Covid III: Delta Force

[Tacenda]

51 minutes ago, longview said:

In my post with the illustration, there is a major difference between normal breathing, sneezing, and coughing spittles.  I hope you took notice of the units and measurements.  There is a big difference spittle and normal breathing which is [infected respiratory particles (one micron)].  Whereas spittle are much larger, probably one millimeter or larger.  Sneezing are somewhere in between normal breathing and spittles.

It stands to reason that the vast majority of the virus will pass through normal breathing unimpeded by masks.  Spittle are not particles but gobs of varying sizes.  Sneezing is not as bad but has greater moisture content.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, longview said:

Especially among the nursing home population.  The elderly died in far greater numbers because they were not given appropriate protocols.  Here is a link to an exhaustive list of actual observations and studies that show the urgent need for real science to be applied - - - https://www.justfacts.com/news_face_masks_deadly_falsehoods

As an example, here are 3 important elements to understand - - -

*note that one micron is .001 of a millimeter and the diameter of Covid virus is 100 nanometers (nm is .001 micron).  Thus the respiratory particles do not even have to be coughed out but simply exhaled in normal breathing and easily shuttled out the sides of the mask or even through the mask!

Two indisputable concerns (from the link):

• masks of all types, and especially N95s, cause headaches, difficulty breathing, increased cardio-pulmonary stress during exercise, marked discomfort, and weakened social bonds.
• the average CO2 concentrations inhaled by people wearing masks are far above what many governments permit for indoor settings, and this may impair certain high-level brain functions like initiative, strategic thinking, and complex decision-making.

They actually expect people to swallow this tripe. Somehow masks can’t mitigate virus particles but do mitigate breathing. This occurs despite the fact that virus droplets are MASSIVE compared to the air. Like orders of magnitude bigger.

The idea that a cloth mask can cause CO2 poisoning is insane and I hope whatever death merchant wrote that garbage gets what they deserve.

[Snodgrassian]

37 minutes ago, longview said:

Most definitely yes.  It was founded by refugees fleeing from Communist China oppression and threats.  It has  a very large readership numbering in the tens of millions and is published worldwide.  Still growing by leaps and bounds.  I am a subscriber.

I know who owns it, and it is not surprising that they have such a vast readership, but that does not mean anything. I personally have never been impressed by their writing and find it lacking. if you track their readership, there are some very informative correlations. 

[ksfisher]

How Omicron escapes from antibodies

A computational study shows that dozens of mutations help the virus’ spike protein evade antibodies that target SARS-CoV-2

Date:

February 1, 2022

Source:

Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Summary:

Dozens of mutations in the spike protein of the Omicron variant help it to evade all four of the classes of antibodies that can target SARS-CoV-2, according to a new study. This includes antibodies generated by the immune systems of vaccinated or previously infected people, as well as most of the monoclonal antibody treatments that have been developed.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220201143956.htm

[ksfisher]

Mechanism revealed behind loss of smell with COVID-19

Date:

February 2, 2022

Source:

NYU Langone Health / NYU Grossman School of Medicine

Summary:

Researchers have discovered a mechanism that may explain why COVID-19 patients lose their sense of smell, as well as having implications for long COVID.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220202124320.htm

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Most definitely yes.  It was founded by refugees fleeing from Communist China oppression and threats.  It has  a very large readership numbering in the tens of millions and is published worldwide.  Still growing by leaps and bounds.  I am a subscriber.

These are as slimy and scummy as the government they want to replace. If there is a Chinese revolution I hope it comes from elsewhere.

[longview]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

 

That is stunning!  Even with 3 masks on, there is still visible sneezing particulates coming through.

[Tacenda]

11 minutes ago, longview said:

That is stunning!  Even with 3 masks on, there is still visible sneezing particulates coming through.

So you don't acknowledge the span the droplets were without the mask? That's quite the denial if so. What a difference a decent mask makes!

Edited February 2, 2022 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, longview said:

That is stunning!  Even with 3 masks on, there is still visible sneezing particulates coming through.

Masks only mitigate spread. They do not prevent it.

[longview]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

These are as slimy and scummy as the government they want to replace. If there is a Chinese revolution I hope it comes from elsewhere.

They were Falun Gong.  A very peaceable group.  I am surprised at your animosity against them!

[Calm]

Omicron BA.2 variant more likely to be transmitted than BA.1 among unvaccinated, but not vaccinated or by vaccinated. Hospitalization rates don’t appear to go up though.  Boosters may be even more effective against it.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.28.22270044v1
 

Quote

The Omicron SARS-CoV-2 variant of concern (VOC lineage B.1.1.529), which became dominant in many countries during early 2022, includes several subvariants with strikingly different genetic characteristics. Several countries, including Denmark, have observed the two Omicron subvariants: BA.1 and BA.2. In Denmark the latter has rapidly replaced the former as the dominant subvariant.

Based on nationwide Danish data, we estimate the transmission dynamics of BA.1 and BA.2 following the spread of Omicron VOC within Danish households in late December 2021 and early January 2022.

Among 8,541 primary household cases, of which 2,122 were BA.2, we identified a total of 5,702 secondary infections among 17,945 potential secondary cases during a 1-7 day follow-up period. The secondary attack rate (SAR) was estimated as 29% and 39% in households infected with Omicron BA.1 and BA.2, respectively.

We found BA.2 to be associated with an increased susceptibility of infection for unvaccinated individuals (Odds Ratio (OR) 2.19; 95%-CI 1.58-3.04), fully vaccinated individuals (OR 2.45; 95%-CI 1.77-3.40) and booster-vaccinated individuals (OR 2.99; 95%-CI 2.11-4.24), compared to BA.1. We also found an increased transmissibility from unvaccinated primary cases in BA.2 households when compared to BA.1 households, with an OR of 2.62 (95%-CI 1.96-3.52). The pattern of increased transmissibility in BA.2 households was not observed for fully vaccinated and booster-vaccinated primary cases, where the OR of transmission was below 1 for BA.2 compared to BA.1.

We conclude that Omicron BA.2 is inherently substantially more transmissible than BA.1, and that it also possesses immune-evasive properties that further reduce the protective effect of vaccination against infection, but do not increase its transmissibility from vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1050999/Technical-Briefing-35-28January2022.pdf

Edited February 4, 2022 by Calm

[MiserereNobis]

On 2/2/2022 at 1:50 PM, longview said:

Most definitely yes.  It was founded by refugees fleeing from Communist China oppression and threats.  It has  a very large readership numbering in the tens of millions and is published worldwide.  Still growing by leaps and bounds.  I am a subscriber.

Man, you need to do research on The Epoch Times. It is BIASED. Heavily heavily far right. QAnon. Anti-vax. Etc.

But you should know this if you are a subscriber and reading it. Or do you not recognize your own biases?

[mtomm]

So the people that say that masks are useless are these the same people that don't cover their mouth or nose when they sneeze and cough because it's useless?

Why are we teaching children to cough or sneeze into their elbow then? 

Edited February 5, 2022 by mtomm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, mtomm said:

So the people that say that masks are useless are these the same people that don't cover their mouth on nose when they sneeze and cough because it's useless?

Why are we teaching children to cough or sneeze into their elbow then? 

Priceless!

[The Nehor]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:07 PM, longview said:

They were Falun Gong.  A very peaceable group.  I am surprised at your animosity against them!

When their main publishing arm is openly endorsing European fascists I have doubts that they are looking for a free China. You can talk about freedom all you want and the evils of the current regime but if you are backing autocrats it is a fair bet that if you get power you are going to be an autocrat. They also got weirdly messianic back in 2016.

[longview]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:37 AM, MiserereNobis said:

Man, you need to do research on The Epoch Times. It is BIASED. Heavily heavily far right. QAnon. Anti-vax. Etc.

But you should know this if you are a subscriber and reading it. Or do you not recognize your own biases?

Do you deny that you have biases?  Do you believe there is only ONE spot on the spectrum that would be considered unbiased?  That your belief is centered on this very spot?  That anyone who deviates from from it is to be hounded from the discussion board?

I freely acknowledge that I have certain biases.  Even when compared with many of my fellow conservatives.  However, you really are going overboard with accusing the publication with ties to Qanon.  I have seen many references on this board about Qanon but I have never really seen any real identification of who makes up this group, their websites, formal ideological manifesto, etc.  If there are, then it must be a tiny fringe element.  I am very confident that Epoch Times is much less biased than NY Times and LA Times, etc.

[longview]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

When their main publishing arm is openly endorsing European fascists I have doubts that they are looking for a free China. You can talk about freedom all you want and the evils of the current regime but if you are backing autocrats it is a fair bet that if you get power you are going to be an autocrat. They also got weirdly messianic back in 2016.

I have NO idea of what you are jabbering about.  If you are going to make accusations, then you need to provide good documentation.

[longview]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:51 PM, mtomm said:

So the people that say that masks are useless are these the same people that don't cover their mouth or nose when they sneeze and cough because it's useless?

Why are we teaching children to cough or sneeze into their elbow then? 

I agree!  However, as I indicated in my earlier posts, the greater danger is in the normal breathing that contain millions of one micron sized particles that very easily passes through even the highest quality masks.  The sneezing mists and the heavier coughing spittles do have more substantial weight and do quickly drop to the ground.

But the one micron sized particles from normal breathing do behave like humid air and they do float intermingled into the air for much longer.  @Tacenda 's video link provides a dramatic illustration of even the fine mists of sneezing do pass through masks even with some degree of mitigation.  But there is NO mitigation of normal breath that easily passes into the air around us, with or without masks.

[MiserereNobis]

59 minutes ago, longview said:

Do you deny that you have biases?  Do you believe there is only ONE spot on the spectrum that would be considered unbiased?  That your belief is centered on this very spot?  That anyone who deviates from from it is to be hounded from the discussion board?

Of course we all have biases. But someone asked you how reliable The Epoch Times was and you answered absolutely in the affirmative. However, The Epoch Times is HEAVILY biased, and the fact that you missed that is rather incredulous.

And I never said anything about you being hounded from the board. I am focusing on The Epoch Times and your belief that they are a trustworthy news organization, especially when it comes to controversial political issues. They are not trustworthy, especially when it comes to politics. I mean, they gave more money to help Trump's election than anyone else other than the Trump campaign. Do they have the right to? Sure. Does that mean they are trustworthy to give reliable information when it comes to politics? Absolutely not.

1 hour ago, longview said:

However, you really are going overboard with accusing the publication with ties to Qanon.

Heh. Read this NBC article about The Epoch Times: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121

Or, better yet, read this Epoch Times article about Qanon: https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-q-phenomenon_2581642.html

Here's a lovely tidbit:

Quote

If the Q posts are real, they may indicate that the Trump administration has established an alternate channel to speak to supporters, bypassing news outlets and social media altogether for something more direct. The validity of the channel has not been confirmed or denied by the administration.

Q followers say that the connection of the Q posts to the Trump administration has been provided through the cross-posting of keywords with President Donald Trump’s Twitter account.

U.S. intelligence agencies are known to use official Twitter accounts to send coded messages. For example, The New York Times reported on Feb. 2 that the National Security Agency had used its official Twitter account nearly a dozen times to send coded messages to a potential source in Russia.

They offer a lovely "if/then," then point out the Q belief that Trump is using his Twitter account to verify that Q is real, and then, of their own accord, add in that the government does use twitter to send coded messages, thus giving evidence to the Q beliefs.

Keep reading the article and see how much credence they give to Qanon. Hint: it's a lot!

[longview]

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Of course we all have biases. But someone asked you how reliable The Epoch Times was and you answered absolutely in the affirmative. However, The Epoch Times is HEAVILY biased, and the fact that you missed that is rather incredulous.

Why are you using extreme descriptors?  I do not necessarily trust the staff of Epoch Times "absolutely" but I am very appreciative of having this publication.  This is a wonderful breath of fresh air as compared to the Denver Post which I stopped subscribing to two decades ago for obvious editorializing in news articles.  For you to say "HEAVILY biased" is simply your opinion.

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Does that mean they are trustworthy to give reliable information when it comes to politics? Absolutely not.

You need to take some Zanak (or something).  Lets tone down the hysteria.

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Read this NBC article about The Epoch Times: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121

I read your 3 links.  Your allies are trying really hard to paint a lurid picture of this group.  But there is NO "there there" or anything of real substance.  All references to Qanon are very vague and lacking in documentation.  I stand with my original statement concerning Qanon that I think they are a tiny fringe group if anything.

5 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

They offer a lovely "if/then," then point out the Q belief that Trump is using his Twitter account to verify that Q is real, and then, of their own accord, add in that the government does use twitter to send coded messages, thus giving evidence to the Q beliefs.

Send coded messages?  WHOOO ! ! ! Sounds like a ominous conspiracy.  Your heart must be beating as fast as a hummingbird.

My purpose is to focus on real science by asking board members to seriously consider whether normal breathing actually will propagate one micron sized particulates containing 100 nanometer sized Covid virus.  I am asking if there is a real danger of unimpeded transmission of the virus in spite of the mask.  I am trying really hard to avoid politicizing this thread.  I simply want to have a straightforward discussion on how Covid is being spread.  Instead of dealing with the science questions, people are attempting to derail by demonizing The Epoch Times (which I do not see justification for).

[Calm]

6 hours ago, longview said:

Lets tone down the hysteria.

You are the one suggesting medical intervention with Xanax, overdramatizing much?

Quote

Your heart must be beating as fast as a hummingbird.

And making it personal

Quote

simply want to have a straightforward discussion on how Covid is being spread. 

Then stop acting like other posters are emotional basket cases because that is not the least straightforward.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Calm

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, longview said:

I have NO idea of what you are jabbering about.  If you are going to make accusations, then you need to provide good documentation.

I think you do know what I am jabbering about.

I don’t have to do anything. That the Epoch Times has regularly endorsed alt-right candidates is not a contentious issue including authoritarian leaders in Eastern Europe and backed authoritarian candidates in the rest of Europe. If you go to the places on the internet where the openly pro-Nazis hang out you quickly discover that they love the Epoch Times.

As John Oliver once said:

"Nazis are a lot like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them"

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, longview said:

You need to take some Zanak (or something).  Lets tone down the hysteria.

I read your 3 links.  Your allies are trying really hard to paint a lurid picture of this group.  But there is NO "there there" or anything of real substance.  All references to Qanon are very vague and lacking in documentation.  I stand with my original statement concerning Qanon that I think they are a tiny fringe group if anything.

Send coded messages?  WHOOO ! ! ! Sounds like a ominous conspiracy.  Your heart must be beating as fast as a hummingbird.

[longview]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

Quote

simply want to have a straightforward discussion on how Covid is being spread. 

Then stop acting like other posters are emotional basket cases because that is not the least straightforward.

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think you do know what I am jabbering about.

It is strange that not one person has responded to the question of whether Covid is spread through normal breathing of humid air.  That the breath contains microscopic droplets of water.  That the droplets are mostly one micron or smaller.  That Covid is easily transported in those droplets.  That Covid virus is 100 nanometers in size and safely embedded within the droplets.  That the sieve within the finest mask are NOT smaller than 17 microns.

According to Google:  The air we breathe in is 21% O2 and 79% N2, (neglecting humidity). ... In fact, exhaled air is completely saturated with water – it contains the maximum amount of moisture, and is therefore has a relative humidity of 100%.

The smallest size of a cell that can be seen with the unaided eye is or the differentiation capacity of the human eye is 100 microns. (see https://www.toppr.com/ask/question/the-smallest-size-of-a-cell-which-can-be-seen-with-unaided-eye-is-or/)

These are compelling reasons for us to reconsider the policies for the mask mandate.  People keep saying "follow the science" !  Well, let us find better alternatives to wearing masks.

[Tacenda]

24 minutes ago, longview said:

It is strange that not one person has responded to the question of whether Covid is spread through normal breathing of humid air.  That the breath contains microscopic droplets of water.  That the droplets are mostly one micron or smaller.  That Covid is easily transported in those droplets.  That Covid virus is 100 nanometers in size and safely embedded within the droplets.  That the sieve within the finest mask are NOT smaller than 17 microns.

According to Google:  The air we breathe in is 21% O2 and 79% N2, (neglecting humidity). ... In fact, exhaled air is completely saturated with water – it contains the maximum amount of moisture, and is therefore has a relative humidity of 100%.

The smallest size of a cell that can be seen with the unaided eye is or the differentiation capacity of the human eye is 100 microns. (see https://www.toppr.com/ask/question/the-smallest-size-of-a-cell-which-can-be-seen-with-unaided-eye-is-or/)

These are compelling reasons for us to reconsider the policies for the mask mandate.  People keep saying "follow the science" !  Well, let us find better alternatives to wearing masks.

This is plain silly. Why not do all we can to avoid the teeny tiny droplets from getting up in the air and wafting in others faces?? My video that you mention often, shows how the mask stops the teeny microscopic droplets to not get up and away. And your link doesn't work. What is your motive to stop mask wearing, since they do indeed help and prevent the spread of covid. Is it your freedom you're worried about or others freedom? 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Tacenda