The LDS church and marijiuana

[Bernard Gui]

As an orchestra teacher, I started kids in the fourth grade and kept many in my groups through twelfth grade, so I got to know them quite well. I was usually able to tell when they started using marijuana and/or alcohol because of the changes in attitude, productivity, concentration, reliability, and other factors. And having seen their effects on close family members, I have no use for those substances nor tolerance for those who promote or peddle them.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I was usually able to tell when they started using marijuana and/or alcohol because of the changes in attitude, productivity, concentration, reliability, and other factors.

Yep. I told my students in the alternative high school that I could accurately identify by day whether they were under the influence of marijuana or not. No one wanted to believe me, but whenever they tested me on this, I was 100 per cent accurate. I held one of my favourite students after class one day and asked him what was up since he was clearly high on pot, and this was out of character for him. He immediately apologised and let me know that his mum had invited one of her 'boyfriends' around the night before, and the two of them had smoked joints all night long, filling their small flat with second-hand smoke. The change in personality/concentration/motivation was immediately obvious ... and clearly detectable.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[pogi]

Yep, not hard to pick out. 

This is exactly what all my friends looked like their Junior and Senior years.

[Tacenda]

I remember the days in high school. We had an East parking lot, known for where the stoners hung out, I wasn't one of them. And see what people are saying. And that is a good reason to stress that weed isn't good for young minds, especially during their school years. I like to think CBD/THC is for only those that need it medically. And the dosage is where it's at, of course too much is going to have detrimental affects. Just as any medications as well. I'm sad for those that truly need help medically, where it doesn't do the trick.

I mentioned how my son relied on vaping THC, for his depression etc. I hated how he had changed in high school. I didn't know at the time, but I think he had ADD. He is doing much better now, as many teens turning adult do better after those rough years. 

I think it's an individual thing, and it's not an all or nothing thing. I know that it's helped many because I read their stories on the FB group called, "Cannabis Success Stories". The people that post are always very worried for trying something that's been stigmatized for so long. But was used medicinally centuries ago. Also, did anyone know? The government has a patent on it. 

I also believe it isn't a cure all, many things help cure that are natural out there, and what's needed is someone to do their research, and try things out as long as it's not harming themselves.

But for recreational only, and doing so much that they can't function is awful.

 

[Teancum]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:31 AM, mfbukowski said:

It alters consciousness, and interferes with the Spirit.

Not gonna happen imo 

many cultures historically  believe mind altering drugs can put them in touch with the spirit, god being, higher power, etc.  But I agree that the Church won't ever endorse recreational pot.  It gives up to much control of its membership and keeps them in a parent child relationship with the organization.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Teancum

[Teancum]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:29 AM, The Nehor said:

I have eaten enough chocolate at church activities to know that we are okay with some recreational drug use.

No booze, no drugs ,but go ahead and pig out on bad food and become obese.  If obesity was a TR question you would have a lot fewer TR holders.  Which is worse?  A few beers, a glass of wine, a few pot gummies or a joint her and there or being obese?

[Teancum]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:31 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Recreational drug use is a very different matter, and I doubt that Latter-day Saints will ever approve of drinking tea, coffee, or anything harder.

Coffee and tea are good for you. Especially tea. And especially green tea.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

No booze, no drugs ,but go ahead and pig out on bad food and become obese.  If obesity was a TR question you would have a lot fewer TR holders.  Which is worse?  A few beers, a glass of wine, a few pot gummies or a joint her and there or being obese?

That's right, being fat isn't bad enough, we should be fat and stoned/drunk! 

I agree with you though, obesity is the larger health problem in America right now, but I still like the WoW. American's would benefit, and likely loose lots of weight, if they strictly followed its counsel with a diet primarily of "all wholesome herbs", no this is not talking about spices and medical herbs - think of herbs as all wholesome produce - as in herbivore.  The WoW recommends a whole foods, plant based diet - which is what many medical experts recommend for a healthy diet today.  While many only think of the WoW in terms of what is prohibited, the WoW could help to eradicate the obesity epidemic if America followed its precepts, and not just its prohibitions. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by pogi

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yep. I told my students in the alternative high school that I could accurately identify by day whether they were under the influence of marijuana or not. No one wanted to believe me, but whenever they tested me on this, I was 100 per cent accurate. I held one of my favourite students after class one day and asked him what was up since he was clearly high on pot, and this was out of character for him. He immediately apologised and let me know that his mum had invited one of her 'boyfriends' around the night before, and the two of them had smoked joints all night long, filling their small flat with second-hand smoke. The change in personality/concentration/motivation was immediately obvious ... and clearly detectable.

That happens in a car with closed windows, called "hotboxing", but the smoke (I am told ) permeates your clothes etc. to the point that anyone within 10 ft. knows what you have been doing.

It's like tobacco smoke in that way.  But in a space large enough to live in, and the next day?

Every bit of clothing even in a closet would absorb the odor.

I think perhaps he was stretching the truth, and was an active participant  

Or so my friends have told me. 😇

 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Coffee and tea are good for you. Especially tea. And especially green tea.

So is chocolate, but my cardiologist doesn't want me to eat it or drink it.

[Teancum]

40 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

So is chocolate, but my cardiologist doesn't want me to eat it or drink it.

Well That is different than a religion telling you not to eat it. I doc may want someone to limit coffee of tea due to health issues that are unique to them but not the masses.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

many cultures historically  believe mind altering drugs can put them in touch with the spirit, god being, higher power, etc.  But I agree that the Church won't ever endorse recreational pot.  It gives up to much control of its membership and keeps them in a parent child relationship with the organization.

So the church is keeping people in line by not having them drugged into a stupor? Odd, I know of cults that do the exact opposite.

[Robert F. Smith]

13 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Well That is different than a religion telling you not to eat it. I doc may want someone to limit coffee of tea due to health issues that are unique to them but not the masses.

The Word of Wisdom was given as health advice after Emma got very tired of guys missing the spitoon in her house, and cleaning up after them (chewing tobacco).  She also didn't like the smoke filled rooms, nor the drinking habits of the guys (including her husband).  The temperance movement was then taking hold in the population in general (my own Methodist forbears took the pledge at that time and held to it).  The advice overall is very good, even if some of it is unclear/non-specific.

There are indeed people who tout the health value of a glass of wine with dinner (heart disease is way down in France), and of various forms of tea and coffee.  There are also many experts which find fault with all those things.

The Word of Wisdom became far more hard core in the 20th century, kind of like Muslim halal and Jewish kashrut rules.  That even led to a shift from wine to water in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper.  The Word of Wisdom consequently seems more of a Nazarite vow among pious Latter-day Saints, but that was not how it began.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

So the church is keeping people in line by not having them drugged into a stupor? Odd, I know of cults that do the exact opposite.

Control comes in all sorts of forms. I would object to a cult or religion requiring members to get drugged up. It is all about choice without being compelled.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The Word of Wisdom was given as health advice after Emma got very tired of guys missing the spitoon in her house, and cleaning up after them (chewing tobacco).  She also didn't like the smoke filled rooms, nor the drinking habits of the guys (including her husband).  The temperance movement was then taking hold in the population in general (my own Methodist forbears took the pledge at that time and held to it).  The advice overall is very good, even if some of it is unclear/non-specific.

Yes I am well aware.  And I did not say the advice was not good at least in part.  And then it was advice. Now it is a command at least for the do not do it parts.

 

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There are indeed people who tout the health value of a glass of wine with dinner (heart disease is way down in France), and of various forms of tea and coffee.  There are also many experts which find fault with all those things.

Yes it goes back ad forth for alcohol.  Now they say even one drink a day is really bad for your hearts. Personally I think alcohol is one of the worst things someone can consume.  THe negative health results are not worth any benefit moderate drinking might bring. Alcohol is just horrible for all of your body parts.  And a large % of the population will end up abusing it. Better to avoid it. 

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The Word of Wisdom became far more hard core in the 20th century, kind of like Muslim halal and Jewish kashrut rules.  That even led to a shift from wine to water in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper.  The Word of Wisdom consequently seems more of a Nazarite vow among pious Latter-day Saints, but that was not how it began.

I do not disagree. I think President Grant was mad Utah was the last state to support revoking prohibition. So he made it a TR requirement.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And the dosage is where it's at, of course too much is going to have detrimental affects.

I was taking the minimal dose…and it was tiny…to control the nausea I was getting with Meniere’s.  I got major, major apathy with just that dose. I have apathy issues with my depression and it was never that bad.  I am not saying don’t take it as it allowed me to emotionally survive during the worse stages of my disorder, but just saying there can be detrimental effects even with small doses.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

many things help cure that are natural out there,

The changes made to cannabis through selective breeding etc, intensifying the levels of the drug in the plant take it out of the “natural” category for me.  It is not the same plant that nature provided us eons ago.

[poptart]

21 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Cool!   

You're hired!  When can you start?!   

 

Heads up, I eat a lot of spicy food.  I've made roommates cry.

 

[poptart]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

Yep, not hard to pick out. 

This is exactly what all my friends looked like their Junior and Senior years.

Lol classy.  

Now more than ever, we need Tegridy.  

[Kenngo1969]

30 minutes ago, poptart said:

Heads up, I eat a lot of spicy food.  I've made roommates cry.

 

I do like spicy food* ... or at least, I have.  I'm finding as the years pass that it doesn't like me.    

*Your taste for spicy food might put mine to shame, but ...

[poptart]

Just now, Kenngo1969 said:

I do like spicy food* ... or at least, I have.  I'm finding as the years pass that it doesn't like me.    

*Your taste for spicy food might put mine to shame, but ...

I visited my half member relatives last year for someones birthday, we went to a Mexican place in the mountains, was the first time I ever saw people eating salsa with lettuce and what looked like mayo, no idea.  I think I was the only one who had the hot one, the rest mild, it was still hot for them.  This side is like, blone and really, really fair, the kind that never tans, they just fry in the summer.  I'm fair too but I'll eventually get a farmers tan, that and blonde hair has never graced my scalp.  Great people, envious of the wholesome family togetherness, they have the not so nice relatives here fooled lol.  

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 2/23/2022 at 5:15 AM, mfbukowski said:

I think perhaps he was stretching the truth, and was an active participant.

That's possible, but it would have been even more out of character. He had no motivation to deceive. He wasn't avoiding potential trouble at all, and he was honest with me both before and after.

On a personal note, I studied for my master's degree at an American university (in?)famous for being one of the most 'progressive'. I lived in a block of flats my first year, with an internal corridor, doors directly across from each other. One Friday night, I woke up feeling really sick. When I attempted to get out of bed, I realised I was dizzy and disorientated. I walked to the kitchenette to get some water, and when I switched the light on, I could see that my flat was filled with smoke.

Terrified that the building was on fire, I opened the door. The smoke was billowing out from under the door of the flat opposite and, with my window open, being sucked straight into mine. I could hear music and voices, and it finally dawned on me that this smoke, which wasn't tobacco, must be something else.

Still dizzy and a bit nauseated, I rolled up a wet towel to block the gap under the door and went back to bed -- a tactic I used each weekend thereafter. So yeah, I was affected by smoke from under my door.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Control comes in all sorts of forms. I would object to a cult or religion requiring members to get drugged up. It is all about choice without being compelled.

There might be pressure but compulsion? No.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

The changes made to cannabis through selective breeding etc, intensifying the levels of the drug in the plant take it out of the “natural” category for me.  It is not the same plant that nature provided us eons ago.

 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I was taking the minimal dose…and it was tiny…to control the nausea I was getting with Meniere’s.  I got major, major apathy with just that dose. I have apathy issues with my depression and it was never that bad.  I am not saying don’t take it as it allowed me to emotionally survive during the worse stages of my disorder, but just saying there can be detrimental effects even with small doses.

I'm so sorry that I probably practically begged you to try cannabis.

I hate to even ask, but did you use CBD with THC? I ask because I'm wondering if using the one w/o THC could be of any help. 

I'm sorry for even asking....

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 

I'm so sorry that I probably practically begged you to try cannabis.

I hate to even ask, but did you use CBD with THC? I ask because I'm wondering if using the one w/o THC could be of any help. 

I'm sorry for even asking....

No, I absolutely needed it for that time. I was so grateful for it as the previous months enduring the nausea were awful. I may have been apathetic lying in bed, but I would have been in bed sick and in a lot of discomfort without it. I still keep it around for flare ups. 
 

I tried several variations, THC was the most helpful though CBD would have been perfect for rls except for the headache it also gave.  I would advise anyone who has rls to try it with the warning to start small and slowly raise the dose  and be aware of the potential for depression or apathy as well as headaches and nausea as most things that help with these may often cause them. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Calm