Relationship with Heavenly Parents

[teddyaware]

48 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It helps to believe it's man made scripture, personally. Or misunderstanding of the voices in their heads when writing it, or that it was plagiarized from the Bible, and I don't believe much of what it says how God treats His children if innocent lives were lost. Maybe it's kings or evil people killing in the name of God?

Nope. The Book of Mormon makes it clear that for the eternal welfare and blessing of his wayward children, even those who have utterly ripened in iniquity and rebellion against all that’s holy, God decrees that such people need to be destroyed in the flesh, while there’s still a chance that they might awake from the sleep of death, and learn to repent after being consigned to the spirit prison and do so before they descend even further into the darkest hues of ungodly wickedness. And remember, it was God himself who utterly destroyed the Nephite cities that had ripened in iniquity at the time of the crucifixion of Christ, not supposedly misguided earthly kings.

There is a fate that’s far worse than death, and that’s being resurrected before learning how to exercise authentic faith in Christ and sincerely repenting of one’s sins. Physical death is not the ene of the world, but instead is often the gateway into a new and better way of life that has the possibility of bringing to pass true happiness and peace of conscience.

The choice is clear: either to allow those who have ripened in iniquity to be lost forever in their unforgiven state of sinfulness, or take the hard steps that are necessary in order to save them from themselves. What people who think like you fail to realize is that your way of doing things would rob these miserable souls, whom you say you care so much about, to an eternal existence in outer darkness and unending sorrow. There are times when God has to get tough with his children in order to break their hardened hearts that they might finally be willing to let in the redeeming light of the gospel to reform and ultimately save them. God’s main job isn’t the preservation of life in this fallen state, but rather to resurrect of bodies of the dead to a blessed existence in one of his many heavenly mansions of glory.

Edited December 24, 2021 by teddyaware

[sunstoned]

4 hours ago, Teancum said:

It is absolutely a way to justify what otherwise shows God (if there is a god that does things like this) to be a rather capricious monster.

Well said.

[sunstoned]

8 hours ago, CV75 said:

What is the god you do believe in doing, and with which religions are you in alignment?

I no longer believe in one god, nor do I believe in any of the 3000+ gods of the 3000 different religions. What I do believe is that men has created their gods in their own image.  I also believe that prayer is a form meditating. The “god” I talked to every night was me, myself and I. 

[sunstoned]

10 hours ago, SkyRock said:

God looks at all His Children from an eternal perspective, much like parents look at their children from an adult perspective.  Parents know that indulging their children and keeping them from struggle stunts their growth.  Providing rules and restrictions isn't about limiting them, but about helping them. 

Muscles don't get stronger without resistance.   Growth is almost impossible without opposition.  

God is not the cause of all suffering in the world.   Much of it results from the poor choices individuals make which causes negative consequences to themselves.   Other suffering comes from the poor choices of others.  Yet other suffering comes from the temptations of Satan.  God can turn all this for our own good.

I am very grateful for the challenges and pains of my life.  Some were self-inflicted, for sure.  Much of it comes from others. 

Christ paid for all our suffering and pains, as well as our sins.   He is the perfect judge and advocate.   I have full trust that His judgment will be just.

Teenagers often think their parents and teachers are "jerks" and "unfair".  They lack the perspective and understanding of their parents.   Their parents, unlike God, are imperfect, but they love their children and attempt to do their best for them. 

 

Welcome to the discussion board SkyRock.  Once again, I do respect your opinion.  And I agree that indulging children and keeping them from struggle does stunts their growth.  I am a parent and a teacher, so this does resonate with me.  However, it your child is unrulily or makes a mistake,  you don't burry her under a mountain of rubble or drown he in a flood.  

[sunstoned]

12 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Here’s something quite interesting to ponder. In the great vision that Lehi experienced found in 1 Nephi 1, immediately after Lehi reads the book that prophetically discloses the imminent catastrophic death and destruction that will soon overretake Jerusalem and the Jews, the prophet is given a more expansive, long range glimpse into a glorious future when the atonement of Christ will heal all wounds and heal the nations. Please observe that Lehi is so overwhelmed by the positivity of what he learns, I’m spite of the death and destruction that will soon befall Jerusalem, that he has nothing but positive things to say. I have great faith that Lehi knew then much more than either you or I know now about the ultimate fate of man, and I believe God’s promise in the Book of revelation that all the saved, in any God’s post-resurrection kingdoms of glory, will remember their former sorrows no more and that God himself will wipe the tears from their eyes. Read and see…

13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.
14 And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord; such as: Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!
15 And after this manner was the language of my father in the praising of his God; for his soul did rejoice, and his whole heart was filled, because of the things which he had seen, yea, which the Lord had shown unto him. (1 Nephi 1)

 

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.  But then again, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.  I don't think the idea that heaven is really, really, cool justifies god killing innocent children and animals.  That's just how I roll.

[Chum]

Just now, sunstoned said:

I don't think the idea that heaven is really, really, cool justifies god killing innocent children and animals.  That's just how I roll.

You suck at Crusades. Also at trading children for a supply of cheap oil. In fact, I'm beginning to think your Americana levels are off.

[Chum]

8 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

However, it your child is unrulily or makes a mistake,  you don't burry her under a mountain of rubble or drown he in a flood.  

You don't know much about US Justice systems, do you?

[SkyRock]

7 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Welcome to the discussion board SkyRock.  Once again, I do respect your opinion.  And I agree that indulging children and keeping them from struggle does stunts their growth.  I am a parent and a teacher, so this does resonate with me.  However, it your child is unrulily or makes a mistake,  you don't burry her under a mountain of rubble or drown he in a flood.  

If a child has no real chance at succeeding at a test, is it fair to force them to continue?

As a teacher, would you make a child hasn't even taken algebra take the AP Calculus test?

[MacGyver]

5 hours ago, Teancum said:

Putting people to death for consensual sexual relations is pretty darn barbaric as well. Just sayin....

It's certainly very strict, but how is it barbaric?

[sunstoned]

11 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

If a child has no real chance at succeeding at a test, is it fair to force them to continue?

As a teacher, would you make a child hasn't even taken algebra take the AP Calculus test?

We are talking about killing children, adults, and animals.  In what universe does a child deserve to be killed?

[MacGyver]

5 hours ago, Teancum said:

So God can change the rules of the game anytime?

Yes and no.

There are higher laws and lower laws. God has to work within the framework of eternal laws, but can switch between higher and lower laws as he sees fit in order to best bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.  But then again, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.  I don't think the idea that heaven is really, really, cool justifies god killing innocent children and animals.  That's just how I roll.

In the future, after the resurrection, if some of these people whom you believe to be innocent victims of God’s injustice approach you and testify that because God came down in judgement upon the wicked cities in which the dwelt all things worked out for the very best, in fact much better than if he had not come down in judgement against their cities, what will you say to them in response? Will you tell them that it would have been better if things had worked out eternally for the worst, with millions dwelling in hell for eternity, just as long as the innocent of those cities didn’t have to die along with the wicked?

And as long as we’re on the subject, would it have been better for all involved if there were no infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice of the Son of God, the consequences of which would mean that all mankind would spend eternity in hell, because it isn’t fair that the Father would require his innocent Son to have to suffer as if he were personally responsible for every sin that has ever been committed? The scriptures teach that this endless hell for all mankind is what would have happened if the innocent Christ had not voluntarily suffered as if he were guilty. What will you say to Christ if one day he testifies to you that his suffering for the sins of the world was the right thing to do even though he was innocent and didn’t deserve what happened to him? Will you tell him it would have been better if all mankind had to spend eternity in hell so long as an innocent man didn’t have to suffer terrible punishment for things he didn’t do?

The law of sacrifice is how the universe works, and you can kick against the pricks and protest all you want but in the end without faith in the innocent atoning Christ,all is lost and nothing worthwhile is gained. And though for now you can’t see how it could be possible that justice and mercy will one day be fully satisfied, in the end it will be so.

Finally, the Book of Mormon explains what happens to the innocent who suffer and die with or at the hands of the wicked…

9 And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire.
10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.
11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day. (Alma 14)

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by teddyaware

[SkyRock]

59 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

We are talking about killing children, adults, and animals.  In what universe does a child deserve to be killed?

This life is merely a test.  It isn't eternity.  Young children are saved, getting a pass, in effect.   For children that had no opportunity to do good, this was a gift.   Try not to narrow your thinking. 

Our ways are not his ways.   We don't fully understand how it will all work out.  As such, either a person trust in our benevolent God or doesn't.  Since God has a plan to save young children who die young, you are obsessing with a non issue, but one that atheists like to bring up. 

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.  But then again, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.  I don't think the idea that heaven is really, really, cool justifies god killing innocent children and animals.  That's just how I roll.

I am surprised you actually believe something that simplistic. We do not live in a deterministic universe. We make mistakes and the universe itself is unpredictable.

All we can control is our attitude.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

This life is merely a test.  It isn't eternity.  Young children are saved, getting a pass, in effect.   For children that had no opportunity to do good, this was a gift.   Try not to narrow your thinking. 

Our ways are not his ways.   We don't fully understand how it will all work out.  As such, either a person trust in our benevolent God or doesn't.  Since God has a plan to save young children who die young, you are obsessing with a non issue, but one that atheists like to bring up. 

You are more patient than I am!

Good for you!   

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, SkyRock said:

you are obsessing with a non issue,

I don’t believe “obsessing” is the right term since he was invited by the opening poster to talk about man’s relationship to God. He was not the one to bring up the subject, merely responding to it. 
 

It is best, imo, not to label other posters with emotional reactions based on their comments if they are assertive when sharing thoughts since this is the purpose of the board.  Much is simply responding in the same tone we perceive in others…a strong sense of certainty will be mirrored by the same. If the second is read as obsessing, then should not the first be?

[CV75]

7 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I no longer believe in one god, nor do I believe in any of the 3000+ gods of the 3000 different religions. What I do believe is that men has created their gods in their own image.  I also believe that prayer is a form meditating. The “god” I talked to every night was me, myself and I. 

So you're a trinity!  

[CV75]

7 hours ago, sunstoned said:

We are talking about killing children, adults, and animals.  In what universe does a child deserve to be killed?

It is not a matter of deservedness, but as you can see, we each comprehend different universes with different laws and standards.

The wickedness, iniquity and abominations of the accountable always cause innocent children to suffer and die, whether quickly or slowly, mortally or spiritually. That is how their extorted dominion (an unrighteous dominion) works. On the rare occasion God exacts immediate justice upon the accountable, as related with great clarity and specificity in the Book of Mormon, it changes nothing of the suffering and death they would have inflicted upon the innocent over a longer period of time. So God stops them once they have crossed an intolerable line or threshold of interference with the Lord's plan for how things roll out according to prophecy. The innocent have thus gained an advantage of mercy.

[BRMC]

7 hours ago, sunstoned said:

We are talking about killing children, adults, and animals.  In what universe does a child deserve to be killed?

You're looking at things from a mortal perspective.  From an eternal perspective, things look much different.

[CA Steve]

24 minutes ago, BRMC said:

From an eternal perspective, things look much different.

How would you know?

[BRMC]

14 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

How would you know?

I suppose I wouldn't, exactly.  However, simply removing the concept that death is the end changes perspective.   Dying simply changes the nature of your existence.

[CA Steve]

2 minutes ago, BRMC said:

I suppose I wouldn't, exactly.  However, simply removing the concept that death is the end changes perspective.   Dying simply changes the nature of your existence.

Did sunstoned claim that death is the end? If not, I fail to see your point.

Edited December 24, 2021 by CA Steve

[BRMC]

Just now, CA Steve said:

Did sunstoned claim that death is the end? If not, I fail to see your point.

Perhaps sunstoned saw it.

[teddyaware]

17 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

How would you know?

How about by the power of the Holy Ghost? 

[CA Steve]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

How about by the power of the Holy Ghost? 

The HG has told me pretty much everything you post is nonsense.