Covid III: Delta Force

[blarsen]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You are asking why public health agencies would tell people to seek real medical care instead of relying on potentially harmful placebos?

You've certainly got your mind made up, eh? 

Once again, McCullough has determined that there exist ~250 papers displaying studies that indicate the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment/amelioration of COVID-19, or the the illness caused by the earlier version of the SARS-CoV virus.  He also says that there are over 60 papers doing the same for ivermectin, with about 30 of these using random trials. 

I'm aware of your previous response to this information, but am not too impressed.   In my view, McCullough is one of the most impressive presenters I've ever encountered; very articulate and able to marshal names, dates, titles, locations, etc., etc., effortlessly without notes.  It's no wonder that he was on the editorial board or the chief editor of 3 or more prestigious medical journals.

I have a neighbor, a PhD epidemiologist (also married to PhD in a biological science), who actually participated, along with members of his family, in the Pfizer mRNA 'vaccine' test trials, who was very knowledgeable and impressed w/McCullough's past achievements.  I updated him on what McCullough was doing with the COVID narrative, but never got a reply.

If you actually listened to the man with an open mind, you would find the allegation that he is a liar, ludicrous to the extreme.

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Of course you won't do this, if you haven't given a serious open minded study of this issue and come to the conclusion these therapies are extremely valuable for COVID-19.

 

I have seen the effect of the vaccine likely lowering the serious reactions in the vulnerable members of my family.  I have seen the value of the vaccines for myself. 

[blarsen]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Of course it is all garbage. Funny that you neglected to mention that it is a pre-print study and has not gone through peer-review. I doubt it will survive the process. I am not even sure they will try.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-preprint-looking-at-the-impact-of-lockdowns-as-posted-on-the-john-hopkins-krieger-school-of-arts-and-sciences-website/

A lockdown in the study is defined as any form of government restriction. By that weird standard most nations in the world have been in perpetual lockdown since the pandemic started.

Are you angry at whoever pointed this study out that they lied to you? Or just annoyed that your propaganda is propaganda and are going to run to the same sources to get more?

I'll leave the anger to you.

Your article certainly seemed to step on the toes of the modeling group from the Imperial College of London, particularly Neils Ferguson, who one could consider Mr. Lockdown due to his exaggerated covid mortality rate models.  His apparent prediction that lockdowns would reduce mortality by 98% certainly is in contrast to the Herby paper prediction of 2.9% for SIPO lockdowns.  Seems to be a very controversial topic.

Regarding lockdowns, even the exaggerated mortality rates from COVID-19, don't justify the "enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted".  These consequences faaaar outway the devastation attributed to COVID itself, in my strongly held view.   And in so far as they result in 'Vaccine Passports', etc., even more so.

Just look at the Trucker protests in Canada and the draconian measures Trudeau is taking to combat them?  Doesn't this kind of governmental intrusion and tyranny worry any of you folks, even a little bit??

If not, I'm astonished.

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by blarsen

[blarsen]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I have seen the effect of the vaccine likely lowering the serious reactions in the vulnerable members of my family.  I have seen the value of the vaccines for myself. 

McCullough, himself, recognizes that the vaccine has some ameliorative effect in certain cases.  But both he and many, many, many others are direct witnesses to very horrible and adverse effects from them . . . in certain cases.  And there are statistical studies of the VAERS database indicating the bad effects are limited to certain lots of the vaccines.

And I am  direct witness to the almost immediate ameliorative/good effects from the use of alternative therapies for several people in my immediate and extended family and my circle of friends.  We are fortunate (in a way) because my wife has been taking Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) for almost 30 years for a condition she has, so we have a good supply, and have dispensed it to those we know need it.  The effect is nothing like the placebo effect Nehor would like to limit it to.  Based on her experience with this drug and being an RN, enabled her to immediately detect the lies Fauci was indulging in about it.  This is one of the reasons we started getting really interested in such things.

Additionally, I'm directly aware of some of the horrible and bad effects of the 'vaccines' from my wife's immediate family and people close to friends of mine, to include our dentist.

Finally, a week ago, a close friend told me what a friend of his who runs a well-known Funeral Home told him about the skyrocketing monthly body count they are dealing with and the strange, very long and never before seen blood clots they are encountering during embalming.  He also said that all the Funeral Homes he is aware of are experiencing the same thing.  His counts  went from a normal monthly high of an occasional 100, up to 120, this past month, with the increase being steady over the past few months.  The same thing is being reported in many Funeral Parlors in several countries.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody.  This is simply testimonial from my experience and knowledge of certain data/information.

[JustAnAustralian]

3 hours ago, blarsen said:

And of course, there is the VAERS data base supporting this idea.

These databases are fine for picking up emerging trends, but as the data is explicitly not verified, not suitable for rigorous academic analysis*. Unless of course you think that getting a covid19 vaccination really does cause animal bites.

 

*Unless the analysis explicitly states the data is unverified

Edited February 22, 2022 by JustAnAustralian

[Bob Crockett]

46 minutes ago, blarsen said:

McCullough, himself, recognizes that the vaccine has some ameliorative effect in certain cases.  But both he and many, many, many others are direct witnesses to very horrible and adverse effects from them . . . in certain cases.  And there are statistical studies of the VAERS database indicating the bad effects are limited to certain lots of the vaccines.

And I am  direct witness to the almost immediate ameliorative/good effects from the use of alternative therapies for several people in my immediate and extended family and my circle of friends.  We are fortunate (in a way) because my wife has been taking Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) for almost 30 years for a condition she has, so we have a good supply, and have dispensed it to those we know need it.  The effect is nothing like the placebo effect Nehor would like to limit it to.  Based on her experience with this drug and being an RN, enabled her to immediately detect the lies Fauci was indulging in about it.  This is one of the reasons we started getting really interested in such things.

Additionally, I'm directly aware of some of the horrible and bad effects of the 'vaccines' from my wife's immediate family and people close to friends of mine, to include our dentist.

Finally, a week ago, a close friend told me what a friend of his who runs a well-known Funeral Home told him about the skyrocketing monthly body count they are dealing with and the strange, very long and never before seen blood clots they are encountering during embalming.  He also said that all the Funeral Homes he is aware of are experiencing the same thing.  His counts  went from a normal monthly high of an occasional 100, up to 120, this past month, with the increase being steady over the past few months.  The same thing is being reported in many Funeral Parlors in several countries.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody.  This is simply testimonial from my experience and knowledge of certain data/information.

This is craziness.  There is nothing prohibiting a doctor from using these therapies.  And anecdotes are not evidence.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, blarsen said:

seen blood clots they are encountering during embalming…His counts  went from a normal monthly high of an occasional 100, up to 120, this past month, with the increase being steady over the past few months.

And why think this a result of vaccine rather than Covid itself given its variations, Omnicron being so much more contagious, and effects?

https://health.osu.edu/health/virus-and-infection/blood-clots-covid

Edited February 22, 2022 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

Just published this week:

Steven Chee Loon Lim et al., 'Efficacy of Ivermectin Treatment on Disease Progression Among Adults With Mild to Moderate COVID-19 and Comorbidities: the I-TECH Randomized Clinical Trial', JAMA Internal Medicine, 18 Feb. 2022:

Quote

Importance  Ivermectin, an inexpensive and widely available antiparasitic drug, is prescribed to treat COVID-19. Evidence-based data to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin are needed.

Objective  To determine the efficacy of ivermectin in preventing progression to severe disease among high-risk patients with COVID-19...

Interventions  Patients were randomized in a 1:1 ratio to receive either oral ivermectin, 0.4 mg/kg body weight daily for 5 days, plus standard of care (n = 241) or standard of care alone (n = 249). The standard of care consisted of symptomatic therapy and monitoring for signs of early deterioration based on clinical findings, laboratory test results, and chest imaging.

Main Outcomes and Measures  The primary outcome was the proportion of patients who progressed to severe disease, defined as the hypoxic stage requiring supplemental oxygen to maintain pulse oximetry oxygen saturation of 95% or higher. Secondary outcomes of the trial included the rates of mechanical ventilation, intensive care unit admission, 28-day in-hospital mortality, and adverse events...

Conclusions and Relevance  In this randomized clinical trial of high-risk patients with mild to moderate COVID-19, ivermectin treatment during early illness did not prevent progression to severe disease. The study findings do not support the use of ivermectin for patients with COVID-19.

 

[blarsen]

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

These databases are fine for picking up emerging trends, but as the data is explicitly not verified, not suitable for rigorous academic analysis*. Unless of course you think that getting a covid19 vaccination really does cause animal bites.

 

*Unless the analysis explicitly states the data is unverified

VAERS is essentially a passive system.  McCullough claims that about 85% of the reports are filled out by physicians.   The rest of the reports are filled out by the ones suffering from the 'adverse events' or those close to them; but these are encouraged to fill in information about their attending physicians, etc., who oversaw the shots and could verify the bad reaction.  Being a passive system, the reports filed, probably cover something like 1 out of 5 events that actually occurred, with estimates as low as  1 out 10 or more.

Hard to imagine that a significant number of these reports would be falsely filed.

And yes, VAERS was meant to be an early warning system tracking adverse events for a given vaccine, which would and should encourage further investigation.  Unfortunately, follow up has been sadly neglected in the case of the mRNA shots.  Funding should be allocated for both verification and medical investigations into the claims, to include autopsies.

Your "animal bites" comment comes across as rather snide . . . . don't you think?

[JustAnAustralian]

8 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Hard to imagine that a significant number of these reports would be falsely filed.

There's a difference between intentionally filed false reports, and unknowingly filed incorrect reports. If people think something might be an averse reaction, it can be filed regardless of whether it is or not.

Hence the reports of "pregnancy", "pregnancy with advanced maternal age", "unintended pregnancy", etc (i.e. the vaccines made them pregnant), and yes, various forms of animal bites.

 

8 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Your "animal bites" comment comes across as rather snide . . . . don't you think?

Not when there ARE multiple reports of animal bites (of different kinds including a snake) in VAERS as adverse reactions to covid19 vaccines.

Edited February 22, 2022 by JustAnAustralian

[blarsen]

55 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

This is craziness.  There is nothing prohibiting a doctor from using these therapies.  And anecdotes are not evidence.  

Actually, hospital protocols have been interpreted to strongly imply that key elements of these therapies should be denied.  And they are, almost across the board.   You apparently haven't heard, read or listened to the myriad testimonies of this reality.  Perhaps, now, hospitals are loosening up.  I hope so. 

As a simple test, go to your primary care physician and ask him/her for a prescription for hydroxchloroquine and/or ivermectin and why you want it, to see what he/she says.   The next test would be to see if your local pharmacy will even issue it if the doctor does  prescribe it.  There are many reports of pharmacies unwilling to fill these prescriptions. 

And you have to be more specific about what you regard as anecdotal, and therefore, non-evidence.  For my friend hearing about the cadaver count from the owner of a well-known local Funeral Home, this information is a first-hand account of his friends direct experience.  For me, its 2nd hand.   Now, yes, you could call it anecdotal evidence unless my friend went down to the morgue and did the count with its director friend.  It then becomes direct evidence to my friend.  Same with you.   But for both of us, because of the trust we have with one another, the current information is good evidence, even though anecdotal.

[Hamba Tuhan]

22 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Hard to imagine that a significant number of these reports would be falsely filed.

Quoting myself from 7 October last year:

Quote

Out of curiosity, I just went to this VAERS website and filled in the form to report an adverse event, using completely fabricated details. I let them know that a person in my family died after a Covid vaccine. Literally none of the data was checked, including addresses, clinic name, etc., except for the age of the person being cross-checked against the birthdate I had entered. I intentionally tested all of these. For example, I said that the person lived in a city in Washington that doesn't exist in that state, and then I gave a postcode for Utah and a telephone area code for another state altogether. I made up the name of the clinic that gave the vaccine and its address. The only problem detected was when the age (52) didn't match the birthyear (2000).

I got to the last page of the online form and had the option to submit, which I didn't do.

There is a disclaimer at the bottom of each page, 'Warning: Knowingly filing a false VAERS report with the intent to mislead the Department of Health and Human Services is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment', but I have no legal reason to be deterred by that since I'm not subject to American law.

Very interesting. I could have just upped the number of reported post-vaccine deaths in the US if I'd wanted to. For multiple reasons, of course, I don't want to, but I'm certain there are people who do and have, including both people who hate vaccines and people who hate America.

Our local system is very different. First, it's not publicly accessible. Following each dose of the vaccine, I was sent a text with a link to an online government form. The form was uniquely linked to me. Each person is asked to fill in this form after each dose. Out of curiosity, I attempted to use the link to fill in the form a second time. No go; I was told that I had already completed that report.

And since I'm there, here are our current outcomes:

• Reports of death following Covid vaccination have been made for 0.002 per cent of all doses given. These have all been investigated.
• Only 1.6 per cent of these reported deaths were found to have been caused by the vaccine (AstraZeneca in each case).

Quoting myself from 2 January this year:

Quote

By the way, I just checked our latest figures. We've had 2.3 vaccine-caused deaths for every 10 million doses given. In stark contrast, Covid so far has caused 27,370 deaths for every 10 million Americans.

 

[blarsen]

19 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

There's a difference between intentionally filed false reports, and unknowingly filed incorrect reports. If people think something might be an averse reaction, it can be filed regardless of whether it is or not.

Hence the reports of "pregnancy", "pregnancy with advanced maternal age", "unintended pregnancy", etc (i.e. the vaccines made them pregnant), and yes, various forms of animal bites.

 

Not when there ARE multiple reports of animal bites (of different kinds including a snake) in VAERS as adverse reactions to covid19 vaccines.

Can you quantify this assertion?  I've read similar claims and even looked into a couple, but they amount to a very small percentage of the whole.  I've got a copy of the VAERS report forms and instructions, and they really aren't conducive to this kind of idiocy.

[blarsen]

8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Quoting myself from 7 October last year:

Quoting myself from 2 January this year:

 

Well, it sounds like your country is on the right track regarding AE reporting.  What country is that by the way?

[Rivers]

Covid is over.  It has fully transitioned from pandemic to endemic.  It’s time to close this thread and prohibit future Covid threads.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Well, it sounds like your country is on the right track regarding AE reporting.

Yeah, I find it interesting to see how often Americans debate within the confines of their own chaos instead of seeing what more regulated data in other places might look like.

[blarsen]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And why think this a result of vaccine rather than Covid itself given its variations, Omnicron being so much more contagious, and effects?

https://health.osu.edu/health/virus-and-infection/blood-clots-covid

The increases only really kicked in after the shots were initiated in early 2021 from all I've read on the subject.  Also the nature of death including symptoms play into this assumption on the part of the undertakers.  I've seen and read many testimonies of adverse events happening very shortly after the shots, many of them tragic and heartbreaking.  Two of these, as I've mentioned, were in my wife's family.

By all accounts from the people I regard as experts on the subject, the main culprit is the artificially created spike protein.  Allowing the body to create an artificial antigen via an injected mRNA sequence, seems like insanity to me, especially without rigorous long-term testing.

But you folks here are welcome to your views of the matter.   I just thought it might be beneficial to some of the readers on this board to hear an opposing view.

 

[blarsen]

6 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yeah, I find it interesting to see how often Americans debate within the confines of their own chaos instead of seeing what more regulated data in other places might look like.

And what might be your own particular "other place", which we might all emulate?

[blarsen]

13 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Covid is over.  It has fully transitioned from pandemic to endemic.  It’s time to close this thread and prohibit future Covid threads.  

I tend to agree with this, except, part-libertarian that I am, I don't much like 'mandates' regarding communication and threads, or against much else that doesn't involve direct harm or threat to others, or violation of a boards guidelines and rules.

 

[JustAnAustralian]

35 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Can you quantify this assertion?  I've read similar claims and even looked into a couple, but they amount to a very small percentage of the whole.  I've got a copy of the VAERS report forms and instructions, and they really aren't conducive to this kind of idiocy.

Well sure. I mean you could have done it yourself since VAERS is searchable but here's a selection.

Symptoms	Events Reported	Percent (of 434)
ANIMAL BITE	17	3.92%
ARTHROPOD BITE	130	29.95%
BITE	32	7.37%
INFECTED BITE	6	1.38%
MULTIPLE PREGNANCY	2	0.46%
PREGNANCY	244	56.22%
PREGNANCY WITH ADVANCED MATERNAL AGE	3	0.69%
SNAKE BITE	1	0.23%
UNINTENDED PREGNANCY	1	0.23%
Total	436	100.46%

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, blarsen said:

You've certainly got your mind made up, eh? 

Once again, McCullough has determined that there exist ~250 papers displaying studies that indicate the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment/amelioration of COVID-19, or the the illness caused by the earlier version of the SARS-CoV virus.  He also says that there are over 60 papers doing the same for ivermectin, with about 30 of these using random trials. 

I'm aware of your previous response to this information, but am not too impressed.   In my view, McCullough is one of the most impressive presenters I've ever encountered; very articulate and able to marshal names, dates, titles, locations, etc., etc., effortlessly without notes.  It's no wonder that he was on the editorial board or the chief editor of 3 or more prestigious medical journals.

I have a neighbor, a PhD epidemiologist (also married to PhD in a biological science), who actually participated, along with members of his family, in the Pfizer mRNA 'vaccine' test trials, who was very knowledgeable and impressed w/McCullough's past achievements.  I updated him on what McCullough was doing with the COVID narrative, but never got a reply.

If you actually listened to the man with an open mind, you would find the allegation that he is a liar, ludicrous to the extreme.

So you are not going to defend the last paper and instead pivot to an already rebutted attack you have used what? Twice now?

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

40 minutes ago, blarsen said:

And what might be your own particular "other place", which we might all emulate?

Pretty much anywhere else. If Covid vaccines are causing waves of death and disability in America, as you appear to be asserting, then they should also be causing similar waves of death and disability everywhere else. Our robust vaccine monitoring system here shows no such thing. I'm not aware of any other nation that has such data. Are you?

[JustAnAustralian]

And since I'm in VAERS...

Symptoms	Events Reported	Percent (of 434)
CAT SCRATCH DISEASE	1	0.23%
CLOSTRIDIUM DIFFICILE INFECTION	52	11.98%
GENITAL HERPES	124	28.57%
HEPATITIS B	13	3.00%
HEPATITIS C	18	4.15%
HIV INFECTION	10	2.30%
HOOKWORM INFECTION	2	0.46%
LYME DISEASE	148	34.10%
MALARIA	2	0.46%
MEASLES	22	5.07%
ROTAVIRUS INFECTION	1	0.23%
SALMONELLOSIS	5	1.15%
SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE	9	2.07%
SYPHILIS	11	2.53%
TOXOPLASMOSIS	5	1.15%
TUBERCULOSIS	16	3.69%
WEST NILE VIRAL INFECTION	1	0.23%
ZIKA VIRUS INFECTION	1	0.23%
Total	441	101.61%

And also since I'm there

Symptoms	Vaccine	Events Reported	Percent (of 38,206)
COVID-19	COVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203)	3,588	9.39%
	COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201)	16,640	43.55%
	COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200)	27,584	72.20%
	COVID19 (COVID19 (UNKNOWN)) (1202)	111	0.29%
	Total	47,923	125.43%
Total		47,923	125.43%

 

Apparently vaccines not containing sars-cov-2, gave people covid19.

 

 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, blarsen said:

I'll leave the anger to you.

Your article certainly seemed to step on the toes of the modeling group from the Imperial College of London, particularly Neils Ferguson, who one could consider Mr. Lockdown due to his exaggerated covid mortality rate models.  His apparent prediction that lockdowns would reduce mortality by 98% certainly is in contrast to the Herby paper prediction of 2.9% for SIPO lockdowns.  Seems to be a very controversial topic.

Regarding lockdowns, even the exaggerated mortality rates from COVID-19, don't justify the "enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted".  These consequences faaaar outway the devastation attributed to COVID itself, in my strongly held view.   And in so far as they result in 'Vaccine Passports', etc., even more so.

Just look at the Trucker protests in Canada and the draconian measures Trudeau is taking to combat them?  Doesn't this kind of governmental intrusion and tyranny worry any of you folks, even a little bit??

If not, I'm astonished.

 

I don’t care about your “strongly held view”. You value economic prosperity over human life but mass death means we got neither. The “vaccine passport” hysteria is stupid.

The Canadian trucker movement’s literal goal from there funding site was to force the nation’s leadership to dissolve the recently democratically elected parliament. The word for that is “treason”.

I encourage you to look into the funding of the Canadian trucker movement. This working class protest somehow had an average donation value near $1000. Their funding is unprecedented in Canada. Looking into it most of the funding came from the US and overseas in large values. The actual turnout to the protest was small compared to their self-reported numbers and for a trucker protest there weren’t that many truckers. Plus truckers have a high vaccination rate. Despite the protest there were almost no supply disruptions so where did all the trucks delivering supplies come from? Also take a look at all the photos of the trucks involved. Most don’t look like working trucks. They are way too new and have little wear and tear and many are identical models. Almost as if someone just bought a bunch of them.

How would you react if you were the leader of Canada and you find out that a movement that is purportedly grassroots is funded by citizens of foreign governments and their stated goal is to overthrow the government. Despite that the Ottawa protest in particular was treated with kid gloves for weeks. Finally the police and residents had had enough of an illegal campout blockading a large portion of the city waging psychological warfare (trucks honking all day and night is basically torture) and terrorizing the citizens. Finally enough was enough and those that didn’t leave were arrested. It took them weeks to break out the riot gear and the tear gas while the protesters were building a fuel dump right outside Parliament. It was also a severe fire hazard to other surrounding buildings. Then when the police moved in the protesters tried to form a shield of CHILDREN to keep the police from moving in. Yeah, real heroes copying the heroic actions of rogue states and terrorist organizations in using human shields. At least most terrorists have the decency not to use their own children as the shields.

It was an idiotic protest with incredibly vague demands. It did not win hearts and minds. It did not bring converts to the cause.

Other Canadian cities did a much better job of shaming and driving off the protesters.

Now we are seeing a similar trucker protest movement in the US protesting non-existent lockdowns. Since they were on guard there was a lot more tracking done on how these were formed. Social media accounts built up (mostly overseas) by posting standard right-wing talking points and run primarily by bots are purchased on the darknet. These accounts are repurposed for the movement and since they come pre-built with followers it creates the illusion of a large degree of support.

I worry about what is going to happen in DC if the convoys get there. The blockade tactics used in Canada to shut down whole blocks won’t be tolerated and the police are unlikely to be polite to this group of protesters after what happened last time. For good or ill the American police all along their route are quasi-militarized and much more aggressive than the Canadian police. This doesn’t end well.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Rivers said:

Covid is over.  It has fully transitioned from pandemic to endemic.  It’s time to close this thread and prohibit future Covid threads.  

May want to look up endemic again. Endemic is where you get (usually seasonal) outbreaks of a disease. Most likely it will be two to four years more before it becomes endemic due to everyone getting it and hospitalizations and deaths will become a significant but predictable and mostly part of the medical landscape. We are still dealing with the biggest wave of infections yet. It is not endemic.