Plural marriage, the priesthood, and exaltation

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

With the rise of polyamory (see this recent SLTrib article https://www.sltrib.com/amplify-utah/2021/12/23/utahns-share-why-they/ ), and legal recognition of polyamorous relationships in some places (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/us/somerville-polyamorous-domestic-partnership.html), it's going to get harder and harder to legally deny polygamous relationships (regardless of sexual configuration) access to actual marriage law.

And if truly consensual and if there are decent laws protecting any children involved from becoming ping pongs (bad enough instability often shared custody with two parents; parents who keep the children in the same house all the time and they make the sacrifices to move around are the better way IMO if at all possible), I would have no issue with it.  I would be interested to see what the reaction is of more traditional members who are comfortable enough with the idea of plural marriage returning if the Church does not remove polygamy from the apostasy list and if polyandry and polyamory (think that is the term) are obviously part of how polygamy is practiced in our society, rather than just the more traditional polygyny.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Calm

[Stargazer]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:01 AM, kimpearson said:

Since so many of you are sure polygamy will be part of the Celestial kingdom, I would like to hear your thoughts on how that might work.  Would a man with numerous wives have a separate world or worlds for each wife?  When he was off with one wife, would the other wives rule in his place?  Would the man rule all the worlds he creates along with all of his wives?  Would each wive have separate but equal time with the man or would they just be a happy group altogether at the same time?  Please explain how the women in a polygamous celestial marriage would feel equal to the man?

One of the things I find frustrating is how difficult people find it getting their own mortal circumstances out of their heads and try to imagine what God's life is really like. I'm pretty sure He doesn't set his alarm clock for 7 am every night, and upon awakening, doesn't eat breakfast (two eggs over easy, 2 slices buttered toast, hash browns, 2 or 4 slices of bacon, and a small stack of flapjacks with butter and maple syrup) while perusing today's edition of Eternal Bulletin and Angel Times. He then doesn't get into his sunshine-powered Tesla (yes, bought direct from the resurrected Elon Musk) and then drive to his office on 42nd Street in Kolob City, where he will not spend the day managing the Universe from his super-futuristic solid-gold desk. Oh, yes, and then at 5 pm he won't drive home to whichever wife dwells on the current planet he's inhabiting this week.

Give me a break.

It seems we are as incapable of imagining what eternal life will be like as a five year old is at imaging what life as an adult will be like. Or at least, we don't seem to allow for the fact that we're as ignorant as blocks of wood as to what it will be like for us if we ever manage to qualify for that life.

Can we please stop using our faulty, miserable lives as a source for how we understand it will be then?

Let your mind soar for a moment. Contemplate this:

God created the Universe, and all its billions (if not trillions) of galaxies about 13.5 billion years ago. The Universe will continue on for the next 300 billion years (and more, likely as not), until He rolls it all back up and starts over. But God does not live in the Universe, but outside it. Otherwise, if he lived IN it, then he would have had to have created himself at the same time he created the Universe, which is an absurdity. He has access to all of it, and for the entire stretch of time of its existence -- and all at once, because time does not exist for him. In other words, he does not exist in what we call Time. So he is able to hear the prayers of not only every person in mortality on earth, but every person in the Spirit World who is still waiting to be resurrected, and even further, the prayers of every son and daughter who currently inhabit every earth that he has created, and knows the thoughts and deeds of all of his children on every planet from the moment the first one woke until the very last one at the end of Time. It's beyond your understanding, but that's the flipping point.

So, if God is able to know what you and I are doing at any given moment, and is familiar with every thing we've ever done (and will ever do), don't you think he can equally be spending time simultaneously with every wife he has, and none of them gets neglected? 

But feel free to content yourself with the little fiction that Eternal Life will be just like here in mortality, just with better food, housing, and no need for medical care. Gosh that would be boring.

On 12/21/2021 at 6:01 AM, kimpearson said:

I would also like to hear you explain the blessings and joy that would come from practicing polygamy  today if the Church were to reinstate it?

I'd rather not. I'm happy to have it in the past.

On 12/21/2021 at 6:01 AM, kimpearson said:

If it is something that will exist in the Celestial kingdom, then it's practice should bring about happiness and joy for all parties whenever it is practiced.  Something can't be part of the eternities in the Celestial kingdom that doesn't bring blessing of joy and happiness if practiced in this life.

Does the practice of monogamous marriage always bring about happiness and joy for all parties whenever it is practiced? No? Does this mean that we'd be better off single and in the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms? I should hope not. Though your mileage may vary.

Like I said, try to get your mind out of the limitations of mortality and imagine how different eternity will be. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:16 PM, juliann said:

More likely, the biological need to collect women to produce offspring and glory are what doesn't exist in the CK. Again, what is the point of plural marriage in heaven? What purpose does it serve when all of the earthly excuses for it no longer exist? 

Now, there's an excellent question! And one that had never crossed my mind before.

To which I don't have the answer, of course, but do you trust God enough to trust whatever answer He has, if it turns out that plural marriage is an eternal principle for exalted beings? I do! If it turned out contrary to my own expectations, and there were no such thing as plural marriage for exalted beings, I'd be happy with that, too.

And I love that you mention "earthly excuses," because obviously spirit children will not be generated using the same fleshy methods we use here on earth to produce mortal children. We are not told how spirit children are generated, though modern scriptures imply that they are generated from raw intelligences. How is this done, I wonder? I can imagine that the raising up of intelligences to the level of being sent into mortality for trial as potential eternal beings is some very important work, and very special people are required to carry it out.

And I wonder this: are Mothers in heaven doing the same work as Fathers in heaven? Or are their responsibilities as separate but just as mutually supporting as they are (or are supposed to be) here on earth? Do Father and Mother in Heaven engender spirit children together (in some non-fleshy way), and then Father builds the Universe(s), such as setting in motion the suns and planets, while keeping them all in good order, while Mother takes the lioness's share of raising the spirits? How many billions of spirit children can one Mother in Heaven manage? Perhaps it takes more than one.

That's at least one possible answer to your question as to what purpose does it serve when all the earthly excuses for it no longer exist.

We are told that apart from obvious differences (such as immortality and so on) the patterns of earth life reflect the patterns of eternal life -- at least for those who are worthy of the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom.

Much of the above constitutes new thoughts that came into my head while I was responding to your post, and for that triggering I thank you! It helped me clarify some things that I had previously been perplexed about.

I know that you and I have clashed more than once on this subject, and I apologize again for those times when I was a cause of frustration or vexation for you. 

May you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

And I wonder this: are Mothers in heaven doing the same work as Fathers in heaven? Or are their responsibilities as separate but just as mutually supporting as they are (or are supposed to be) here on earth?

The work of those who achieve exaltation and godhood is the same for everyone, male or female.

To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.  IE, to perpetuate Gods.

However that works functionally it's a male/female joint effort and it's based in family.

[Chum]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Can we please stop using our faulty, miserable lives as a source for how we understand it will be then?

Why? You put humans in a situation and you get a human situation. Got one here. Gonna have one there.

[sunstoned]

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

If you do not believe in God or holiness in the first place, why would this, and its heavenly application, even be an issue?

It seems the issue for you instead concerns a secular-based morality that you have not articulated in social, scientific or other "empirical" terms -- and of course any debate, by nature, relies on evidence that supports the bias, which is why it has been debated so often.

The interesting discussion to me would be on areas where religious and secular values meet, but that played out already, in the USA at least, some 130+ years ago. So the saints live with it, having compromised a degree of religious freedom to practice one tenet for the freedom to get people baptized and sealed (living and dead). Anyone practicing polygamy is doing it without the sanction of those with the sealing keys.

Individually, what would the heavenly compromise be for multiple women who are dissatisfied being sealed to one man, and his Christlike concern for them? This might fall outside your scope of interest since it deals with the hereafter, which is not empirically proven. But the purpose of plural marriages, for those who choose that arrangement, would be to do godly things (whatever they may be; the choice would be the consenting adults' and approved by Christ), all sealings having been rendered to Christ by Adam. It makes good sense within the parameters of the faith.

Qualifier: everyone has their own journey. The following applies to me only.

It is hard to explain, but it is an issue to me.  It, along with other aspects of the church doctrine, culture and beliefs are issues (not sure if that is the right word) for me. Even though I have left, all of it is still part of me. I was a committed member for over 40 years.  I am a RM, BIC and Temple married. Lots of church jobs, lots of tithing paid, etc. You have all heard these types of stories many times before.  The bottom line is, as traumatizing as my decision was, you just can't cleanly walk away from something that consumed over half of your life.  Mormonism is my culture and my pedigree, and I am never far away from it.  This forum is part of that.  I've been listening and learning from you folks for over fifteen years.

[sunstoned]

6 hours ago, why me said:

Most of us struggle. Life is a struggle. The lds church is a struggle. However, if JS was a prophet, it was  a needed struggle. If he wasn't a prophet, it was a useless struggle.

Agreed.

[Rain]

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Now, there's an excellent question! And one that had never crossed my mind before.

To which I don't have the answer, of course, but do you trust God enough to trust whatever answer He has, if it turns out that plural marriage is an eternal principle for exalted beings? I do! If it turned out contrary to my own expectations, and there were no such thing as plural marriage for exalted beings, I'd be happy with that, too.

And I love that you mention "earthly excuses," because obviously spirit children will not be generated using the same fleshy methods we use here on earth to produce mortal children. We are not told how spirit children are generated, though modern scriptures imply that they are generated from raw intelligences. How is this done, I wonder? I can imagine that the raising up of intelligences to the level of being sent into mortality for trial as potential eternal beings is some very important work, and very special people are required to carry it out.

And I wonder this: are Mothers in heaven doing the same work as Fathers in heaven? Or are their responsibilities as separate but just as mutually supporting as they are (or are supposed to be) here on earth? Do Father and Mother in Heaven engender spirit children together (in some non-fleshy way), and then Father builds the Universe(s), such as setting in motion the suns and planets, while keeping them all in good order, while Mother takes the lioness's share of raising the spirits? How many billions of spirit children can one Mother in Heaven manage? Perhaps it takes more than one.

If that is how it is then I most definitely want Heavenly Father's job and not Heavenly Mother's.  I do not regret having children.  I love them and am glad I have them, but there is all too much pain in mothering children to have my husband going off and doing the fun creative things and leaving me to do the mothering.  

But honestly, from what has been revealed we see God doing the nurturing and Heavenly Mother doing.. what?

So either I go with your idea and be in pain for eternity or I do nothing useful enough for my children to know about it. But either way I have to share my best friend, the love of my life with another woman.

Seriously, with the way heaven is sometimes described it's a wonder any woman wants to go there.

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

That's at least one possible answer to your question as to what purpose does it serve when all the earthly excuses for it no longer exist.

We are told that apart from obvious differences (such as immortality and so on) the patterns of earth life reflect the patterns of eternal life -- at least for those who are worthy of the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom.

Much of the above constitutes new thoughts that came into my head while I was responding to your post, and for that triggering I thank you! It helped me clarify some things that I had previously been perplexed about.

I know that you and I have clashed more than once on this subject, and I apologize again for those times when I was a cause of frustration or vexation for you. 

May you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Rain

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

Why? You put humans in a situation and you get a human situation. Got one here. Gonna have one there.

To be fair putting human into fallen bodies that drive them to be carnal, sensual, and devilish probably skews things here.

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

The work of those who achieve exaltation and godhood is the same for everyone, male or female.

Is it? Prove it.

Note that I actually don't have a dog in this hunt. I just have a theory that I cannot prove.

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.  IE, to perpetuate Gods.

Just because the goal is the same for all, doesn't make the labor the same for all. You will note that the goal of human families is to raise their children to functional adulthood. Do mothers do the same work in this as the fathers do? You know they don't.

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

However that works functionally it's a male/female joint effort and it's based in family.

Of course, but you don't know any more than anyone else does whether there is a division of labor or responsibility. 

But the mere fact that there are males and there are females is highly suggestive that they don't have the same kind of work. Because if they did, and they were totally equal in task and responsibility, then they might as well be the same sex.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Stargazer

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

they were totally equal in task and responsibility, then they might as well be the same sex.

But gender/sex is eternal, so even if they might as well be the same, they can’t be, right?

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

If that is how it is then I most definitely want Heavenly Father's job and not Heavenly Mother's.  I do not regret having children.  I love them and am glad I have them, but there is all too much pain in mothering children to have my husband going off and doing the fun creative things and leaving me to do the mothering.  

As I have pointed out in another post, it's my theory, not necessarily what reality will be. My primary purpose for the post was to suggest a division of labor in some sense where both work together towards a common goal. And my suggested task for Father as the builder of worlds, and Mother as the builder of souls, is likewise just my speculation. It could just as well be the other way around. Or their responsibilities could be completely mutual and interpenetrated, even if somewhat compartmentalized (because if there were no need for task division then God might as well be single, or have a partner or partners of the same gender).

And beware that you are mapping your experience with mothering in mortality too closely to mothering in eternity. You will never (I theorize) ever be pregnant again, nor will you suckle babies, nor will you bandage cuts and burns, or comfort her when your child falls down and hurts herself on the hard ground. The work of turning intelligences into spirit children will likely have little to no resemblance to mortal parenting, and you may find the work as Heavenly Mother to be incredibly engaging and infinitely rewarding. Let me tell you that when men go to work every day to earn the daily bread, there can be a great deal of pain involved in that, as well. Ask yourself how many men are laboring in a field that they enjoy, or find interesting? Some of us guys are miserable at work, either because the nature of the work sucks, our boss is a complete xxxxxx, or our coworkers are either useless or worse than useless. Just as some mothers dream of how nice it would be to work in some interesting field, rather than be cooped with little children all day, some fathers dream of how nice it would be to stay home with the kids ("Mrs. Doubtfire"). 

But you want to build worlds? Fine, why not.

My message in all this is simply this: you have no real idea what eternal life will be like, so don't sell yourself short like Esau did when he traded his birthright for lentil stew. 

And for heaven's sake, stop thinking that when your heavenly husband goes off to visit one of the other heavenly mothers that it will leave you all alone and abandoned. Remember that your Heavenly Father knows everything you do at all times, can make Himself felt in your life instantly at all times, even though He is similarly interacting with every single other heavenly child of his! How then will you ever be without your heavenly husband? That's assuming plural marriage in eternity, of course.

And besides, there's no sex in eternity. Or at least, not in the same sense we have here in mortality.

[Stargazer]

35 minutes ago, Calm said:

But gender/sex is eternal, so even if they might as well be the same, they can’t be, right?

Right.

In all this, my goal is to get people to open up their minds and their souls to the actual possibilities of Eternal Life, and God's actual work, lifting themselves away from the mundane necessities, annoyances, and despair inherent in mortal life, and realize that if life in the Telestial Kingdom is wonderful beyond comprehension, which it is, then Eternal Life in the Celestial Kingdom is so far beyond imagining that fussing about certain imagined negative aspects of it is a complete waste of energy and time. 

1 Cor 2:9 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Long time ago, in 1979 after my divorce from my first wife, I was incredibly despondent. I made a little pilgrimage to Mount Rainier National Park in Washington state (not far from where I was stationed in the Army), and spent a few days up near the top of the neighboring Eagle Peak, all by myself with tent, sleeping bag, and freeze-dried food. I spent some quality time with Father in prayer during this trip, and on the second day I sat at the edge of the ridgeline facing Mount Rainier and read to myself, out loud, the entire text of D&C 76, "The Vision". A day later I came down from that mountain revitalized and at peace. It was as if I could now see the end from the beginning, and though I couldn't see how everything would unfold from that point, I knew that as long as I kept my covenants, in obedience, faith, and trust, all would be well in the end.

I recommend this to everyone, by the way, at least the reading out loud part, no need to climb a mountain. Do it periodically. And thereby realize the vast expanse of possibilities you can perceive from this great revelation.

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, Chum said:

Why? You put humans in a situation and you get a human situation. Got one here. Gonna have one there.

Yes, I know it's hard to get one's mind out of the gutter where we normally live. 

But I like to think that Eternal Life will be better than I can imagine.

[Navidad]

16 hours ago, why me said:

Most of us struggle. Life is a struggle. The lds church is a struggle. However, if JS was a prophet, it was  a needed struggle. If he wasn't a prophet, it was a useless struggle.

I am not sure I understand this kind of binary thinking? It is a form of "if you are not for us, you are against us!" Anyone or anything that leads us to Christ and the atonement is a beneficial force in our life. Coming to Christ is never a "useless" process. It matters not if it is Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, or the Pope who leads us to the Savior. Best wishes to all on this special day that reminds of the Savior.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

I am not sure I understand this kind of binary thinking? It is a form of "if you are not for us, you are against us!" Anyone or anything that leads us to Christ and the atonement is a beneficial force in our life. Coming to Christ is never a "useless" process. It matters not if it is Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, or the Pope who leads us to the Savior. Best wishes to all on this special day that reminds of the Savior.

Can't like this enough!

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

As I have pointed out in another post, it's my theory, not necessarily what reality will be. My primary purpose for the post was to suggest a division of labor in some sense where both work together towards a common goal. And my suggested task for Father as the builder of worlds, and Mother as the builder of souls, is likewise just my speculation. It could just as well be the other way around.

I got why you were doing it. 

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Or their responsibilities could be completely mutual and interpenetrated, even if somewhat compartmentalized (because if there were no need for task division then God might as well be single, or have a partner or partners of the same gender).

And beware that you are mapping your experience with mothering in mortality too closely to mothering in eternity. You will never (I theorize) ever be pregnant again, nor will you suckle babies, nor will you bandage cuts and burns, or comfort her when your child falls down and hurts herself on the hard ground. The work of turning intelligences into spirit children will likely have little to no resemblance to mortal parenting, and you may find the work as Heavenly Mother to be incredibly engaging and infinitely rewarding.

I'm a type 1 diabetic who had severe preeclampsia and had all of my children 5-9 weeks early.  I spent a lot of time in the hospital and my children did too.  

This was a struggle and pain I felt when leaving the hospital without them, but it is not the pain I am talking about.

I am not talking about the pain I felt when my children were hurting from cuts and scraps, nor from when they were in the hospital later with RSV and turning blue from lack of oxygen.  

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Let me tell you that when men go to work every day to earn the daily bread, there can be a great deal of pain involved in that, as well. Ask yourself how many men are laboring in a field that they enjoy, or find interesting? Some of us guys are miserable at work, either because the nature of the work sucks, our boss is a complete xxxxxx, or our coworkers are either useless or worse than useless.

I get the pain.  I see it in my husband sometimes.  I felt it when I was working sometimes.  I am there for my husband because I want to do what I can to ease that suffering. But honestly I think it is nothing compared to what I am talking about.

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Just as some mothers dream of how nice it would be to work in some interesting field, rather than be cooped with little children all day, some fathers dream of how nice it would be to stay home with the kids ("Mrs. Doubtfire"). 

Yep, not what I am talking about.

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

But you want to build worlds? Fine, why not.

My message in all this is simply this: you have no real idea what eternal life will be like, so don't sell yourself short like Esau did when he traded his birthright for lentil stew. 

Here's the thing.  I don't sell myself short. I don't worry about it will be like.  I think your theory and the extremely limited info we know from the church is the things selling women short. I can deal with it because I feel that love and power from God, but there are so many women who struggle with it and what you and the church have shared doesn't help their understanding of their great value in God"s eyes.  

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

And for heaven's sake, stop thinking that when your heavenly husband goes off to visit one of the other heavenly mothers that it will leave you all alone and abandoned. Remember that your Heavenly Father knows everything you do at all times, can make Himself felt in your life instantly at all times, even though He is similarly interacting with every single other heavenly child of his!

And yet he chooses not to when some people are going through horrible, horrible things?  I actually get it so don't worry about trying to explain that to me.  But if a woman has gone through those horrible things without feeling God helping her then what you have said about isn't going to help her with the idea of polygamy.  "Have faith.  Your husband will be able to make himself available, but may choose not to just as God chose not to make himself felt when you went through the worst time of your life."

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

How then will you ever be without your heavenly husband? That's assuming plural marriage in eternity, of course.

And besides, there's no sex in eternity. Or at least, not in the same sense we have here in mortality.

Where did you get the idea that there is no sex in eternity?  Is that actually documented anywhere? Don't worry about searching for it.  I don't actually care, I just have not heard that so I'm not sure it is true.

The pain I am talking about is the pain of losing more than 1/3 of your children.  We talk about Heavenly Father losing them, but we never talk about the pain Heavenly Mother felt or the terrible weight of responsibility she bares since she is the one there who is actually caring for them...or is she?    

Don't get me wrong. I feel secure about the next life.  I feel that connection. It's just the theories and very little church info we get about a woman's place in the next life do nothing to help women make that connection and just throw salt on their wounds in the mean time.

 

[Olmec Donald]

13 hours ago, Navidad said:

I am not sure I understand this kind of binary thinking? It is a form of "if you are not for us, you are against us!" Anyone or anything that leads us to Christ and the atonement is a beneficial force in our life. Coming to Christ is never a "useless" process. It matters not if it is Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, or the Pope who leads us to the Savior. Best wishes to all on this special day that reminds of the Savior.

I totally agree with you.  What you have described is an oft-forgotten part of Mormonism. 

From Moroni chapter 7, verses 12-16:

"Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

"But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

"Therefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

"For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

 "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God."

Just to make sure the distinction between what is and is not of God is perfectly clear, the very next verse tells us how to know when something is not of God:

"But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him."

Edited December 26, 2021 by Olmec Donald

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

and just throw salt on their wounds in the mean time.

Is it better then that nothing were said at all in an attempt to assuage these fears? 

As for the "no sex" thing, that's just me talking. I am assuming that what we do here as a mutual and physical expression of love, absent the goal of reproduction, that whatever replaces it must be something far more fulfilling that what we know here. After all, we won't need to breathe, and we won't need to eat. What other fleshy activities won't we need? To probably be replaced by far better things?

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Olmec Donald said:

I totally agree with you.  What you have described is an oft-forgotten part of Mormonism. 

From Moroni chapter 7, verses 12-16:

"Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

"But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

"Therefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

"For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

 "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God."

Just to make sure the distinction between what is and is not of God is perfectly clear, the very next verse tells us how to know when something is not of God:

"But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him."

In my experience this IS Mormonism.  Period

 

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Is it better then that nothing were said at all in an attempt to assuage these fears? 

Don't try to fix their feelings.  Validate their feelings.

Try to understand why they would have those fears.  Once you understand then let them know you see why they fear.  When you understand and they can trust you then MAYBE it's time you can assuage their fears, but if you really understand them you may find a different way to do it or may find you just need to mourn with them till the Spirit is the one who does the assuaging.

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

As for the "no sex" thing, that's just me talking. I am assuming that what we do here as a mutual and physical expression of love, absent the goal of reproduction, that whatever replaces it must be something far more fulfilling that what we know here. After all, we won't need to breathe, and we won't need to eat. What other fleshy activities won't we need? To probably be replaced by far better things?

Do we know we won't need to breathe or eat or do we just assume that eternal beings don't need to?

[JLHPROF]

57 minutes ago, Rain said:

Do we know we won't need to breathe or eat or do we just assume that eternal beings don't need to?

Well they can't suffocate or starve...🤷

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Well they can't suffocate or starve...🤷

I hope it won't feel awful, not to be able to eat or even talk. I've heard both might happen.

[Rain]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Well they can't suffocate or starve...🤷

So we don't know.   

I get it.  Logically we could work it out and come to that conclusion, but the more I know about the next life the more I realize we don't know very much at all so that may mean there are some things that we thought were working out logically, but we are missing key information.  

I have to say I always so strongly assumed we wouldn't need to breathe that I never even thought about it (I did think about eating) till it was talked about above and then that triggered curiosity about whether we actually knew that.  

Edited December 26, 2021 by Rain

[Calm]

It never occurred to me we wouldn’t breathe, lol.