Covid III: Delta Force

[Orthodox Christian]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

We all were…I mentioned you directly because everyone else has had the lecture before…mandates are not science, medical info.

If you have studies on infection and hospitalization rates, comparisons of variants, vaccine info etc…that belongs in this thread. 
 

One way of looking at it is this thread is about how the Covid virus behaves, the “other” thread is about how people behave in the context of the virus. 

Ah I see, apologies

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Ah I see, apologies

No need to apologize, if I wasn’t so obsessed with collecting medical info (more having others do it for me lately), this thread could run free and wild. It is on me the first time.  

Edited December 18, 2021 by Calm

[CA Steve]

22 hours ago, Chum said:

It is one thing when insufficient resources forces us to ration what we can provide.

But if we can supply a basic need and deny that based only on a calculation - I believe that isn't in harmony with the example that the Savior set. Doing that by default is evidence we have lost our way.

I am not advocating abandoning people, and resources are always a problem, especially with covid where the unvaccinated are causing those with other medical needs to go without. This issue hits very close to home with me as my wife nearly had a lifesaving cancer surgery postponed due to a surge in covid. We literally had to persuade the hospital administrator to proceed with the surgery as she was being prepped for it. He felt it was "elective", as if an aggressive cancerous brain tumor resection was "elective!" She would be dead now if she did not have that operation.

There has to be penalties for those who choose not to vaccinate and risk other peoples lives by doing so. There are some in place now and there needs to be lots more. Claiming people have to pay for poor decisions has nothing to do with Christ and it is offensive to suggest that someone is not Christlike if they are arguing to save more lives, not less.

Edited December 19, 2021 by CA Steve

[Calm]

40 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

She would be dead now if she did not have that operation.

How is she doing, if you don’t mind sharing.

[CA Steve]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

How is she doing, if you don’t mind sharing.

Her prognosis at diagnosis in May of 2019 was 18 months, so she has beat that but the cost has been enormous. Two brain resections (an operation to remove a tumor in the brain), four chemotherapies, radiation, and a recent  compression fracture in her lower back that is giving her excruciating pain. She has lost a significant portion of her eyesight and deals with constant nausea and dizziness. There are also significant losses in cognition and emotional outburst. I would not have been able to go though what she has been through. 

So she is alive but it has been an incredibly difficult two and a half years, made more difficult by covid and even more difficult by those who will not follow medical advise on it. She desperately wants to attend church but our ward (we are no longer in CA) does not wear masks, socially distance or vaccinate much. So she cannot go. 

 

Thanks for asking Calm.

Edited December 19, 2021 by CA Steve

[Chum]

4 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I am not advocating abandoning people, and resources are always a problem, especially with covid where the unvaccinated are causing those with other medical needs to go without. This issue hits very close to home with me as my wife nearly had a lifesaving cancer surgery postponed due to a surge in covid. We literally had to persuade the hospital administrator to proceed with the surgery as she was being prepped for it. He felt it was "elective", as if an aggressive cancerous brain tumor resection was "elective!" She would be dead now if she did not have that operation.

There has to be penalties for those who choose not to vaccinate and risk other peoples lives by doing so. There are some in place now and there needs to be lots more. Claiming people have to pay for poor decisions has nothing to do with Christ and it is offensive to suggest that someone is not Christlike if they are arguing to save more lives, not less.

I have some questions or observations or something. The issue with the hospital admin classifying critical surgery as elective - this makes it harder to ascertain whether non-elective surgery is prioritized over Covid care.

There's the question of whether Covid overfilling led to the admin's bad judgment. Maybe. It may also be that admin's judgment always sucked and Covid overfilling gave it an opportunity to manifest.

More likely I think is that a few voices resulted in her surgery originally being sidelined and that those opinions were shaped by months of pandemic circumstances - and perhaps most heavily shaped by the current overfill.

[Calm]

Quote

The omicron neutralizing efficacy of nine monoclonal antibodies was tested in the study. Some of these antibodies are approved for clinical use, including bamlanivimab, etesevimab, casirivimab, imdevimab, and sotrovimab.

All tested antibodies showed neutralizing titers against wild-type virus and alpha variant. However, only 7 and 5 out of 9 antibodies showed neutralizing efficacy against the delta and beta variants, respectively.

Seven out of 9 antibodies failed to induce neutralizing antibodies regarding the omicron variant.

 

Quote

The study findings reveal that the two-dose immunization with mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines is insufficient to prevent the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2. Similarly, antibodies developed in response to natural SARS-CoV-2 infection largely fail to neutralize the variant.

Importantly, the study highlights that a third booster dose of mRNA vaccine is highly efficient in neutralizing the omicron variant. Similarly, a single-dose vaccination in COVID-19 recovered individuals is sufficient to prevent omicron infection.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211215/Monoclonal-antibody-activity-against-SARS-CoV-2-Omicron-variant.aspx

[Calm]

Courtesy of a friend…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/covid-loses-90-of-ability-to-infect-within-five-minutes-in-air-study?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/t-cells-common-colds-can-provide-protection-against-covid-19-study-2022-01-10/

[Calm]

Other interesting articles:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/loss-of-basic-taste-after-covid-19-more-common-than-thought
 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-mrna-booster-vaccine-offers-best-protection-against-omicron

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-did-omicron-evolve-in-mice

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/omicron-infection-what-are-the-symptoms
 

[Calm]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787975
 

Quote

Findings  This cohort study of 24 114 participants found that community-living middle-aged and older adults with confirmed, probable, or suspected COVID-19 had nearly 2-fold higher odds of worsening mobility and physical function compared with adults without COVID-19, although most participants with COVID-19 had mild to moderate disease and were not hospitalized.

Meaning  These findings suggest that individuals with mild and moderate COVID-19 who were predominantly not hospitalized experienced deficits in functional mobility compared with those without COVID-19

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788213

Quote

On January 6, JAMA Associate Editor Preeti Malani, MD, MSJ, a professor of medicine in the Division of Infectious Diseases at the University of Michigan Medical School and the university’s chief health officer, sat down with Amanda Cohn, MD, of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), to discuss the first year of COVID-19 vaccines and what the future of vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 might look like.

 

 

[Calm]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2787927
 

Quote

Investigators reported the first clinical trial results for CoVac-1, a COVID-19 vaccine candidate designed to induce T-cell immunity, in Nature. The multipeptide-based vaccine had a favorable safety profile and induced a broad and potent T-cell response.

Developed at the University of Tübingen in Germany, CoVac-1 is an adjuvanted vaccine candidate that includes 6 SARS-CoV-2 peptides recognized by recovering patients’ T cells. The phase 1 open-label trial tested a single subcutaneous CoVac-1 injection among 36 healthy adults in Germany aged 18 to 80 years.

No serious or life-threatening adverse events occurred through day 56. All participants developed an expected injection-site granuloma and about a third reported transient fatigue. Other adverse events included localized redness, swelling, and ulcerations, and 22% of participants reported swollen lymph nodes in the groin area. Two individuals experienced reactivations of varicella-zoster virus and herpes simplex virus.

The candidate elicited a range of T-cell responses, including interferon-γ T-cell responses that lasted through 3 months and exceeded those induced by SARS-CoV-2 infection and approved vaccines. In laboratory tests, mutated peptides from SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern including Delta did not affect the T-cell responses.

“[C]oVac-1 may well serve as a (complementary) vaccine to induce T-cell immunity, particularly in elderly and immunocompromised individuals with impaired ability to mount sufficient immune responses after SARS-CoV-2 vaccination with currently approved vaccines,” the authors wrote. A trial is now evaluating the investigational vaccine among patients with B-cell deficiencies.

 

[Calm]

 

https://preview.shorthand.com/bU3SlWlt1jmCWBr1?

Story of 45 year old, otherwise healthy, had delayed vaccination due to bad reaction to an anthrax vaccine, ended up 96 days in hospital, including at UoU.

Goes into detail about the illness and treatment, thought some might be interested in that, though disturbing at times.  
 

I was surprised they included as much of the faith comments as they did, wonder if that was part of the family’s agreement to share the story or to create a fuller picture of the experience. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/safrican-study-suggests-omicron-less-severe-even-unvaccinated-2022-01-14/?

[Calm]

https://www.who.int/news/item/14-01-2022-who-recommends-two-new-drugs-to-treat-covid-19

[Calm]

https://www.sciencealert.com/new-research-suggests-you-can-use-and-decontaminate-the-same-n95-respirator-at-least-25-times

One variant name we likely won’t need to learn…

https://www.sciencealert.com/purported-deltacron-hybrid-virus-almost-certainly-doesn-t-exist-scientists-say

Quote

Let's not use words like Deltacron, flurona or flurone. Please," tweeted Maria van Kerkhove, an infectious disease epidemiologist at the WHO.

"These words imply combination of viruses/variants and this is not happening," she said.

While people can suffer from influenza and coronavirus at the same time, the two viruses cannot combine.

In contrast to new variants of COVID-19 such as Omicron, which greatly impact the course of the pandemic, cases of simultaneous infection of the flu and coronavirus are nothing new.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2022/01/18/pfizer-says-its-covid-antiviral-pill-is-effective-against-omicron-variant/?

[CA Steve]

Question for those on both sides of the vaccine issue.

I just moved into a brand new house. 30 days after we moved in we got to present the builder with a punch list of repairs that need fixing. Our list was not very long but as part of my list I included the requirement that all workers who had to go into my house needed to be vaccinated. I have been very clear on this issue with the builder throughout the entire construction and occupation process, in that any personnel we met with either at the house or in a design office or sales office or closing office had to be vaccinated. They are aware of my wife's health issues and the risks she faces with exposure to Covid.

The builder is telling me he cannot find qualified vaccinated people to do a couple of the items on my list, one item in particular will take several days of in-house work to correct.

Do I have the right to demand workers be vaccinated who come in or can the builder deny service because he cannot find workers who are vaccinated?

 

What do you think?

[Raingirl]

5 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Question for those on both sides of the vaccine issue.

I just moved into a brand new house. 30 days after we moved in we got to present the builder with a punch list of repairs that need fixing. Our list was not very long but as part of my list I included the requirement that all workers who had to go into my house needed to be vaccinated. I have been very clear on this issue with the builder throughout the entire construction and occupation process, in that any personnel we met with either at the house or in a design office or sales office or closing office had to be vaccinated. They are aware of my wife's health issues and the risks she faces with exposure to Covid.

The builder is telling me he cannot find qualified vaccinated people to do a couple of the items on my list, one item in particular will take several days of in-house work to correct.

Do I have the right to demand workers be vaccinated who come in or can the builder deny service because he cannot find workers who are vaccinated?

 

What do you think?

I work in construction contracting. Vaccination and other Covid requirements are common. I don’t believe the builder when he says he can’t find vaccinated workers. 
 

I don’t know what all laws may be involved here, but you’ve been clear with your builder from the beginning, so he’s just being a giant (censored). 
 

A phone call to your state’s Construction Contractor Board could be helpful. 
 

I’ll try to talk to someone at work and see if anyone has any advice. 
 

Protecting your wife is crucial. Stick to your guns. 

[bsjkki]

33 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Question for those on both sides of the vaccine issue.

I just moved into a brand new house. 30 days after we moved in we got to present the builder with a punch list of repairs that need fixing. Our list was not very long but as part of my list I included the requirement that all workers who had to go into my house needed to be vaccinated. I have been very clear on this issue with the builder throughout the entire construction and occupation process, in that any personnel we met with either at the house or in a design office or sales office or closing office had to be vaccinated. They are aware of my wife's health issues and the risks she faces with exposure to Covid.

The builder is telling me he cannot find qualified vaccinated people to do a couple of the items on my list, one item in particular will take several days of in-house work to correct.

Do I have the right to demand workers be vaccinated who come in or can the builder deny service because he cannot find workers who are vaccinated?

 

What do you think?

it is more difficult to find vaccinated workers in some industries. My daughter works in construction in Sacramento on projects requiring vaccination. Plumbers are very difficult to find. 
 

With the Omicron variant being predominant now (97%) and with it easily evading the vaccine, testing would be more protective. The vaccinated worker could be infectious too and vax status doesn’t stop transmission. 
 

Are they repairs that can wait a month or two? Omicron should drop like a rock in the coming weeks and move out. You could wait for community spread to decrease.

We are a few weeks behind the UK and EU and things are turning around. Positive signs out of South Africa too. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

Question for those on both sides of the vaccine issue.

I just moved into a brand new house. 30 days after we moved in we got to present the builder with a punch list of repairs that need fixing. Our list was not very long but as part of my list I included the requirement that all workers who had to go into my house needed to be vaccinated. I have been very clear on this issue with the builder throughout the entire construction and occupation process, in that any personnel we met with either at the house or in a design office or sales office or closing office had to be vaccinated. They are aware of my wife's health issues and the risks she faces with exposure to Covid.

The builder is telling me he cannot find qualified vaccinated people to do a couple of the items on my list, one item in particular will take several days of in-house work to correct.

Do I have the right to demand workers be vaccinated who come in or can the builder deny service because he cannot find workers who are vaccinated?

 

What do you think?

I think the builder is just being difficult. Having said that, I think bsjkki has a point.  Vaccination is only slightly helpful at reducing transmission.  I think what would probably be more helpful at preventing transmission in the home would be to personally wear an N95 and insist that each worker that enters wears an N95 (with no vent).  Ventilate whatever room they will be working in with open windows/outside and try to isolate them in the home if possible with closed doors to other rooms.   Stay in a different room or floor if possible while they are there.  If the job can wait until after the surge, then it would be wise to wait. 

[CA Steve]

33 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

it is more difficult to find vaccinated workers in some industries. My daughter works in construction in Sacramento on projects requiring vaccination. Plumbers are very difficult to find. 
 

With the Omicron variant being predominant now (97%) and with it easily evading the vaccine, testing would be more protective. The vaccinated worker could be infectious too and vax status doesn’t stop transmission. 
 

Are they repairs that can wait a month or two? Omicron should drop like a rock in the coming weeks and move out. You could wait for community spread to decrease.

We are a few weeks behind the UK and EU and things are turning around. Positive signs out of South Africa too. 

I get that even vaccinated people can transmit the virus but the odds are greater that they will not have the disease to begin with.

The repairs can wait but even then I will still want vaccinated workers. The question is can I force the builder to send them.

[bsjkki]

14 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

I get that even vaccinated people can transmit the virus but the odds are greater that they will not have the disease to begin with.

The repairs can wait but even then I will still want vaccinated workers. The question is can I force the builder to send them.

No idea.

[Danzo]

7 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I get that even vaccinated people can transmit the virus but the odds are greater that they will not have the disease to begin with.

The repairs can wait but even then I will still want vaccinated workers. The question is can I force the builder to send them.

I don't think the odds are that much better with the vaccine.

everyone I know who has had the vaccine has had the virus last month.

I was double vaxed and I got it.

My whole family (all vaxed) got it.

Everyone at work (all vaxed) got it. 

If you are afraid of the virus, Vaccines are a false hope. Better go with social distancing.  Move out of the house while they work on it. Then wait a week for any virus to die and then come back would be the safest bet.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Danzo

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Danzo said:

I don't think the odds are that much better with the vaccine.

everyone I know who has had the vaccine has had the virus last month.

I was double vaxed and I got it.

My whole family (all vaxed) got it.

Everyone at work (all vaxed) got it. 

If you are afraid of the virus, Vaccines are a false hope. Better go with social distancing.  Move out of the house while they work on it. Then wait a week for any virus to die and then come back would be the safest bet.

Do you mask up?

[Danzo]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Do you mask up?

In church, and at the store, not at home. I am not that cruel.

However vaccinations  don't seem to prevent infection on anyone I know.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Danzo