Don’t cross this line

[Pyreaux]

What is sin is not a set of universal morals laws, it depends on the covenant you are under.

Like the Royal Covenant says about the Davidic Kings, "I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men (2 Sam 7:14).

"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? … (Hebrews 12:7, )

Don't enjoy all the rules?

"Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby." (Hebrews 12:11)

And....

*Boom!* *Bursting into the interrogation room and points at you* "They must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham - Doctrine and Covenants 101:4!!!!!"
 

[bluebell]

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

 

Probably depends your reference point. I have little to no sweet tooth when it comes to added sugar. It happened slowly, and I used to have more of one. But I'm at the point that I prefer the taste of plain yogurt over sweetened and find even breads a little too sweet in the US (they're less sweet apparently in other countries). I can't handle most american desserts. With that reference point, the pop with a squirt of coconut syrup kinda sounds really gross. I tried a "dirty soda" with friends exactly once and I couldn't finish the drink. I think the closest analogy is picturing yourself scooping sugar or salt directly into your mouth. From my reference point there's nothing really wholesome (as in conducive to good health) by the average pop.*

I don't think one's health is in jeopardy from just having a rare soda though. It's fun and people like them. It's just not reaching the definition of wholesome to me (conducive to or suggestive of good health and physical well-being)

 

*At this point my idea of soda is either taking lemon, mint, or something like it in a carbonated water or cutting a martinelli down with carbonated water....that last option I can still only do a little of before my body starts saying "too much" to the sugar.    

 

With luv,

BD

I was using wholesome more as it applies to our moral well-being.  Birthday cake isn't healthy, but from my perspective it's still wholesome.  But like you said, if you tried to live on it, that would be another matter. 

[ksfisher]

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

On a controversial note, I personally believe most people (at least in developed country that heavily rely on large scale farming) can't follow the WoW in its entirety. It entails a societal level shift in agricultural practices, not just in individual diet. In a community where the WoW was fully practiced, several industrial farming practices would likely get the boot too or at least drastically shift. Not that you can come fairly close, but unless you're in some form of small scale farming community and buy all things in their season and use meat extremely sparingly....you're likely a ways off from the WoW.

What specific thing about large scale farming are you referring to here?

[BlueDreams]

7 hours ago, ksfisher said:

What specific thing about large scale farming are you referring to here?

It's more like things.

It helps to first note what the WoW points to. It first lays out why it's being given. It was both a means for "temporal salvation" for the weakest of all saints. And it was "in consequence of evils and designs" that "do/will exist in the hearts of conspiring men." Then it lays out the bulk of what to avoid and have in ones body and not just for our use but the use of nature, other animals, and creatures. All of these have seasons and reasons for use that should be honored and used wisely/with thanksgiving. 

So now back to industrialized farming practice. First it's often exploitative. if not to laborers and even smaller farmers, then also to the land. There's not a healthy balance in most practices between farms and local wildlife. And the effect often depletes or even poisons the land. it often creates fragile ecosystems or non-existant ones replaced by vast monocultures that are practically sterile of other forms of life. I struggle to see how this could be considered wise seems more in the "designs of conspiring men" looking to reap maximum profit. 

On another, much of our food production focuses on raising meat, directly or indirectly. This is to feed and has been promoted by industry subsidies and practices that keep meat cheap and maintain people's belief that they need a boat load of meat (or "protein" as many put it) to live healthily. The WoW puts meat largely in the supplemental, rare, or small amounts category. It's not "staff of life" that many take it to be in our culture. 

Food is often sold to us well out of season. I mean it's kinda in season somewhere, but to ship it from that far away usually entails plucking early to send 100's if not 1000's of miles away. WoW points to having things more in season...which would also mean fairly more local  to accomodate that. 

Industrialized food markets sell the image of diverse foods, but rarely measure up. Much of the middle of our grocery store is given to food that's a) barely food anymore and b) often made from similar ingredients. WoW points to a broader use of herbs, grains, and fruits/veggies than most get. 

 

These are the main ones that come to mind.

With luv,

BD

 

[mfbukowski]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:21 PM, The Nehor said:

Pepsi fans are THE WORST!

Chiefly because their ignorant palates cannot begin to imagine the subtle nuances of Doctor Pepper.

Ruffian hicks!

 

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, bluebell said:

I was using wholesome more as it applies to our moral well-being.  Birthday cake isn't healthy, but from my perspective it's still wholesome.  But like you said, if you tried to live on it, that would be another matter. 

The most fatal factor though is that every time you eat it, you have one less year to live. 🤔

[Scott Lloyd]

On 5/16/2022 at 1:21 PM, Stormin' Mormon said:

Somewhat tangentially....

What's the history behind the Church's relationship with caffeinated sodas?  I was inactive through my early teen years, but when I started going back to Church in my late teens in the mid 1990's, I never picked up on or internalized a taboo against Coke or Pepsi (or Mountain Dew, my own brew of choice).  I was actually surprised by roommates at BYU who didn't drink Coke.  Was it a Utah thing?  A generational thing?  A McConkie thing?  Was it a BYU-doesn't-sell-it-so-I'm-not-going-to-drink-it thing? 

I'm just curious if there really was a front-pedal that was eventually back-pedaled. 

Historically, Church leaders have discouraged the use of caffeinated soft drinks, though it was never grounds for denial of a temple recommend or eligibility to serve in Church callings. Only relatively recently has the Church declined to take a public stance on the matter. 
 

For my part, I never developed a taste for Coke, having grown up in the aforementioned time period. I’ve never felt especially deprived thereby. 
 

Added later: This article gives a fairly thorough and up-to-the-minute rundown on what Church leaders have said and not said regarding soda drinks containing caffeine. If you read it, you’ll have a pretty good understanding on this subject:

https://www.ldsliving.com/caffeine-what-the-prophets-have-actually-said/s/86182

Edited May 18, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Stormin' Mormon]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Historically, Church leaders have discouraged the use of caffeinated soft drinks, though it was never grounds for denial of a temple recommend or eligibility to serve in Church callings. Only relatively recently has the Church declined to take a public stance on the matter. 
 

For my part, I never developed a taste for Coke, having grown up in the aforementioned time period. I’ve never felt especially deprived thereby. 
 

Added later: This article gives a fairly thorough and up-to-the-minute rundown on what Church leaders have said and not said regarding soda drinks containing caffeine. If you read it, you’ll have a pretty good understanding on this subject:

https://www.ldsliving.com/caffeine-what-the-prophets-have-actually-said/s/86182

Thanks.  That's great. 

I had heard the following quote before, but was unaware that it was so old, that it dates back to 1972.

Quote

leaders of the Church have advised ... against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit.

With regards to the injunction against imbibing such drinks "under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit," I did a personal experiment last year, in which I gave up the Dew for two months.  Once I found that I could easily do it and I wasn't experiencing any withdrawal symptoms, I went back to it.  What I DID find, however, was that my Diet Dew habit wasn't the result of addiction, but rather the need to fill a specific dietary and fiscal niche.  Treating myself to a Diet Dew once or twice a week was a sweet treat with zero calories that set me back less than a buck (a little bit more these days, but still pretty cheap).  During my two-month experiment, I struggled to find something that was comparable in cost and calories.

[The Nehor]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:09 PM, Pyreaux said:

"Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby." (Hebrews 12:11)

*checks watch*

*breaks out fidget spinner*

[Pyreaux]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

*checks watch*

*breaks out fidget spinner*

*Goes back out of the room* *Bursting into the interrogation room and points at you* "Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer. - Doctrine and Covenants 42 verse 42!!!!!"

I swear after watching the Under the Banner of Heaven, I'm having a hard time passing up any opportunity to quote from the Doctrine in Covenants just like Andrew Garfield... .. ...

[Calm]

42 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

*Goes back out of the room* *Bursting into the interrogation room and points at you* "Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer. - Doctrine and Covenants 42 verse 42!!!!!"

I swear after watching the Under the Banner of Heaven, I'm having a hard time passing up any opportunity to quote from the Doctrine in Covenants just like Andrew Garfield... .. ...

Maybe we can make it into a thing, lol.  I have an urge to break out some scripture mastery cards. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Calm

[filovirus]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Historically, Church leaders have discouraged the use of caffeinated soft drinks, though it was never grounds for denial of a temple recommend or eligibility to serve in Church callings. Only relatively recently has the Church declined to take a public stance on the matter. 
 

For my part, I never developed a taste for Coke, having grown up in the aforementioned time period. I’ve never felt especially deprived thereby. 
 

Added later: This article gives a fairly thorough and up-to-the-minute rundown on what Church leaders have said and not said regarding soda drinks containing caffeine. If you read it, you’ll have a pretty good understanding on this subject:

https://www.ldsliving.com/caffeine-what-the-prophets-have-actually-said/s/86182

Back in '96 and '97, I was serving a mission in El Salvador. The first day in the country, as we were eating dinner with the Mission Pres., he made us all drink a Coke. He then told us that we also needed to do so in front of members of the church throughout our two years. He stated that some over-zealous church leaders had been not giving out temple recommends to members who drank Coke. That's the only time I ever heard of that, but that is when I started drinking Coke.

About 5 years ago I was drinking 2-3 diet Cokes a day, and if I missed a day, I would get massive headaches. So I quit cold turkey. It was an excruciating week. I actually vomited a few times as my body was becoming adjusted to life without diet Coke. I now only take caffeine for certain situations. I will have some caffeinated gummies before a race (I run about 1 race a month from spring to fall) and on long drives if I feel a little drowsy.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

*Goes back out of the room* *Bursting into the interrogation room and points at you* "Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer. - Doctrine and Covenants 42 verse 42!!!!!"

I swear after watching the Under the Banner of Heaven, I'm having a hard time passing up any opportunity to quote from the Doctrine in Covenants just like Andrew Garfield... .. ...

I haven’t eaten for a day and am naked. So all good here. I am wondering who you are and what you are doing in my house but I am going out for the evening and when I return I will tell you many tales of my adventures.

[Orthodox Christian]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:43 AM, Teancum said:

Well that is the point. Vaping is not good for you health wise.  Nor is smoking, Nor is alcohol maybe even in moderation.  But why make these things a worthiness issue? If the WoW is really God directed and needed for worthiness to enter the temple let's make it mandatory on obesity, eating to much meat, etc.  To make what someone consumes or does not consume a test of following some God is just plain dumb. It is really about control.

Can you clarify for me please. Why does anything that you put in your body affect the perception of worthiness. Christ himself said that what you put in your body does not defile, but what is in the heart, or what is within us that defiles. So, while it's pretty sensible to try and take care of our health, and abstain from certain things, it seems that what makes us unworthy is the state of our inner selves, our souls. We all know that we can put on an outward show for whatever reason, for going to church for example, but be totally the opposite inside. The same applies to going into any space regarded as sacred, but God sees what is within, isn't cleaning the inside of the cup more important, so that we don't come before God as whitewashed tombs? 

[Kenngo1969]

On 5/17/2022 at 3:11 PM, bluebell said:

I was using wholesome more as it applies to our moral well-being.  Birthday cake isn't healthy, but from my perspective it's still wholesome.  But like you said, if you tried to live on it, that would be another matter. 

 

On 5/18/2022 at 2:14 AM, mfbukowski said:

The most fatal factor though is that every time you eat it, you have one less year to live. 🤔

And that's if you eat only your own birthday cake every year!  Just imagine!  If I were to go to one birthday party a week, that would shave 52 years off of my life!  I would be OK with that: I don't want to live until I'm 104; I don't even want to live until I'm 54!    But I'm ... still here ...   Now, who's having a birthday party?!  Party On, Dude(tte)s!  

Edited May 20, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Can you clarify for me please. Why does anything that you put in your body affect the perception of worthiness. Christ himself said that what you put in your body does not defile, but what is in the heart, or what is within us that defiles. So, while it's pretty sensible to try and take care of our health, and abstain from certain things, it seems that what makes us unworthy is the state of our inner selves, our souls. We all know that we can put on an outward show for whatever reason, for going to church for example, but be totally the opposite inside. The same applies to going into any space regarded as sacred, but God sees what is within, isn't cleaning the inside of the cup more important, so that we don't come before God as whitewashed tombs? 

I think Teancum would agree with you.  However, there is no question in my mind that what one puts into one's body has the ability to affect one's perception of a lot of things.  Ask anyone who's tripped out on LSD, 'Shrooms, or, heck, for that matter, even, in some cases, harmless Mary Jane!)  In any case, Latter-day Saints have covenanted to avoid certain things, and, to whatever degree and in whatever way using any of these substances might enhance one's life [or at least, one believes that using such substances wouldn't do permanent harm, although one never knows], I know I will be blessed for keeping my covenants.

[Kenngo1969]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:58 PM, The Nehor said:

I haven’t eaten for a day and am naked. So all good here. I am wondering who you are and what you are doing in my house but I am going out for the evening and when I return I will tell you many tales of my adventures.

You're leaving your house naked?  Yes, I'm sure that portends many ... um ... adventures!   

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Can you clarify for me please. Why does anything that you put in your body affect the perception of worthiness. Christ himself said that what you put in your body does not defile, but what is in the heart, or what is within us that defiles. So, while it's pretty sensible to try and take care of our health, and abstain from certain things, it seems that what makes us unworthy is the state of our inner selves, our souls. We all know that we can put on an outward show for whatever reason, for going to church for example, but be totally the opposite inside. The same applies to going into any space regarded as sacred, but God sees what is within, isn't cleaning the inside of the cup more important, so that we don't come before God as whitewashed tombs? 

It’s not what we put into our bodies that makes us unworthy, it’s how we respond to a commandment not to put something into our bodies.

If Christ says “don’t do this” and we do it anyway, we believe that has a negative impact on our relationship with Him, keeping us from accessing those blessings that He grants to those who follow Him. 

[The Nehor]

Took a peek at our leadership training agenda for what is going to be in the next meeting.

‘Grooming standards for temple recommend interviews’

’How to delegate bishop’s responsibilities so that Bishoprics can focus on the youth’

‘New weekly bishop training meetings’

 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Took a peek at our leadership training agenda for what is going to be in the next meeting.

‘Grooming standards for temple recommend interviews’

Please definitely return and report on this one!