The “Cross”, or what?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I originally thought I would post this in the Social Forum, but it now seems more suited in this Forum. What should Latter-day Saints have on their headstones once they pass away? This is on my mind, as I have been very sick lately, losing 20lbs in just six weeks. Being 6’2”, and now weighting 178lbs, is not a good thing. Because of this I have told my wife that we need to make our funeral arrangements, before it is to late. As I do t want my children to deal with this, I want to spare them from this burden. 
 

I will be buried in a National Cemetery, because I am former military (Army), which means they will open the grave, give me a vault, provide the headstone, and close my grave (also my wife). I also have insurance, so my wife or children will not have to pay anything. Knowing this, I began looking for what type of Cross I want on my headstone. To my surprise, there are many different versions of the “Cross”, to chose from. However, again to my surprise, you can have the “Angel Moroni” carved on your headstone. I would prefer a “Cross”, as an “Angel Moroni” would confuse almost anyone who might visit my grave, especially my extended family. As my family are the only members, and my extended family think I have lost my mind, while most believe I will burn in Hell. 
 

So, to the question…For Veterans, what would you prefer, a Cross, or the Angel Moroni?

For non-military…What do those Latter-day Saints have on their headstones, and what would you like on your headstone?
 

I ask about Latter-day Saint headstones, because here in Georgia we don’t have cemeteries with copious LDS gravesites.    

 

[JAHS]

Many Church members have a depiction of the temple on the headstone. My wife and I were married in the old Ogden temple so that is what is on her headstone.

[mfbukowski]

48 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I originally thought I would post this in the Social Forum, but it now seems more suited in this Forum. What should Latter-day Saints have on their headstones once they pass away? This is on my mind, as I have been very sick lately, losing 20lbs in just six weeks. Being 6’2”, and now weighting 178lbs, is not a good thing. Because of this I have told my wife that we need to make our funeral arrangements, before it is to late. As I do t want my children to deal with this, I want to spare them from this burden. 
 

I will be buried in a National Cemetery, because I am former military (Army), which means they will open the grave, give me a vault, provide the headstone, and close my grave (also my wife). I also have insurance, so my wife or children will not have to pay anything. Knowing this, I began looking for what type of Cross I want on my headstone. To my surprise, there are many different versions of the “Cross”, to chose from. However, again to my surprise, you can have the “Angel Moroni” carved on your headstone. I would prefer a “Cross”, as an “Angel Moroni” would confuse almost anyone who might visit my grave, especially my extended family. As my family are the only members, and my extended family think I have lost my mind, while most believe I will burn in Hell. 
 

So, to the question…For Veterans, what would you prefer, a Cross, or the Angel Moroni?

For non-military…What do those Latter-day Saints have on their headstones, and what would you like on your headstone?
 

I ask about Latter-day Saint headstones, because here in Georgia we don’t have cemeteries with copious LDS gravesites.    

 

I have no problem with a cross, my friend, it is as close as we have to a universal social reminder of the atonement, and goes to the core of the matter

Earlier in church history it was used in LDS symbology, then it became unpopular. 

I am so glad that President Nelson is emphasizing the Holy name of Jesus more so that we are no longer seen as a weird Utah cult, but THE church of Jesus Christ.  I would have a cross or even a crucifix on my stone, I have one in our bedroom.

We have to get over this silliness, virtually culturally "banning" the cross.

https://www.amazon.com/Banishing-Cross-Emergence-Mormon-Taboo/dp/1934901350?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls

Mike Reed used to post here.

Edited April 30, 2022 by mfbukowski

[teddyaware]

32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I have no problem with a cross, my friend, it is as close as we have to a universal social reminder of the atonement, and goes to the core of the matter

Earlier in church history it was used in LDS symbology, then it became unpopular. 

I am so glad that President Nelson is emphasizing the Holy name of Jesus more so that we are no longer seen as a weird Utah cult, but THE church of Jesus Christ.  I would have a cross or even a crucifix on my stone, I have one in our bedroom.

We have to get over this silliness, virtually culturally "banning" the cross.

https://www.amazon.com/Banishing-Cross-Emergence-Mormon-Taboo/dp/1934901350?ref_=d6k_applink_bb_dls

Mike Reed used to post here.

I wonder how many Latter-Day Saints who shun the symbolism of the cross are familiar with the following testimony of the apostle Paul?

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. (Galatians 6:14)

Edited April 30, 2022 by teddyaware

[Tacenda]

Papa, I don't know if my opinion counts. But I would do what you and your wife wants, not care about what your extended family thinks. What do you prefer? If it's a cross than fine.

When my parents passed away, my siblings and my name was engraved on the back. They all went with nicknames, or shortened versions of our names. But when my name was shortened I thought it would look funny and people would wonder what the heck name is that. Their names were okay when shortened, but my name, Lisa, would have been Lis. I regret it now. I wish I'd not thought what others would think. I also thought my mom would like it to be how she originally named us. And then again, she'd call me Lis. Not Lisa much. So my name is normal, and theirs shortened. Now regret that. 

So if my little dumb story helps you, maybe just go with what you want? And I hope you recuperate soon, but I'm the same, went on a little vacation and panicked that my husband and I still didn't have a trust in case something were to happen, so within a week we scraped one together with the help of an attorney over a video call and then I quickly got a notary at UPS. But the plane landed, haha. Still alive. 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Tacenda

[Calm]

What about something like the new church logo? A silhouette of Christ.  If that could be an option.

Though I agree with Tacenda, if you would like a cross go with it.

[SkyRock]

I have long been bothered by the century old effort to banish the cross from LDS worship.   

The idea of Christ being lifted up on the cross and the need to take upon us the cross is throughout the scriptures.

3 Nephi 27:14-15 is typical:

"14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works."

As to which specific cross:  I like the Latin, the Greek, and the Celtic best. 

 

[mfbukowski]

45 minutes ago, Calm said:

What about something like the new church logo? A silhouette of Christ.  If that could be an option.

Great idea!  

But if the Vets are paying for it, he has to stick by their standards and what they will pay for.

Heck I might even go for a Star of David.  😱

Edited April 30, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

But if the Vets are paying for it, he has to stick by their standards and what they will pay for.

I was wondering if they would allow any creativity.

[mfbukowski]

But how much does it cost?  Putting a dollar amount behind it changes the whole dynamic!!

[strappinglad]

Is it true that an early church symbol was a fish , or is that a myth ? 

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Is it true that an early church symbol was a fish , or is that a myth ? 

Early Christianity, yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

[Raingirl]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I was wondering if they would allow any creativity.

The paperwork that the veteran fills out has a place that allows you to choose “an emblem of belief”.  Illustrations of the emblems are provided and you choose from there. Various styles of crosses and the angel Moroni are among the choices. Your choice must be made from these, no free-lancing allowed. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

What about something like the new church logo? A silhouette of Christ.  If that could be an option.

Though I agree with Tacenda, if you would like a cross go with it.

I don’t think the military has that as an option. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

6 hours ago, JAHS said:

Many Church members have a depiction of the temple on the headstone. My wife and I were married in the old Ogden temple so that is what is on her headstone.

I am required to choose the options that the military allows. 

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Is it true that an early church symbol was a fish , or is that a myth ? 

Are YOU serious??

Early church?

Where I live there are fish symbols on signs, license plates, business cards, everything, to indicate one is a Christian. Google Amazon fish symbols THOUSANDS of them

Edited April 30, 2022 by mfbukowski

[strappinglad]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Are YOU serious??

There have been a few things about the ancient world that were once believed to be true and now are less so. Out of an abundance of caution... 🥴

Edited April 30, 2022 by strappinglad

[mfbukowski]

I might go for this:

🤪

[sunstoned]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Are YOU serious??

Early church?

Where I live there are fish symbols on signs, license plates, business cards, everything, to indicate one is a Christian. Google Amazon fish symbols THOUSANDS of them

Seinfeld, Jesus fish

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6db9d3e5-8fdc-48d8-a79a-afbd603adbe3

Edited May 1, 2022 by sunstoned

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Are YOU serious??

Early church?

Where I live there are fish symbols on signs, license plates, business cards, everything, to indicate one is a Christian. Google Amazon fish symbols THOUSANDS of them

That craze started in the 60’s with the belief that the fish was originally a secret sign amongst Christians. The story goes that you could draw half the fish and another believer would draw the other half and it was a secret sign to identify a believer. There is no evidence to support this idea and Christian persecution was not widespread during the time the symbol first appeared so it doesn’t make much sense. The idea that the authorities would never learn about this unchanging secret symbol for literally centuries seems unlikely.

The symbol was used but it was more the equivalent of an ancient meme. It was shorthand for “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior” and worked as an acrostic with the word fish in Greek. It was used in graffiti and tomb markings and in other ways and then was largely forgotten until it was rediscovered and popularized in the 60s on bumper stickers and church signs.

[mfbukowski]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

 

Oops. Back later.

Edited May 2, 2022 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That craze started in the 60’s with the belief that the fish was originally a secret sign amongst Christians. The story goes that you could draw half the fish and another believer would draw the other half and it was a secret sign to identify a believer. There is no evidence to support this idea and Christian persecution was not widespread during the time the symbol first appeared so it doesn’t make much sense. The idea that the authorities would never learn about this unchanging secret symbol for literally centuries seems unlikely.

The symbol was used but it was more the equivalent of an ancient meme. It was shorthand for “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior” and worked as an acrostic with the word fish in Greek. It was used in graffiti and tomb markings and in other ways and then was largely forgotten until it was rediscovered and popularized in the 60s on bumper stickers and church signs.

Baloney! There's a lot more to that.

Google the biblical use of the number 153, and the "vesica piscis"

HEAVY heavy symbology going back to Pythagoras.  Far out groovy stuff.

Typing on my phone does not work well for me.

 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Baloney! There's a lot more to that.

Google the biblical use of the number 153, and the "vesica piscis"

HEAVY heavy symbology going back to Pythagoras.  Far out groovy stuff.

Typing on my phone does not work well for me.

 

I knew some of that. I admittedly take most numerology with a shaker of salt.

Edited May 2, 2022 by The Nehor

[Bernard Gui]

The cross has profound expression in our worship services and in our most sacred ordinances. In this we play second fiddle to no one. And there is this…

 “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him…if you love me, keep my commandments.” 

[Rain]

I would put nothing.  I do not like the idea of much money spent on things for after I die - casket, flowers (more so left at my grave site), headstone etc. I very MUCH prefer money spent to go to the living.  If anyone wants to spend money on honoring me and knows me they will donate to children's hospitals, refugee organizations, homeless organizations etc.  

Edited May 4, 2022 by Rain