Testimony meeting

[bsjkki]

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics. It doesn’t seem to matter how often we are taught to share a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, human nature seems to fight against this concept. 

I like the quote that goes something like ‘once you begin preaching, your testimony has ended.’ 

I think different personalities react differently to testimony meeting. Open forums can be highly uncomfortable and I’ve heard some terrible, not in harmony concepts and teachings during testimony meeting. Just recently, I heard in my ward a woman got up and named by name all the recently returning members and told them it was ‘about time they came back.’ 

So, do you find testimony meeting valuable? Is it generally more good than bad? I wish Bishoprics would be better at starting the meeting as good examples but often they seem to also feel they must say something more than a testimony.

[rpn]

Yes, valuable.  Yes, always good (even for those that aren't testimonies, and most of repeat problems would be resolved if EQP, RSP and Bishops provided training when needed).   

And so what if some member doesn't like it ---- we get to choose for ourself how we respond to those who don't live their discipleship as well as we think they should. 

[bsjkki]

4 minutes ago, rpn said:

Yes, valuable.  Yes, always good (even for those that aren't testimonies, and most of repeat problems would be resolved if EQP, RSP and Bishops provided training when needed).   

And so what if some member doesn't like it ---- we get to choose for ourself how we respond to those who don't live their discipleship as well as we think they should. 

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your viewpoint. (I have found training seems to be futile.)

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics. It doesn’t seem to matter how often we are taught to share a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, human nature seems to fight against this concept. 

I like the quote that goes something like ‘once you begin preaching, your testimony has ended.’ 

I think different personalities react differently to testimony meeting. Open forums can be highly uncomfortable and I’ve heard some terrible, not in harmony concepts and teachings during testimony meeting. Just recently, I heard in my ward a woman got up and named by name all the recently returning members and told them it was ‘about time they came back.’ 

So, do you find testimony meeting valuable? Is it generally more good than bad? I wish Bishoprics would be better at starting the meeting as good examples but often they seem to also feel they must say something more than a testimony.

Testimony meeting is one of the things that my ward gets right, I think it would be a disservice to everyone to get rid of it.  It's the most spirit-filled, humble, and loving meeting we have all month.

But I know that they can be a real disaster sometimes too.  And that is detrimental to all.  I would rather see those wards that have constant problems embrace proactive and even aggressive "we are going to stop doing this" campaigns than to get rid of the meeting church wide. 

I think what we need to get rid of is this idea that we have to sit back and let people do and say problematic or hurtful things because we don't want to offend anyone.  The scriptures teach that God chastises whom He loves.   Maybe it's time for the church to not be afraid to chastise us sometimes.

 

[BlueDreams]

19 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics. It doesn’t seem to matter how often we are taught to share a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, human nature seems to fight against this concept. 

I like the quote that goes something like ‘once you begin preaching, your testimony has ended.’ 

I think different personalities react differently to testimony meeting. Open forums can be highly uncomfortable and I’ve heard some terrible, not in harmony concepts and teachings during testimony meeting. Just recently, I heard in my ward a woman got up and named by name all the recently returning members and told them it was ‘about time they came back.’ 

So, do you find testimony meeting valuable? Is it generally more good than bad? I wish Bishoprics would be better at starting the meeting as good examples but often they seem to also feel they must say something more than a testimony.

I have a better time with testimony meeting than regular meetings. Yes, there are some rough testimonies. Ones that go on forever or go up to preach, etc. But most seem genuine I enjoy them and when they're more rapid, I usually have a better time paying attention. 

but I also have a 3 year old, so just about every sacrament meeting I catch about 5 words. 

 

with luv,

BD

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Testimony meeting is one of the things that my ward gets right, I think it would be a disservice to everyone to get rid of it.  It's the most spirit-filled, humble, and loving meeting we have all month.

But I know that they can be a real disaster sometimes too.  And that is detrimental to all.  I would rather see those wards that have constant problems embrace proactive and even aggressive "we are going to stop doing this" campaigns than to get rid of the meeting church wide. 

I think what we need to get rid of is this idea that we have to sit back and let people do and say problematic or hurtful things because we don't want to offend anyone.  The scriptures teach that God chastises whom He loves.   Maybe it's time for the church to not be afraid to chastise us sometimes.

 

I am glad you have good experiences with testimony meeting in your ward. Maybe, for those who struggle,  they can leave and head to a quiet space after the sacrament. 

 

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I have a better time with testimony meeting than regular meetings. Yes, there are some rough testimonies. Ones that go on forever or go up to preach, etc. But most seem genuine I enjoy them and when they're more rapid, I usually have a better time paying attention. 

but I also have a 3 year old, so just about every sacrament meeting I catch about 5 words. 

 

with luv,

BD

That is my question. Does the good outweigh the bad? I am happy to hear for many of you, the answer is ‘yes.’

[BlueDreams]

3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

That is my question. Does the good outweigh the bad? I am happy to hear for many of you, the answer is ‘yes.’

For me yeah. But I'd say that with church overall. I've had bad lessons, bad RS meetings, bad sacrament talks, and bad testimonies. But I've had more good of all the above too. I like the idea of just stepping out when they're poor. Or reading something to ignore something you'd struggle with, etc. The reading ones my personal go-to when the lesson is subpar.

 

With luv,

Bd

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I have a better time with testimony meeting than regular meetings. Yes, there are some rough testimonies. Ones that go on forever or go up to preach, etc. But most seem genuine I enjoy them and when they're more rapid, I usually have a better time paying attention. 

but I also have a 3 year old, so just about every sacrament meeting I catch about 5 words. 

 

with luv,

BD

Our regular meetings are often not that great either.  I'm not exactly sure.

(It feels like we often get talks with a lot of scripture quoting and explanation of basic gospel themes--like a talk on repentance, for example, that is mostly explaining what repentance is and reading scriptures about it--and it's so easy to disengage with those kinds of talks because there's nothing personal in them.)

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I am glad you have good experiences with testimony meeting in your ward. Maybe, for those who struggle,  they can leave and head to a quiet space after the sacrament. 

 

I think that that would be an option for any kind of a meeting that a listener is struggling with.  It means they are going to miss some good or helpful things along with the bad and unhelpful, but if the struggle is difficult enough maybe it's necessary.

[Kenngo1969]

bsjkki, I'm sorry you didn't have the kind of experience you hope for in Testimony meeting.  The "Gospel net" catches all kinds, and each of us is at a different place on the path, even if we're all (hopefully) headed, however haltingly, in the same right direction.  I don't have much control over what "Crazy Brother So-and-so" or "Crazy Sister So-and-so" says in Testimony meeting.  About all I can do is pray for him or her, and (most of all!) for myself.  And perhaps what he or she said this month is an improvement (however small) over what he or she said last month!

At the risk of drawing an analogy that, perhaps, is inapt, if someone in General Conference delivers a message intended for young marrieds, or for youth, or for Primary children, or for sisters, I have at least two choices: (1) I can say, "Now seems like a perfect time to make that sandwich I've been craving!"  or (2) I can take a 1 Nephi 19:23 approach: "I did liken all General Conference addresses unto me, that they might be for my profit and learning."

Again, I am the only one I can control.  I might have to go to a pretty abstract level to find value in someone's seemingly-inane (insane? ) ramblings, but if that's what it takes ...  Or perhaps I would take the approach that President Henry B. Eyring's dad took when the former complained to the latter about a boring testimony or talk.  The elder Eyring said he preached the sermon he wished he would have heard to himself.  If all else fails ...

If nothing else, sometimes our fellow ward members are great opportunities for us to develop charity.  Maybe, as useless as they might seem sometimes, they give us the opportunity to knock off some of our own rough edges.

I'm sorry for the lack of sage advice.   (Perhaps I'm just one of those "Crazy Brother So-and-so's."  Forgive me!)

[Peacefully]

Something I plan to start doing is write down all the troublesome things people say at church, and it’s not limited to testimony meeting. This will just be for me and maybe I will share some on this forum. I think if I write it down, it will give me the chance to think about why it bothered me so much. Sometimes, it may be the mood I’m in, sometimes it may really be something that shouldn’t have been said. One of the things I love about our Church is the fact that we don’t have paid clergy bringing us messages every week. We, the people, bring the message to each other. It’s a double-edged sword because regular people are not trained to preach and so we go off the rails sometime, but all-in-all, I appreciate testimony meeting. 

[Tacenda]

I tend to enjoy testimonies, I do remember years ago when one of my children were blessed my bishop got up and bore a beautiful testimony and my inactive sister was in tears and was touched so much.

I give the church credit for taking on the risk of just anyone getting up to bear testimony, because you never know what you're gonna get, just like Forest Gump, haha.

Hopefully there will be an upswing and the testimonies will get better bsjkki, I'm sure there are highs and lows for sure. 

[bsjkki]

Appreciate the positive perspectives. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by bsjkki

[juliann]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics. It doesn’t seem to matter how often we are taught to share a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, human nature seems to fight against this concept. 

I like the quote that goes something like ‘once you begin preaching, your testimony has ended.’ 

I think different personalities react differently to testimony meeting. Open forums can be highly uncomfortable and I’ve heard some terrible, not in harmony concepts and teachings during testimony meeting. Just recently, I heard in my ward a woman got up and named by name all the recently returning members and told them it was ‘about time they came back.’ 

So, do you find testimony meeting valuable? Is it generally more good than bad? I wish Bishoprics would be better at starting the meeting as good examples but often they seem to also feel they must say something more than a testimony.

Since we are herd animals, I think this depends on what ward you are in. I have heard horrific stuff and there has been times where it is nothing but a parade of sermons and self serving stories. The ones I hate the most are what I call the Speshalmonies, stories about how God intervened in their lives by healing them, finding a perfect job for them, something they lost, blah blah when there are people in the audience who have had children die. That is why I name testimonies, travelmonies, sermonies, etc. 

[bsjkki]

22 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Something I plan to start doing is write down all the troublesome things people say at church, and it’s not limited to testimony meeting. This will just be for me and maybe I will share some on this forum. I think if I write it down, it will give me the chance to think about why it bothered me so much. Sometimes, it may be the mood I’m in, sometimes it may really be something that shouldn’t have been said. One of the things I love about our Church is the fact that we don’t have paid clergy bringing us messages every week. We, the people, bring the message to each other. It’s a double-edged sword because regular people are not trained to preach and so we go off the rails sometime, but all-in-all, I appreciate testimony meeting. 

I think I’ve tipped from overall appreciating to overall not. But, I could be trapped in an overall skeptic/negative mindset at the moment. An overall feeling of not belonging and a pile up of negative experiences. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Peacefully said:

Something I plan to start doing is write down all the troublesome things people say at church, and it’s not limited to testimony meeting. This will just be for me and maybe I will share some on this forum. I think if I write it down, it will give me the chance to think about why it bothered me so much. Sometimes, it may be the mood I’m in, sometimes it may really be something that shouldn’t have been said. One of the things I love about our Church is the fact that we don’t have paid clergy bringing us messages every week. We, the people, bring the message to each other. It’s a double-edged sword because regular people are not trained to preach and so we go off the rails sometime, but all-in-all, I appreciate testimony meeting. 

Just be sure to also write down the really good stuff so you don’t end up focusing only on what bothers you and it gets inflated (not saying that is why you are writing them down, it sounds more like you are trying to get to the root of why something bothers you so it won’t bother you anymore eventually, but that will take time, so I think you still need balance).  It is easy to choose a focus that then filters out important context.  For example, after years of discussing criticism and how to frame arguments for and against, I have to work at not listening to talks from a more apologetic focus with my mind going to “that’s wrong” or “that’s going to be taken the wrong way” and that can shut down the spiritual voice that otherwise often attends them for me or even the ability to think of the talk as a way to get to know the speaker better because I focus too much on minutiae.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Calm

[SkyRock]

When I was a youth, I often would just read the scriptures during bad talks and testimonies.  Now it is something different.

I think it started about 10 years ago or so at a church worldwide training broadcast.  One of the GAs (I think it was an apostle) said the purpose of church meetings was to help the members to have spiritual experiences.  Even if there is a poor teacher, a person can still gain spiritually from something. 

Not long after we had a talk in sacrament meeting.   It was the worst one I ever heard.   The newly married was so annoying and self absorbed and her talk was narcissistic and completely non scriptural.

Not long after this talk, I realized I had the wrong attitude during and after this talk.   Yes, this clueless annoying person gave an empty talk with no redeeming values on the surface, but even this horrible talk was a vehicle for the Holy Ghost.

Since then I try to put myself in the attitude of being open to listen and to feel the Holy Ghost.   Even during the worst talks, lessons, and testimonies, I feel like I benefit. 

 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Many, many more positives in my experience than negatives.  I mean, holy heck do the negatives stand out.  Like when the lady called out fat people for not following the WoW enough.  Or the other lady who called out women for wearing denim and young men for peeing on trees at a campout.  Or the dude who called out mentally ill folks for not being righteous enough to believe 'the priesthood is more powerful than a pill'.  Or (I could go on and on).

But yeah, my average testimony meeting has none of that.  Many unremarkable testimonies, but almost always one or two on target, moving, edifying testimonies.  I'm always amazed after one of our youth camps, how we'll have teen boys and girls come up teary eyed and bear a moving testimony of the reality of deity based on the unmistakable spiritual experiences they had.   

[HappyJackWagon]

4 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics. It doesn’t seem to matter how often we are taught to share a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, human nature seems to fight against this concept. 

I like the quote that goes something like ‘once you begin preaching, your testimony has ended.’ 

I think different personalities react differently to testimony meeting. Open forums can be highly uncomfortable and I’ve heard some terrible, not in harmony concepts and teachings during testimony meeting. Just recently, I heard in my ward a woman got up and named by name all the recently returning members and told them it was ‘about time they came back.’ 

So, do you find testimony meeting valuable? Is it generally more good than bad? I wish Bishoprics would be better at starting the meeting as good examples but often they seem to also feel they must say something more than a testimony.

I like this question.

I certainly wouldn't mind if it ended. What if instead of testimony meeting 1 Sunday a month was dedicated to instruction from ward leaders. That's not to say ward leaders couldn't speak at other times but it's systemically pretty rare for Bishoprics and Relief Society Presidencies and Elders Quorum Leadership to address the people. Especially when you consider how preachers/pastors etc of other faiths speak every week, it may only be a couple of times a year the bishop speaks to the entire congregation. That's not a lot.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, juliann said:

... The ones I hate the most are what I call the Speshalmonies, stories about how God intervened in their lives by healing them, finding a perfect job for them, something they lost, blah blah when there are people in the audience who have had children die. ...

I'm not taking issue with anything you've said.  Certainly, you've highlighted a problem.  Life's a "mixed bag" for all of us though.  I know beyond a shadow of a doubt (I "know" that's not a phrase we're supposed to use in testimonies, but I call 'em as I see 'em!) that there have been times when the Lord has intervened in my life.  On the other hand, there have been times when, frustratingly, it doesn't seem as though He has, and it has seeemed as though the heavens are absolute, pure, utter brass.  And, while I wish I could say confidently that the former has happened because I was "paying the price," doing [x], [y], and [z] while the latter has not happened because I wasn't, so, I "got back on the straight and narrow," or whatever, frankly, life isn't that neat, clean, or tidy. 

I've had people, in essence, lob the "well don't you think you're sheshul?" allegation at me.  And in response, I've said, in essence, "You only caught half the story then.  Perhaps you should try reading a little less selectively."

[Tacenda]

52 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

When I was a youth, I often would just read the scriptures during bad talks and testimonies.  Now it is something different.

I think it started about 10 years ago or so at a church worldwide training broadcast.  One of the GAs (I think it was an apostle) said the purpose of church meetings was to help the members to have spiritual experiences.  Even if there is a poor teacher, a person can still gain spiritually from something. 

Not long after we had a talk in sacrament meeting.   It was the worst one I ever heard.   The newly married was so annoying and self absorbed and her talk was narcissistic and completely non scriptural.

Not long after this talk, I realized I had the wrong attitude during and after this talk.   Yes, this clueless annoying person gave an empty talk with no redeeming values on the surface, but even this horrible talk was a vehicle for the Holy Ghost.

Since then I try to put myself in the attitude of being open to listen and to feel the Holy Ghost.   Even during the worst talks, lessons, and testimonies, I feel like I benefit. 

 

I got the same teaching from a leader about attitudes with listening to speakers. It never left me and always tried to see what good I can learn from the talks. Some were unforgettable for all the right reasons and some...like this woman that spoke in Sac Mtg and during it her cell phone rang, cell phones were rare at the time, and she answered during her talk and carried on a conversation, haha. It was like she planned it and wanted to impress. She could have at least had it be an object lesson, lol.

[Amulek]

4 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end?

Well, it's Monday afternoon at this point. If it's still going on, maybe it's time to send the Bishop a text or something...

 

Quote

Maybe, for those who struggle, they can leave and head to a quiet space after the sacrament. 

Maybe. For me, I don't think I could bring myself to do it though - there's just so much good that I would be missing out on.

I've been in testimony meetings were I thought I was about to witness an absolute train wreck in slow motion, right before my eyes...only to have it turn around and be one of the most moving, impactful spiritual experiences I've been graced to witness.

 

[Kenngo1969]

7 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Well, it's Monday afternoon at this point. If it's still going on, maybe it's time to send the Bishop a text or something...

"Well, we said we were going to end at five to the hour, but it has just been so Spirit-filled ..."  

[Buckeye]

5 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Is it time for testimony meeting to end? Just a question. So many times it lacks any ‘testimonies’ and seems to be a parade of narcissists preaching on pet topics. It doesn’t seem to matter how often we are taught to share a brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, human nature seems to fight against this concept. 

I like the quote that goes something like ‘once you begin preaching, your testimony has ended.’ 

I think different personalities react differently to testimony meeting. Open forums can be highly uncomfortable and I’ve heard some terrible, not in harmony concepts and teachings during testimony meeting. Just recently, I heard in my ward a woman got up and named by name all the recently returning members and told them it was ‘about time they came back.’ 

So, do you find testimony meeting valuable? Is it generally more good than bad? I wish Bishoprics would be better at starting the meeting as good examples but often they seem to also feel they must say something more than a testimony.

I find testimony meeting to be one of the better sacrament meetings. If nothing else, it helps the bishopric know who not to assign for a talk or recommend to the high council.

Seriously, though, while I've seen plenty of testimonies go off the rails, the "hit ratio" for testimonies in my stake is at least as high as the ratio for talks in general. 

Since we're in December, I'll relate one of my horror stories.  Early 1980s - testimony meeting in December. I'm in primary. Nice elderly sister begins her testimony "We believe in being honest. Children, your parents have been lying to you." Then goes on for 2 minutes about santa claus. My mother still says when recounting this story "if you think sacrament meeting was rough, you should have seen the aftermath in relief society." That is all.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Buckeye