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On the "F&^% the Mormons" Chant at the BYU Game


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Some links:

A few thoughts:

1. There has been substantial news coverage of this story, as there was with the BYU-Duke story.

2. Unlike the BYU-Duke story, the legitimacy of the misconduct here is not in dispute.

3. I appreciate the response from the Oregon coach, athletic director, student organization, and interim president (and also the governor of the state), all of whom apologized for the incident.  

4. I also appreciate BYU's response to the apology from Oregon.

5. This ESPN article references a nearly identical "offensive chant" story from last year, involving USC.  Per this article, the circumstances are nearly identical: 

  • A student section of a university
  • At a football game
  • Where BYU is the opposing team
  • Chanting "F$^# the Mormons"

Thanks,

-Smac

 

 

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This can’t be true. I have it on good authority that the whole thing was being completely buried and ignored.

CFR.

27 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Some links:

Oh…..ummmm……hmmmmmm.

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25 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

Who here did not say the word in their head anyway ?

 

Did I miss the SL Trib article?

The brain fills in gaps and a random symbol of no meaning is a gap. If there is a letter or two that gives direction along with the context, who wouldn’t go there in their mind? If one truly wants to avoid using a particular swear word, but still wants to indicate an expletive was used, then including no letter is best, imo, like #*%$!

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I'm glad to see the pushback on the chant from Oregonians. It's frankly heartwarming. It's not hard to get caught up in a sort of persecution complex, this helps bring clarity. 

That being said, I'm not persuaded that college kids necessarily "grow out" of behaviors which adults tend to shrug off. Once the current undergraduates are running the country (and the current adults are all gone), I'm not so optimistic. 

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On 9/20/2022 at 1:06 PM, smac97 said:

Some links:

A few thoughts:

1. There has been substantial news coverage of this story, as there was with the BYU-Duke story.

2. Unlike the BYU-Duke story, the legitimacy of the misconduct here is not in dispute.

3. I appreciate the response from the Oregon coach, athletic director, student organization, and interim president (and also the governor of the state), all of whom apologized for the incident.  

4. I also appreciate BYU's response to the apology from Oregon.

5. This ESPN article references a nearly identical "offensive chant" story from last year, involving USC.  Per this article, the circumstances are nearly identical: 

  • A student section of a university
  • At a football game
  • Where BYU is the opposing team
  • Chanting "F$^# the Mormons"

Thanks,

-Smac

 

 

Is this a textbook case of something that superficially looks to be impressive but is actually otherwise? It appears that with the exception of Fox News, KSL and many very small media outlets with limited reach, there are precious few mainstream news outlet stories. I’m also wondering how many of the above referenced reports are nationally circulated mainstream television and video media reports where most people get their news? I just did a search on YouTube and it seems that except for a few videos from Fox News and KSL that this story was mostly ignored by the news media giants who loudly trumpeted the Rachael Richardson story. If virtually none of the corporate media reports appeared on TV and the screens of personal devices, deliberately or not, the story was effectively buried. 

Edited by teddyaware
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20 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Is this a textbook case of something that superficially looks to be impressive but is actually otherwise?

I think the news coverage was fairly extensive, and included various large news outlets.

20 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

It appears that with the exception of Fox News, KSL and many very small media outlets with limited reach, there are precious few mainstream news outlet stories.

CBS Sports, CBS News, NBC News, New York Sun, The Hill, Washington Post, Daily Mail, Washington Examiner, ESPN and CNN all reported on this story (and the Seattle Times, and Sports Illustrated (here and here), and Yahoo News, and TMZ).

I did notice a few news outlets try to characterize "the media" as being "silent" or "ignoring" this story:

Fox News (9/18/2022) : Media largely ignores anti-Mormon chant at Oregon-BYU game

Quote

Although Oregon was quick to respond after videos emerged, mainstream media largely ignored the incident as well as the university’s apology. MSNBC and CNN had no reports on the event, though NBC reported on the story on Sunday afternoon.

It is true that MSNBC has not reported on this story, but NBC News did.  Both are owned by NBCUniversal.

CNN had not published anything by 9/18, but did publish this article the next day (9/19).

The New York Times has apparently not reported this story.

I do think there are serious problems with today's media, including bias.  But I think we need to be clear-eyed in our assessment of such things.  Here, there has been pretty substantial news coverage of both stories.  That the Duke story received more coverage is not that big a deal to me. 

20 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I’m also wondering how many of the above referenced reports are nationally circulated mainstream television and video media reports where most people get their news? I just did a search on YouTube and it seems that except for a few videos from Fox News and KSL that this story was mostly ignored by the news media giants who loudly trumpeted the Rachael Richardson story. If virtually none of the corporate media reports appeared on TV and the screens of personal devices, deliberately or not, the story was effectively buried. 

I don't have the means or inclination to track down the metrics of the various MSM outlets cited above (which did report on the story), but it seems like the coverage was pretty substantial.

Thanks,

-Smac

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1 minute ago, smac97 said:

I don't have the means or inclination to track down the metrics of the various MSM outlets cited above (which did report on the story), but it seems like the coverage was pretty substantial.

Most of the news outlets reporting on this seem to do a simple copy and paste from other sources rather than doing any investigation on the story themselves.

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On 9/20/2022 at 12:23 PM, bsjkki said:

BCAFCE85-1164-4101-8730-516D3145254F.jpeg

Heh.  I watched the clip a few times.  Imagine being so thin-skinned to think that was an example of hate, to encounter something like that that has a big enough impact on you that you "feel" it.   I wonder if Manumaleuna really believes in his own claim, or if he's so totally bought in to the culture of victimization that he can't tell what he believes.  I'm not impressed by his statement.  And, only having heard about him from this one screen cap, I'm not particularly impressed with him as an individual. 

How can I, a sensitive little Mormon boy who stank at sports and once cried during one of the Frozen movies, be tougher than a friggin' college quarterback?   If I had been sitting in the stands surrounded by these people, I wouldn't have "felt" much of anything.  I would have assumed I was surrounded by idiot college dudes, and I would be remembering how big an idiot I was when in college, and not having the slightest hard feeling.  I'd look for a quieter opportunity to go up to them and say something witty and disarming like "hey folks - I'm a Mormon - I trust you weren't being serious, because I just don't find any of you that attractive".  Maybe have a conversation with them about their gripes.  Good opportunity for missionary service.

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2 hours ago, JAHS said:

Most of the news outlets reporting on this seem to do a simple copy and paste from other sources rather than doing any investigation on the story themselves.

That seems pretty typical these days though, they may go so far as to rewrite it, but the quotes are identical.

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1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  I watched the clip a few times.  Imagine being so thin-skinned to think that was an example of hate, to encounter something like that that has a big enough impact on you that you "feel" it.   I wonder if Manumaleuna really believes in his own claim, or if he's so totally bought in to the culture of victimization that he can't tell what he believes.  I'm not impressed by his statement.  And, only having heard about him from this one screen cap, I'm not particularly impressed with him as an individual. 

How can I, a sensitive little Mormon boy who stank at sports and once cried during one of the Frozen movies, be tougher than a friggin' college quarterback?   If I had been sitting in the stands surrounded by these people, I wouldn't have "felt" much of anything.  I would have assumed I was surrounded by idiot college dudes, and I would be remembering how big an idiot I was when in college, and not having the slightest hard feeling.  I'd look for a quieter opportunity to go up to them and say something witty and disarming like "hey folks - I'm a Mormon - I trust you weren't being serious, because I just don't find any of you that attractive".  Maybe have a conversation with them about their gripes.  Good opportunity for missionary service.

You saw a clip, do you know for sure that was the limit to what was done or perhaps they were more offensive prior to the recording?  It is possible there was something additional that was more personal to the young man, perhaps it was less the chant and more the look on a particular offender’s face.  
 

Have you ever experienced anything close to that?  Just curious as to how you can be so sure you would react that way.  Perhaps if there was someone else with you that you cared about that looked upset, you might feel differently. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  I watched the clip a few times.  Imagine being so thin-skinned to think that was an example of hate, to encounter something like that that has a big enough impact on you that you "feel" it.   I wonder if Manumaleuna really believes in his own claim, or if he's so totally bought in to the culture of victimization that he can't tell what he believes.  I'm not impressed by his statement.  And, only having heard about him from this one screen cap, I'm not particularly impressed with him as an individual. 

How can I, a sensitive little Mormon boy who stank at sports and once cried during one of the Frozen movies, be tougher than a friggin' college quarterback?   If I had been sitting in the stands surrounded by these people, I wouldn't have "felt" much of anything.  I would have assumed I was surrounded by idiot college dudes, and I would be remembering how big an idiot I was when in college, and not having the slightest hard feeling.  I'd look for a quieter opportunity to go up to them and say something witty and disarming like "hey folks - I'm a Mormon - I trust you weren't being serious, because I just don't find any of you that attractive".  Maybe have a conversation with them about their gripes.  Good opportunity for missionary service.

Needs more game.

”I am flattered by your deep sexual interest in my people and me in particular. Normally I would be up for this as I like taking charge of insecure little boys like you but I do prefer them to be at least moderately attractive.”

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4 hours ago, Calm said:

You saw a clip, do you know for sure that was the limit to what was done or perhaps they were more offensive prior to the recording?  It is possible there was something additional that was more personal to the young man, perhaps it was less the chant and more the look on a particular offender’s face.  
Have you ever experienced anything close to that?  Just curious as to how you can be so sure you would react that way.  Perhaps if there was someone else with you that you cared about that looked upset, you might feel differently. 

These are all fair questions. 

Pretty much all of the links, and all of the news, come down to a single video posted on Twitter, and everyone talking about that video.  If more happened, I'm missing the eyewitness interviews.  It is possible, yes.  I was able to look at the offenders' faces/body language, and heard their voices, and yes, I saw the same youthful dumbness that commonly runs not-yet-fully-matured folks behavior when they're feeling at ease in group situations talking smack about the other team.

Probably the worst related thing I've encountered, was in middle school.  I was forced to recant my faith at knifepoint.  A kid who had 2 inches and 20 lbs on me, pushed me into a set of lockers and held his arm across my chest.  With his other hand, he held a pocketknife.  With the knife, he gestured at something hanging around his neck - it was a crucifix.  He said "You know what that means?  That means I cut Mormons.  Are you a Mormon?"  My skin was very thin in those days, and I lied, telling him no until he let me go.  Although I was terrified at the time, talked through the event with another kid who knew him, and have had 30+ years to think about it, I never really saw any hate in that kid.  My initial youthful impression was accurate - he was a bully, and was bullying me because that's what bullies do.  As the years went on and I learned more and more about bullies, I learned stuff like that usually ran downhill.  Dude probably had a horribly abusive home life - perhaps a domineering older brother or abusive dad - and the stuff that made up his home life seemed so normal to him, it came natural to seek out something weaker to dominate at school.  I learned, and have seen it in countless other examples across my life, that dude didn't have any hate in him, just fear, perhaps some self hatred.  I am not impressed with much of my young teen self's thin skinned behavior, like I'm not impressed with the quarterback's comments.  I'm grateful for growing a thicker skin over time.  Perhaps the quarterback will as well.

Anyway, apart from that extreme event, yes, I've had dozens of other less dramatic experiences with folks talking/yelling smack, sometimes violent smack, sometimes rude, sometimes hateful, sometimes playful and stupid and immature.  In my immature teen years, I've been in similar groups and said similar stupid things.  That video on twitter absolutely falls into the camp of dumb young men yelling dumb young men stuff.  I detected no hate.  I'm not giving them a pass, I'm not taking issue with the consequences that are happening.  I'm taking issue with quarterback dude saying "I think I know what hate feels like now".  If the twitter vid captures the essence of the behavior, dude has no earthly friggin' clue what experiencing hate feels like.  

I know/love/am related to plenty of people with thin skins.  I've exercised my stewardship with my kids and helped them look inside the people who act in negative ways.  I've exercised my influence with people outside of my stewardship when I figure it would be appropriate and helpful, to help them see what I see and develop thicker skins. 

So yeah, I'm just a random commenter saying something apparently unpopular based on very little information.  And I stand by what I said.  Thanks for asking good questions.

 

p.s. And yes, I know a crucifix doesn't mean that.  I have no issue with Catholics. :) 

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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I'd also like to point out the kids' yelling "f** the Mormons" followed the same popular cadence that brought us "f** Joe Biden", which turned into "Let's go Brandon".  It's quite a common cadence for people who aren't exactly experiencing the most reasoned maturity their amygdalas have to offer.   4 short guttural utterances of one syllable each.  You can be pretty dang stupid or drunk, or just high on life, and keep up a cadence like that, and think you're saying something important.

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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2 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I'd also like to point out the kids' yelling "f** the Mormons" followed the same popular cadence that brought us "f** Joe Biden", which turned into "Let's go Brandon".  It's quite a common cadence for people who aren't exactly experiencing the most reasoned maturity their amygdalas have to offer.   4 short guttural utterances of one syllable each.  You can be pretty dang stupid or drunk, or just high on life, and keep up a cadence like that, and think you're saying something important.

I found it childish but since that cadence brought us the rise of Dark Brandon which has made me laugh a few times I am going to call it a mixed bag.

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Since this morning, I’ve conducted a thorough search of YouTube using a variety of search terms and various expressions, and it appears I was exactly correct in my previous post on this subject. So unless someone can effectively demonstrate otherwise, it appears that there have been virtually no televised and video outlet reports published by the national mainstream news media on the BYU-Oregon f-bomb controversy, the lone exception being a minimal amount of televised coverage by Fox News.

Therefore, what appeared to be an impressive list of news organizations that covered the story proves to actually be pathetically minimal, especially when compared to the salivating mainstream media news coverage of the Rachel Richardson-Lesa Pamplin racial slur story.

Another mainstream media failure in this regard is that the obscene anti-Mormon chant story should have been used as an object lesson to demonstrate to a bitterly divided nation the kind of hateful behavior that can be stirred up when people spread defamatory racial lies about a whole class of innocent people who did nothing wrong. 

Edited by teddyaware
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