospel more joyous.

[Tacenda]

56 minutes ago, pogi said:

I watched this documentary on Netflix about the mission and combined efforts to inspire joy by Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama.   I found it very inspirational and it got me thinking a lot about joy and our own doctrines about it: 

Joy/happiness seems to be the central purpose of our existence, according to our doctrine:

“Men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:15, 25).

The Prophet Joseph stated, “Happiness is the object and design of our existence"

God's plan for our salvation is often called “the great plan of happiness” (Alma 42:8).

Joy and happiness are often used interchangeably, as seen in the above quotes.  Often joy is described as an overall undercurrent and grounding sense of well-being and life satisfaction that endures the ups and downs of life, while happiness is a more fleeting experience in the moment that comes and goes.   I am assuming that under these descriptions, the ultimate purpose and object of life is the more enduring joy which can bring increased experience of happiness as well.  

With joy being the ultimate purpose of our existence it seems rather important to talk about and discuss what it is, how we receive it, and how to be fulfilled in that ultimate purpose of existence.

What are your thoughts?

I have done some study on this subject in relation to what our church teaches, and find one overarching principle whenever joy/happiness is discussed and taught - that obedience to the commandments = joy.       

Happiness is defined in the Book of Mormon by the prophet-king Benjamin as “the blessed and happy state of those [that] keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual."   

In that description happiness, or joy, seems to be transactional in nature, with undertones of prosperity gospel. 

I have known many members who have fallen victim to the belief that if they can just work harder, be more obedient, sacrifice more of themselves and their time for the benefit of others, put their shoulder more to the wheel, be more perfect in following the commandments that they will become more joyful and happy in mortality.  It doesn't always work, and can even have pretty terrible consequences on well-being overall.  Is the promised joy for obedience only a promise for the next life, or does the promise extend to mortality as well?

My personal feeling is that joy, as a state of mind, is more about internal perspective and thought processes - it is generated more from how we see/interpret the world and our experience in it.  Sometimes obedience can influence the way we perceive the world for the better and thus improve joy, but it doesn't seem to always work that way.  My question is should we be emphasizing external actions of obedience in order to find happiness, or would it be more efficacious to emphasize the nurturing of our inner world/perceptions to improve external behavior and happiness?    That is why psilocybin is thought to be as effective as it is in improving happiness/joy/well-being after just one dose - because it works to have long-term effects on our thought processes and how we perceive the world and our place in it.  The results can be pretty remarkable and seem to result in long-term joy rather than fleeting happiness, and no obedience to commandments are required.   However, it does have the effect of influencing many to live and practice a more spiritually oriented life.  By changing their internal environment, their external behaviors are improved.   Meditation has been shown to have similar results to psilocybin but with more work and discipline required to improving our internal world/perspectives/mind-set. 

By chasing happiness/joy by improving obedience, I can see how this might lead to harmful perfectionistic tendencies and self-shaming mindset when happiness/joy is not achieved despite sacrificing all that they have in them to give to obedience.  I think of the way the church teaches joy/happiness a lot like my experience in addiction recovery.  The focus for many is on sobriety.  That is the ultimate goal.  If we can just be sober, we will be happy.  That is what I thought for many years.  I had perfect sobriety for several years on my mission and post mission.  What I found is that it didn't make me happier.  Instead, I simply practiced different unhealthy coping mechanisms that leaned towards perfectionism.  In other words, I didn't find healing and happiness/joy until I stopped focusing on doing better and being more obedient/perfect in sobriety and instead focused on healing my internal world.  As a result, sobriety came without other maladaptive coping mechanisms to take its place.   I see the pursuit of happiness much in the same way.  Change your inner world to improve happiness/joy, and improved obedience to the commandments will be a more likely result. 

I am not quite sure how to form this into a cohesive thought or question, but hope that it can generate some thoughts for discussion.  

Excellent thoughts Pogi! I listened to Elder and Sister Holland's talks to the youth recently and liked what Sister Holland said. She mentioned as she looks back on her life, if she could do anything different she'd simplify. She regrets most that she didn't see the simple beauty of the Gospel. She said in her youth she made the gospel too complex, and felt it was too overwhelming, too difficult, and sometimes too mysterious. As a young adult she said she had to climb a mountain of righteousness, go through a fiery furnace of purification and unravel every doctrinal controversy known to mankind. And she thought she had to do this to be acceptable to God. She said that a person once said that people do not join the Christians because they wear their religion like a headache, like a crown of thorns.  And there is only one person that had to wear that crown of thorns so that we could live joyfully and abundantly. (I listened to these parts again to relay her message since I thought it was so good!) I recommend listening to her full talk, it was wonderful and I think it's what you're trying to say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KM59B17780

 

[ksfisher]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

She mentioned as she looks back on her life, if she could do anything different she'd simplify. She regrets most that she didn't see the simple beauty of the Gospel. She said in her youth she made the gospel too complex, and felt it was too overwhelming, too difficult, and sometimes too mysterious. As a young adult she said she had to climb a mountain of righteousness, go through a fiery furnace of purification and unravel every doctrinal controversy known to mankind. And she thought she had to do this to be acceptable to God.

I think a lot of people are this way.  As we get older we realize what really is important to us.  Part of what makes being young so difficult is that we lack the wisdom and experience to be able to identify that. 

[pogi]

33 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Happiness fits in, in my opinion, not as a reward or even a consequence, but as an aspect of love

I like that.

[Dario_M]

14 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I think a lot of people are this way.  As we get older we realize what really is important to us.  Part of what makes being young so difficult is that we lack the wisdom and experience to be able to identify that. 

Well... i only see this in the church a lot actually (but even in the church there are people that still don't understand this concept).

If i take a good look on other parts of this world on the street, supermarket, trainstation, etc, i don't experience much love or understanding at all. I only see people who are selvish, angry, ignorant, total lack of wisdom or anything else, judgemental behavoir, and sometimes even agression. A lot of people don't really understand what love really means.

Even if i look into my own family situation i see some of them  that don't seem to understand what real love really means. 

I don't see that many happy people actually. Especially after this horible corona pandemic i see more unhappy people than happy people. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Dario_M

[pogi]

18 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Excellent thoughts Pogi! I listened to Elder and Sister Holland's talks to the youth recently and liked what Sister Holland said. She mentioned as she looks back on her life, if she could do anything different she'd simplify. She regrets most that she didn't see the simple beauty of the Gospel. She said in her youth she made the gospel too complex, and felt it was too overwhelming, too difficult, and sometimes too mysterious. As a young adult she said she had to climb a mountain of righteousness, go through a fiery furnace of purification and unravel every doctrinal controversy known to mankind. And she thought she had to do this to be acceptable to God. She said that a person once said that people do not join the Christians because they wear their religion like a headache, like a crown of thorns.  And there is only one person that had to wear that crown of thorns so that we could live joyfully and abundantly. (I listened to these parts again to relay her message since I thought it was so good!) I recommend listening to her full talk, it was wonderful and I think it's what you're trying to say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KM59B17780

 

Thanks for sharing.  Very good thoughts.  

Sister Hollands perfectionistic tendencies and perceptions in her earlier life are not unique in the church.  I am wondering how a different approach, without abandoning core doctrines/principles might alleviate so much unnecessary suffering and misconceptions about joy and love and divorce them from this idea that happiness can be found through doing more or working harder at external obedience to the commandments. 

[pogi]

30 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I think a lot of people are this way.  As we get older we realize what really is important to us.  Part of what makes being young so difficult is that we lack the wisdom and experience to be able to identify that. 

Do you think it is something that we can teach better to younger generations?  

What are we teaching that is contributing to these unhealthy beliefs/perspectives, and what can we do to help future generations avoid the same pitfalls and harmful perceptions?

 

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

Do you think it is something that we can teach better to younger generations?  

What are we teaching that is contributing to these unhealthy beliefs/perspectives, and what can we do to help future generations avoid the same pitfalls and harmful perceptions?

 

I don't think it's something that can really be taught.  I think there are some things that just need to be experiences for us to properly understand their place in our lives.

For example, now that I'm older I look back on the experiences I had with my children when they were young.  I wish I could have all the good experiences over again!  I'd certainly, in hindsight, shift my focus on a few things.

 

[The Nehor]

A burning desire and need for happiness is probably one of the quickest routes to crippling depression.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

I think a lot of people are this way.  As we get older we realize what really is important to us.  Part of what makes being young so difficult is that we lack the wisdom and experience to be able to identify that. 

I think that is the purpose of mortality.  In the presence of God how could we not be uplifted and happy and have the vast majority of our needs satisfied.  We would have had the ultimate comfort.  Just as children need to go off and do adult things on their own where there is risk involved and mom and dad aren’t right there to catch you when falling, we need to leave the presence of God and encounter good and bad, take risks, fail, succeed, hurt and heal, and all of that cycle to figure out what is really important to us eternally.

[pogi]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A burning desire and need for happiness is probably one of the quickest routes to crippling depression.

I think it all depends on how one perceives it and pursues it.  Most people who think that it can be found "out there" are going to be pretty frustrated though.

[manol]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

As we get older we realize what really is important to us.  Part of what makes being young so difficult is that we lack the wisdom and experience to be able to identify that. 

"Good judgment is the product of wisdom.  Wisdom is the product of experience.  And experience is the product of bad judgment."  (my recollection of a Vaughn J. Featherstone quote)

[pogi]

56 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think that is the purpose of mortality.  In the presence of God how could we not be uplifted and happy and have the vast majority of our needs satisfied.  We would have had the ultimate comfort.  Just as children need to go off and do adult things on their own where there is risk involved and mom and dad aren’t right there to catch you when falling, we need to leave the presence of God and encounter good and bad, take risks, fail, succeed, hurt and heal, and all of that cycle to figure out what is really important to us eternally.

Totally agree.  

But I think there are ways we can contribute to maladaptive behaviors and perfectionistic tendencies in the way we teach the gospel/obedience, and there are ways that we can help others avoid these attitudes/tendencies and unnecessary hardships that sister Holland experienced in her younger years.

Yes, we all need to fail, learn and grow into adulthood and maturity by making mistakes, but I think a lot of it is unnecessary and avoidable.   Falling is a part of life, but we don't need to push our kids down (I know that is not what anyone is suggesting).

This striving for perfection may or may not have led to depression for sister Holland (it has for SO MANY), but it certainly contributed to her unhappiness and loss of satisfaction in life.  For her, it was born in the idea that she was not acceptable to God unless she was doing more, in some way.  We are a very exterior "doing/work" oriented culture, which has its value and place.  But I think that it is not uncommon for us to miss the core principles of happiness in all of the doing that we do.  For example, sometimes I think we get so lost in the work of service to others that we forget to stop and actually bond/connect with the people we are serving - then we get confused as to why we are unhappy when we are DOING everything we are taught in sacrificing so much for the welfare of others by making them meals when they are sick, offering blessings, checking off the box of ministering for the month, etc. etc. etc.  In all of the good doing, we are often missing out on the human connection which can come from service, and is one of the greatest sources of joy, but we are too lost in the work; the to-do list.  The toxic "I should always strive to do better tomorrow then today, ad infinitum" impossible mindset. 

"If I am unhappy, I must not be DOING enough".  "I must be sinning in some way".  "I must be unworthy and unrighteous of happiness if it comes through obedience." "I need to WORK harder at doing good things, then I'll be happy."  "I must not be losing myself enough in service to others or placing other's first enough."  The way we teach the gospel and our culture can all contribute to these harmful mindsets. 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by pogi

[The Nehor]

Have some tidbits from the quotes I use to motivate myself:

“Every dead body on Mt. Everest was once a highly motivated person, so… maybe calm down.”

“Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.”

“If life doesn’t break you today, don’t worry. It will try again tomorrow.”

“A thousand-mile journey starts with one step. Then again, so does falling in a ditch and breaking your neck.”

“If at first, you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.”

“Just because you are unique doesn't mean you are useful.”

“Today is the first day of the rest of your life. But so was yesterday, and look how that turned out.”

“Nothing says ‘you’re a loser’ more than owning a motivational poster about being a winner.”

“Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.”

“The meaning of life is to find your gift. So good luck with that.”

 

And my favorite:

“Your life can’t fall apart if you never had it together.”

[The Nehor]

Oh, and how to be happy. Live in this world:

 

[Buckwheat]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Oh, and how to be happy. Live in this world:

 

Funny!

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Excellent thoughts Pogi! I listened to Elder and Sister Holland's talks to the youth recently and liked what Sister Holland said. She mentioned as she looks back on her life, if she could do anything different she'd simplify. She regrets most that she didn't see the simple beauty of the Gospel. She said in her youth she made the gospel too complex, and felt it was too overwhelming, too difficult, and sometimes too mysterious. As a young adult she said she had to climb a mountain of righteousness, go through a fiery furnace of purification and unravel every doctrinal controversy known to mankind. And she thought she had to do this to be acceptable to God. She said that a person once said that people do not join the Christians because they wear their religion like a headache, like a crown of thorns.  And there is only one person that had to wear that crown of thorns so that we could live joyfully and abundantly. (I listened to these parts again to relay her message since I thought it was so good!) I recommend listening to her full talk, it was wonderful and I think it's what you're trying to say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KM59B17780

 

+ 1

[Rain]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Thanks for sharing.  Very good thoughts.  

Sister Hollands perfectionistic tendencies and perceptions in her earlier life are not unique in the church.  I am wondering how a different approach, without abandoning core doctrines/principles might alleviate so much unnecessary suffering and misconceptions about joy and love and divorce them from this idea that happiness can be found through doing more or working harder at external obedience to the commandments. 

I think a big part of the problem is we have so often taught applications as doctrines and principles. There are 10 trillion applications and if we think we have to live all of them we will never be satisfied let alone be happy.  We have to make sure it is the doctrines and principles we internalize, not the applications.

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

Happiness fits in, in my opinion, not as a reward or even a consequence, but as an aspect of love (much as faith is an aspect of knowledge and vice-versa). Hence the use of the word “state” to describe what it is, as a state of obedience.

This. Endlessly ticking 'commandment' boxes without love for God as the driving force is both mind-numbing and soul-destroying and leads to burn-out.

Likewise, endlessly trying to 'serve' others without authentically loving them has the same result.

And if love isn't the reason for our obedience and service, then the real reason -- whatever it is -- is inevitably a 'selfish' one ... including supposedly 'perfecting' oneself.

Two scriptures come to mind.

After Jesus washes the apostles' feet in John 13, He says the following in verses 15 and 17: 'For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you ... If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them'.

And then there's Paul in 1 Corinthians 13: 'Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing'.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Hamba Tuhan

[CV75]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Totally agree.  

But I think there are ways we can contribute to maladaptive behaviors and perfectionistic tendencies in the way we teach the gospel/obedience, and there are ways that we can help others avoid these attitudes/tendencies and unnecessary hardships that sister Holland experienced in her younger years.

Yes, we all need to fail, learn and grow into adulthood and maturity by making mistakes, but I think a lot of it is unnecessary and avoidable.   Falling is a part of life, but we don't need to push our kids down (I know that is not what anyone is suggesting).

This striving for perfection may or may not have led to depression for sister Holland (it has for SO MANY), but it certainly contributed to her unhappiness and loss of satisfaction in life.  For her, it was born in the idea that she was not acceptable to God unless she was doing more, in some way.  We are a very exterior "doing/work" oriented culture, which has its value and place.  But I think that it is not uncommon for us to miss the core principles of happiness in all of the doing that we do.  For example, sometimes I think we get so lost in the work of service to others that we forget to stop and actually bond/connect with the people we are serving - then we get confused as to why we are unhappy when we are DOING everything we are taught in sacrificing so much for the welfare of others by making them meals when they are sick, offering blessings, checking off the box of ministering for the month, etc. etc. etc.  In all of the good doing, we are often missing out on the human connection which can come from service, and is one of the greatest sources of joy, but we are too lost in the work; the to-do list.  The toxic "I should always strive to do better tomorrow then today, ad infinitum" impossible mindset. 

"If I am unhappy, I must not be DOING enough".  "I must be sinning in some way".  "I must be unworthy and unrighteous of happiness if it comes through obedience." "I need to WORK harder at doing good things, then I'll be happy."  "I must not be losing myself enough in service to others or placing other's first enough."  The way we teach the gospel and our culture can all contribute to these harmful mindsets. 

 

Since the gospel is for every kind of personality, I think this kind of misery, and its opposites (passiveness, apathy), are but two of many. Evidently this kind of misery is of great interest since it comes up quite a bit. One item in the introductory pages of Come Follow Me sets the desired tone for the Church: Conversion Is Our Goal (churchofjesuschrist.org)

“…we should first and foremost seek the companionship of the Spirit [in my opinion, evidenced by having love for God]. This goal should govern our choices and guide our thoughts and actions. We should seek after whatever invites the influence of the Spirit and reject whatever drives that influence away—for we know that if we can be worthy of the presence of the Holy Ghost, we can also be worthy to live in the presence of Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ [whom we love].”

If any of this, or similar messages in Church media, produce misery (in this case, fear or anxiety for anyone prone to perfectionism), they have people around them -- since the gospel is for every kind of personality, some of whom are oriented to interpret such messages [as bracketed] -- that can help them recognize the influence of the Spirit, which they have a right to access, and drive away the influences for unhappiness.

On the whole, I think the different intermingling personalities can be mutually beneficial when bonded together in love. I've seen some people glory in their endearing need for grace, but they would be happier if they were helped to find it.

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 minutes ago, CV75 said:

On the whole, I think the different intermingling personalities can be mutually beneficial when bonded together in love.

Once again, this! It is one of the central reasons the Lord organises us into congregations and instructs us to worship, learn, and serve together.

[CV75]

8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This. Endlessly ticking 'commandment' boxes without love of God as the driving force is both mind-numbing and soul-destroying and leads to burn-out.

Likewise, endlessly trying to 'serve' others without authentically loving them has the same result. (And if one thinks about it, if love for others isn't the reason for our service, then the real reason is inevitably a 'selfish' one.)

Two scriptures come to mind.

After Jesus washes the apostles' feet in John 13, He says the following in verses 15 and 17: 'For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you ... If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them'.

And then there's Paul in 1 Corinthians 13: 'Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing'.

If "state" means "condition", it seems to me that the "state of happiness" is conditional, but conditional on the presence of love in our relationship with God so that our works bring out this deeper, spiritual meaning and broader / more varied manifestation.

[The Nehor]

49 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

Funny!

It is Taco Tuesday so seemed to fit.

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

I have done some study on this subject in relation to what our church teaches, and find one overarching principle whenever joy/happiness is discussed and taught - that obedience to the commandments = joy.       

I think that has some links to the paradigm these Mormons call "the Plan of Happiness"  

That is why it is THE best paradigm for humans, ever conceived, making our faith THE "true church"

We are redeemed from sin, and are here to experiment with what makes us truly happy, by ceasing doing and then avoiding what causes unhappiness- aka "sin" and then spend eternity in bliss.

What could be a better paradigm?

Using reason alone IMO there could not be a better paradigm