Testimony meeting

[bluebell]

23 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I find testimony meeting to be one of the better sacrament meetings. If nothing else, it helps the bishopric know who not to assign for a talk or recommend to the high council.

Seriously, though, while I've seen plenty of testimonies go off the rails, the "hit ratio" for testimonies in my stake is at least as high as the ratio for talks in general. 

Since we're in December, I'll relate one of my horror stories.  Early 1980s - testimony meeting in December. I'm in primary. Nice elderly sister begins her testimony "We believe in being honest. Children, your parents have been lying to you." Then goes on for 2 minutes about santa claus. My mother still says when recanting this story "if you think sacrament meeting was rough, you should have seen the aftermath in relief society." That is all.

 

Oh I so wish I could have seen that RS meeting!  

[Durangout]

We’ll, at least F&T meeting is better than when the HC / stake auxiliaries speak.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics.

My ward's testimony meetings are awesome! They're my favourite Sunday of the month -- the kinds of meetings I wish non-member friends got to experience more often.

We have had some issues in the distant past, but we just tackled those consistently and with love, and they're pretty much gone.

[bsjkki]

5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

My ward's testimony meetings are awesome! They're my favourite Sunday of the month -- the kinds of meetings I wish non-member friends got to experience more often.

We have had some issues in the distant past, but we just tackled those consistently and with love, and they're pretty much gone.

What did you do to tackle the issue?

[bsjkki]

24 minutes ago, Ambrosia said:

The value of testimony meetings, to me, is directly connected to how well they help me get to know other people.  Each person who shares his or her testimony is telling me more about himself or herself. What he/she thinks and believes, and often some of their current activities.  Is it supposed to be for some purpose other than to help us get to know those people who share their testimony?  Even if I don't believe what they say it is still a way for me to get to know what they think and believe and claim to know.  When I share my own testimony it isn't because I want to hear myself.  I share my testimony so that other people can better get to know me, including what I think and believe and claim to know of what I am talking about. 

I appreciate being able to learn about other people.

This is not the stated purpose. I can see how some might value the opportunity to use the meeting that way. But, I can see how some would find that annoying. Maybe more socials and get together for that purpose. 

[Peacefully]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Just be sure to also write down the really good stuff so you don’t end up focusing only on what bothers you and it gets inflated (not saying that is why you are writing them down, it sounds more like you are trying to get to the root of why something bothers you so it won’t bother you anymore eventually, but that will take time, so I think you still need balance).  It is easy to choose a focus that then filters out important context.  For example, after years of discussing criticism and how to frame arguments for and against, I have to work at not listening to talks from a more apologetic focus with my mind going to “that’s wrong” or “that’s going to be taken the wrong way” and that can shut down the spiritual voice that otherwise often attends them for me or even the ability to think of the talk as a way to get to know the speaker better because I focus too much on minutiae.

Good call! 

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

When I was a youth, I often would just read the scriptures during bad talks and testimonies.  Now it is something different.

I think it started about 10 years ago or so at a church worldwide training broadcast.  One of the GAs (I think it was an apostle) said the purpose of church meetings was to help the members to have spiritual experiences.  Even if there is a poor teacher, a person can still gain spiritually from something. 

Not long after we had a talk in sacrament meeting.   It was the worst one I ever heard.   The newly married was so annoying and self absorbed and her talk was narcissistic and completely non scriptural.

Not long after this talk, I realized I had the wrong attitude during and after this talk.   Yes, this clueless annoying person gave an empty talk with no redeeming values on the surface, but even this horrible talk was a vehicle for the Holy Ghost.

Since then I try to put myself in the attitude of being open to listen and to feel the Holy Ghost.   Even during the worst talks, lessons, and testimonies, I feel like I benefit. 

 

We talked about this before in the Ben Spackman's Thoughts on Sunday School thread (also started by bsjkki), and in that thread it reminded me of Elder Richard G. Scott's October 2009 conference talk, "To Acquire Spiritual Guidance", where he recounted his experience with two different teachers (one good, and one bad) and how he learned something important and benefited from both experiences.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

ISome were unforgettable for all the right reasons and some...like this woman that spoke in Sac Mtg and during it her cell phone rang, cell phones were rare at the time, and she answered during her talk and carried on a conversation, haha. It was like she planned it and wanted to impress. She could have at least had it be an object lesson, lol.

That is just weird.  I would be wondering if she was a caregiver to her parents or on call for work as a nurse.  If it was clear from the conversation it wasn’t, I would likely be avoiding the woman in the future (the arrogance of flaunting wealth is a real annoyance for me and it tends to go along with superficiality, snobbery, and self centeredness in my experience and I find it hard to interact comfortably with those).

Edited December 5, 2022 by Calm

[Buckeye]

55 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is not the stated purpose. I can see how some might value the opportunity to use the meeting that way. But, I can see how some would find that annoying. Maybe more socials and get together for that purpose. 

I see the purpose as tying us to others, albeit in limited gospel topics. I don't find value in travelmonies. But I do find value when someone says "I have a testimony of the WOW because of ..." and then shares an appropriate life experience. As much as I love Elder Maxwell, if all that happened in testimony meeting was that everyone repeated the same basic elements - God lives, BOM is true, Joseph was a prophet, Church is true - without any elaboration or tying those testimonies to something real, well testimony meeting would be very very boring. 

I approach testimonies from the vantage of lawyer. The witness needs to state what they saw or believe, but crucially must give evidence in support. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

What did you do to tackle the issue?

A number of the standard things: reminders from the member of the bishopric conducting the meeting, discussions in 5th Sunday meetings about what testimony meeting is supposed to accomplish and how to get there, etc.

One of our most effective approaches was a bit unconventional. Back when I was serving as Young Men president, I would pick up several boys and take them to church every week. During one long, incoherent 'testimony', one of the boys, squirming in discomfort, whispered, 'We need a Terry Tate in this ward!'

I had no idea who Terry Tate was, so after church he showed me some of the TV spots on YouTube:

We laughed and laughed and laughed. But then he said, 'No, really. I'm serious. Tell Bishop I'm happy to tackle anyone who misuses testimony meeting'.

I promised him I would, and I did. Bishop loved the idea ... but of course we had to come up with something a bit different to tackling. The solution, developed in consultation with the boys, was our Young Men testimony enforcement team. This is how it worked: if someone started wandering off during a testimony, one of the boys would get up in the middle of it, walk in front of the pulpit, and sit directly behind the speaker. If that didn't work, another boy would stand up, walk in front of the pulpit and sit next to the first boy. And so on. I think we only had to use three boys on a few occasions. Very few people are comfortable using testimony meeting as a personal 'group therapy session' when there are three young men fidgeting directly behind them, impatiently waiting for their turn at the pulpit!

Then the boys on the stand would each stand up in turn and share a brief, appropriate testimony as a model.

This pattern has now become so ingrained in our ward that, if any 'testimony' starts to go off the rails, multiple people will stand up, walk in front of the pulpit, and form a queue behind the speaker. To be honest, it's very rarely needed anymore!

A sweet experience from this past Sunday: near the end of our sacrament meeting, a 67-year-old man stood up to share his testimony. He said he recognised only four faces in the congregation, but he let the rest of us know that he had been baptised in our chapel 53 years ago. At age 14, he had left home to take up an apprenticeship in our city, met the missionaries, started coming to church, and got baptised. He admitted that the society of the Saints had been a big part of that early decision, but he bore a powerful witness of what the Restored Gospel has meant in his life over the past five-plus decades. 'It's true', he said; 'it's all true!'

ETA: I just LOL-ed when I realised you'd asked me what we did to 'tackle the issue'!

Edited December 6, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I see the purpose as tying us to others, albeit in limited gospel topics. I don't find value in travelmonies. But I do find value when someone says "I have a testimony of the WOW because of ..." and then shares an appropriate life experience. As much as I love Elder Maxwell, if all that happened in testimony meeting was that everyone repeated the same basic elements - God lives, BOM is true, Joseph was a prophet, Church is true - without any elaboration or tying those testimonies to something real, well testimony meeting would be very very boring. 

I approach testimonies from the vantage of lawyer. The witness needs to state what they saw or believe, but crucially must give evidence in support. 

I'm out of rep points but I agree completely.

I get the most out of testimonies that talk about what they believe and why they believe, and/or what is going on in their lives that has caused them to have the desire to share their beliefs.  I also love when someone gets up and is just so incredibly honest about where they are spiritually but still claims ownership in the community in some way

We had a sister on Sunday (who was just called as the YWs president) who got up and said that she doesn't know if the church is true or not, but she believes it is and that it's ok not to "know" everything.  I loved that.  The last testimony borne yesterday was from a 20 something kid who is trying to figure out his life, and he testified about how he had been reading some scriptures this week and they had helped him increase his knowledge about the gospel, even though there was still a lot he was unsure of.  A couple of months ago we had a man who stood up the sunday after his daughter's baptism (I think it was the first or second time that I had ever seen him there) and explained how he hadn't been living the teachings of the church but he had a testimony and he was going to change so that the next time one of his kids was baptized, he could be the one to do it.  

He's been at church every sunday since.

[Hamba Tuhan]

28 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I approach testimonies from the vantage of lawyer. The witness needs to state what they saw or believe, but crucially must give evidence in support. 

This is what I love most too: the personal whys behind it. In my testimony this past Sunday, I bore witness that God is a God of miracles. Very briefly, I mentioned that I have participated in restoring sight to the blind and breath to the lifeless, but I have also experienced something even more miraculous: the changing of my heart and my 'essential' nature through the atoning power of Jesus Christ.

[blackstrap]

Out of curiousity, Do all the wards now have people go up to the pulpit to bare their testimonies ? Years ago ,we had the deacons carry microphones around to those wishing to bare testimony who stood where they were. 

[Buckeye]

5 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

Out of curiousity, Do all the wards now have people go up to the pulpit to bare their testimonies ? Years ago ,we had the deacons carry microphones around to those wishing to bare testimony who stood where they were. 

We have a deacon mic of someone physically can’t go up. But 99% of people go to the pulpit. 
 

one difference I’ve seen over my life is that fewer primary kids go up and give a testimony whispered in their ear by a parent. While cute, I’m glad that is dying out. Primary is a better venue to learn. If a kid really wants to go up, fine, but almost always it’s a parent pushing them. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

Out of curiousity, Do all the wards now have people go up to the pulpit to bare their testimonies ?

I've been in my ward (and its parent ward) for nearly 20 years. We've only ever used the pulpit. We do have an elderly brother who struggles to get up the steps, so we have a corded mic ready for him to use if he needs it, but it's attached to the base of the pulpit.

1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

one difference I’ve seen over my life is that fewer primary kids go up and give a testimony whispered in their ear by a parent.

We have zero of this. We do have some very young children who occasionally share testimonies. They do it sincerely and independently.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[bsjkki]

23 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

We have a deacon mic of someone physically can’t go up. But 99% of people go to the pulpit. 
 

one difference I’ve seen over my life is that fewer primary kids go up and give a testimony whispered in their ear by a parent. While cute, I’m glad that is dying out. Primary is a better venue to learn. If a kid really wants to go up, fine, but almost always it’s a parent pushing them. 

That’s been discouraged in numerous letters read from the pulpit. They should be able to go up independently. 

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I see the purpose as tying us to others, albeit in limited gospel topics. I don't find value in travelmonies. But I do find value when someone says "I have a testimony of the WOW because of ..." and then shares an appropriate life experience.

I really don't like starting on my talks with what the subject is, but I wonder if it would change things if a ward "required" this for say 6 months - stating what their testimony was and then sharing the experience. What I'm wondering is if it would get people to focus better and not spend a long time talking here and there trying to figure out what they want to say. Plus it might also help some see it's supposed to be a testimony and not sermon.

2 hours ago, Buckeye said:

As much as I love Elder Maxwell, if all that happened in testimony meeting was that everyone repeated the same basic elements - God lives, BOM is true, Joseph was a prophet, Church is true - without any elaboration or tying those testimonies to something real, well testimony meeting would be very very boring. 

I approach testimonies from the vantage of lawyer. The witness needs to state what they saw or believe, but crucially must give evidence in support. 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Rain

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

Out of curiousity, Do all the wards now have people go up to the pulpit to bare their testimonies ? Years ago ,we had the deacons carry microphones around to those wishing to bare testimony who stood where they were. 

That’s how all the wards did it that I attended growing up, but it’s been decades since I’ve seen it done. 

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, blackstrap said:

Out of curiousity, Do all the wards now have people go up to the pulpit to bare their testimonies ? Years ago ,we had the deacons carry microphones around to those wishing to bare testimony who stood where they were. 

We did a version of this during COVID by using the Zoom Webinar feature (instead of the normal Zoom meeting, allowing more control over those who participate), and that gave us the option to have someone at home either raise their hand or message to the moderator that they wanted to share their testimony, and the moderator was able to change the presenter to the person at home when it came to their turn.  Only a couple of people took advantage of that option, but it was a nice way to include everyone.

Otherwise, our ward had a hand carried microphone available, but it was rarely used.

[JLHPROF]

I honestly think many either don't know what a testimony is or don't care.

But it only takes one good one to make it worthwhile.  More spirit in true testimony than in most prepared talks.

[Hamba Tuhan]

29 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

More spirit in true testimony than in most prepared talks.

Which is why, as a bishopric, we always instructed speakers to teach from personal experiences instead of merely preparing a 'lecture'. When done right, a sermon is testimony-plus, IMO.

The problem comes when members don't have their own personal experiences with living/applying gospel principles. As I have observed over many years, unless something changes, those are the members we lose.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

During Covid, I watched Sac Mtg on Zoom, I guess it had it's perks because I'd been skipping going in person in the fairly new ward I'm in. Well, the same two older women got up every F&T mtg and went on and on about the same things every week, I was almost shouting at them to nip it! I hate when people take up the majority of the time and don't think of others needing to bare their testimonies too. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Tacenda

[Hamba Tuhan]

24 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I was almost shouting at them to nip it! I hate when people take up the majority of the time and don't think of others needing to bare [sic] their testimonies too. 

Sounds like you need to bear yours the next time one of them gets up!

[Kenngo1969]

15 hours ago, Buckeye said:

... Since we're in December, I'll relate one of my horror stories.  Early 1980s - testimony meeting in December. I'm in primary. Nice elderly sister begins her testimony "We believe in being honest. Children, your parents have been lying to you." Then goes on for 2 minutes about santa claus. My mother still says when recounting this story "if you think sacrament meeting was rough, you should have seen the aftermath in relief society." That is all.

 

Sacrament Meeting or Relief Society?   Heck, I can't imagine that Primary went off without a hitch!

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Sounds like you need to bear yours the next time one of them gets up!

I was thinking I spelled bare right, but you spell it different, either way, I doubt I will be bearing or baring my testimony anytime soon in front of a ward I feel miles apart. I think you spelled it correctly now that I see the "ing" on it. I noticed you put the [sic] for me, so you must be right. I am a poorer speller the older I get.