Solution to youth leaving the church

[JustAnAustralian]

3 hours ago, mgy401 said:

Bill Gates set up his foundation to further progressive causes; and I think we can agree that he’d be well within his rights to try to prevent a scenario where one of his kids might get on the foundation board of directors and then wanted to donate a kadjillion dollars to—say—Donald Trump’s next presidential campaign.

 

Bill Gates in an interesting comparison. He was very vocally against his kids getting his money. More recently he said they'd get 10million. A tiny fraction of his wealth, even after his giving pledge of giving at least half to philanthropic causes. Of course, now there's a divorce involved, we'll see what Melinda Gates does inheritance wise.

[smac97]

22 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Bribe them. Inheritance of wealth is contingent upon the kids proving temple worthiness at the time of inheritance. If they can’t then the church wants you to give the money to the church instead. 

see video at about 10:30

https://archive.org/details/watchvpxa6nt-ydqc

kinda messed up if you ask me. Of course my parents promised me a car and to pay for college if I went on a mission so perhaps it’s a Mormon cultural thing. 

We talked about this video back in March, when Tacenda linked to it from Zelph on the Shelf:

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Do you remember the video put out by the philanthropy dept of the church. In the video the parents mention that their children's inheritance depends on them staying faithful in the church, and if they aren't, the money will go to the church? https://zelphontheshelf.com/lds-philanthropies-if-your-kids-arent-mormon-give-your-money-to-the-church-when-you-die/

Oi.  You mean the website that attributes the following quote to LDS Philanthropies?

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LDS Philanthropies: "If your kids aren't Mormon, give your money to the church when you die"

If your kids decide to leave the church, you better change your will so the church gets all your money instead of them. That’s the message of a new video put out by LDS Philanthropies. (Edit: The video has now been removed after it received significant negative attention. Here’s another link to the video someone backed up.)

You'll understand if I'm not quite willing to take these folks' characterization at face value. 

Yeah, ZOTS doesn't really play it straight.

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It's available for viewing here (apparently a copyright violation, but oh well...).  I watched it.  It's a video of a married couple explaining their life journey.  They talked about one of their daughters and choices she had made.  The choices are kept pretty vague and are not explained.  They talk about the value of helping/serving others, and about the importance of teaching this to your children.  They talk about how humanitarian work begins at home and does not necessarily require a lot of money.  They talked about service projects they did, and re-enacts some of them.  The dad says that he can give his children money, cars, etc., but he can't given them a desire to be good and virtuous.  He then says that if his children want to inherit part of his estate, they need to be good people.  The dad says his metric of success as a father is if his children are worthy of a temple recommend, and not whether they are wealthy.  The parents then talk about the risks inherent in inheriting or coming into large sums of money quickly, how such a thing can be quite damaging (anyone who has watched what happens to lottery winners will agree with this sentiment).  The parents then talk about what happens when someone "who is not living gospel principles" receives a "pile of money."  The father notes that this seldom involves the person returning to Church and turning their life around.  The father talks about how he was nervous about what would happen if he died and left a lot of money to his children.  He spoke with someone at LDS Philanthropies, who suggested that their family start up a charitable foundation.  The arrangement was that his sons would be involved in the foundation.  They later changed the terms so that they could "grow and develop" and build up "good principles," and "if they were worthy of their priesthood, they can handle the inheritance and continue to do good, and if they exercise their agency contrary to my {the father's} beliefs, then the option is that the entire inheritance can still go to the Church."  The mother then adds that she wants her children to be good and kind to others.  The father then talks more about their charitable foundation.  

So, yeah.  The video is not quite what ZelphOnTheShelp says it is (as in nothing like it).  

And yet here we are, with a third go-around trying to gin up resentment against the Church for a video that was taken down years ago.  First ZOTS, then Tacenda, now you.

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I'm struggling to see what's wrong with the video. 

A religious couple can be legitimately concerned about an inheritance of large amounts of money having a corrupting influence on the lives of their children.  The Prodigal Son's "riotous living" comes to mind.

A religious couple can likewise feel justified in wanting the fruits of their lifelong labors to benefit their children and the world, such as by setting up a charitable foundation.

A religious couple (or any couple, for that matter) can arrange their estate planning so as to minimize risks and maximize benefits, both financial and otherwise.  

There are all sorts of people who live large portions of their estate to what they see as worthwhile causes.  Churches.  Charities.  Schools.  

There are all sorts of people who condition inheritances on the heirs' conduct.  A drug addict, for example, might receive only limited monetary distributions.  Or an 18-year old might lost the inheritance unless he graduates from college, or else he might only be able to use the inheritance for tuition, or he might receive distributions in metered amounts over a period of years.  Or the inheritance might be put in a trust fund.  There are a million ways to do this, all legal, all above board, all legitimate.  So to fault Latter-day Saints for doing it is, well, weird.

Then there are the people who also have pretty bizarre bequests in their estate planning.  Meet Lulu, the 8-year-old border collie that just inherited $5 million dollars:

Has Zelph on the Shelf railed against Bill Dorris, the fellow who left his millions to this dog? 

Anyhoo, if LDS Philanthropies created a video that, for some, hit an off-key note, that's unfortunate.  But for the love of pete.  The video came out in 2013, was apparently criticized, and was then taken down.  How many people watched it?  Don't know.  Doesn't matter.  It only has value and relevance because you want to make the Church look bad.

Do you see how bringing this up rather exemplifies the point I have made over and over?  That critics are not really looking to find information, but to find fault?  

And here you are, proving my point again.

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Several years after they donated to the church, my FIL's business went bankrupt (his very LDS partner being the culprit, there were two families that owned the business) and the brothers lost out, and they kind of harbor bad feelings about it, one brother in law even wrote to the LDS business partner and told him that he should worry about it when meeting his maker, this BIL is in a bishopric as a second or first counselor and very faithful, all of my in-laws are. And my husband wishes that instead of going to the very wealthy church that the money could have went to grand or great grandchildren that may need it for medical needs, schooling or ? You can't go to the church and ask for funds for medical needs, or schooling can you? Maybe you can..haha.

I understand your husband's point.  But you are corroborating the point made in the LDS Philanthropies video.  Money, particularly when A) is acquired quickly, B) is inherited rather than earned, and C) is in large quantities, can have a very corrupting and damaging effect on the recipients.

In the end, the disposition of one's estate is generally the sole province of the individual.  

Except, of course, for affluent Latter-day Saints, who are to be vilified if they place any conditions on inherited wealth.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

19 hours ago, Rain said:

Having a brother who was an addict and an alcoholic before he died last year and seeing what my parents went through as they decided what to do with the money they left behind I don't have any problem with the idea that if your kids don't live up to your beliefs then the money may go to the church.

I had a client with this problem, except that the money was not hers.  Her adult son had had a pretty successful career, but he regressed into a life of drug-addled homelessness.  He lost his family, lost his job, and eventually lost his (pretty expensive) house.  There was quite a bit of money left over from the foreclosure.  His mother hired me to ask the court to appoint a conservator on her son's behalf, as she was afraid that him getting a considerable amount of money would end in his death.  That's not hyperbole.  Not only was the guy totally in the thrall of severe chemical addiction, he had fallen in with a criminal element and had bragged to them that he was about to get a big sum of money.  His mother was concerned, with some real justification, that they would manipulate or coerce him into turning the money over to them, then get rid of him.

She had already mostly cut him off in terms of financial support from her, since most of what she sent him was gone in a day or two (drugs pumped into his veins, snorted into his nose, chugged down his throat).

A person who is not prepared for the the sudden infusion of substantial unearned wealth can experience tremendous problems.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Bill Gates in an interesting comparison. He was very vocally against his kids getting his money. More recently he said they'd get 10million. A tiny fraction of his wealth, even after his giving pledge of giving at least half to philanthropic causes. Of course, now there's a divorce involved, we'll see what Melinda Gates does inheritance wise.

Marie Osmond is on that wavelength as well: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/entertainment/marie-osmond-fortune-children/index.html  

[poptart]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I had to quit watching, my mom got early onset Alzheimer's and showed signs at 62. My dad cared for her at home but for the last 10 years of her life she was in a care center. And we've no idea if my mom was abused like this man was, but I often wondered if she was treated right. I wish now we would have just had her stay with one of her children, and we could have each taken turns. But then she'd escape and we worried for her safety. She didn't know my dad at one point and would ask where Jerry was, and get really upset with my dad. She even thought my sister was my dad's girlfriend and got upset. So it felt like our only option at the time. But seeing youtubes of elderly abuse makes me sick to my stomach. My mom was in four different ones, the good ones at that time were hard to find. 

 

Sorry to hear, Alzheimer's is almost always miserable for everyone involved.  All I know is I'd never put a loved one in a facility, my experience has been in general they are bad.  Thing is, a lot of them do get sued, they scare off the good nursing staff and when the state does (if ever) bring the hammer down all they do is fold and restart under a new name/managment, staff included.

Elderly Alzheimer's patient beaten at Arvada assisted living community; caregiver facing arrest (thedenverchannel.com)

Clear View Behavioral Health sold to new mental-health group – Loveland Reporter-Herald (reporterherald.com)

So much wrong with the USA.

[Bernard Gui]

22 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

All I know is if they don’t no money for them and they know it too. 
 

if you don’t believe there is a difference between actual faithfulness and faking it for money then can’t help you. 

Looks like I am beyond redemption.

How do you know they are faking it for the money?

Who has the right to tell them what to do with their life’s labor? Or judge them?

Edited May 23, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[katherine the great]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Marie Osmond is on that wavelength as well: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/entertainment/marie-osmond-fortune-children/index.html  

I’ve also heard her elaborate on that though. Her attitude is basically as Calm suggested-using her money now to help her children now rather than letting them fight over an inheritance after she dies.

[juliann]

9 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

I’ve also heard her elaborate on that though. Her attitude is basically as Calm suggested-using her money now to help her children now rather than letting them fight over an inheritance after she dies.

Well it sounds noble but she is too young to know what she will do if she lives a long life. Priorities change. Especially when grandchildren are around. And I don’t for a minute believe that if one of her kids is a schoolteacher she would leave them with that thin of a financial margin in an uncertain world. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

I’ve also heard her elaborate on that though. Her attitude is basically as Calm suggested-using her money now to help her children now rather than letting them fight over an inheritance after she dies.

That's an excellent way rather then wait until the kids are much older.

[Robert F. Smith]

 

[Jamie]

20 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

Interesting perspective from the Catholic church.  Realizing our potential to become like Christ should help to inspire everyone to want to take up that challenge, giving all that it takes to make it. 

Who wouldn't want to be the best kind of person they could possibly be.

[AtlanticMike]

31 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Who wouldn't want to be the best kind of person they could possibly be.

Most people don't care. 

[Jamie]

10 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Most people don't care. 

I don't believe that.  Sure, some of us do not care about improving themselves, at all, in any way, ever, but I'd say those are a very small percentage of us.

I think for most of us we're just not totally sure how to go about it in some ways until we can see how we can do better.  And to those of us who think that way I will often just say:

"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”  - Maya Angelou

[poptart]

2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Most people don't care. 

True, if they did the world would be a different place.  The fortunate in this country have issues understanding that.

[poptart]

On 5/23/2021 at 5:59 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

 

I find it rather ironic it's you and I who post things like this and none of the other Catholics here do.  Off topic, got a mail advertisement for Bishop Barron's 2nd volume for his word on fire Bible.  Looks like he's getting more of my money soon. Vol one is amazing.

[Spammer]

11 hours ago, poptart said:

I find it rather ironic it's you and I who post things like this and none of the other Catholics here do.  Off topic, got a mail advertisement for Bishop Barron's 2nd volume for his word on fire Bible.  Looks like he's getting more of my money soon. Vol one is amazing.

I have the leather WoF Bible vol 1 and agree it’s amazing. I can’t wait for vol 2. I dig Bishop Barron and his ministry. He’s also full of surprises. Turns out he has impeccable music taste. 

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Spammer

[AtlanticMike]

15 hours ago, Jamie said:

I think for most of us we're just not totally sure how to go about it in some ways until we can see how we can do better. 

Exactly, great point, and I agree with you. Some of the most important things we do in life are hardly ever taught to the younger generation. For instance, learning what to eat and teaching kids that food isn't for comfort, it's for nourishment, isn't taught to many. People get upset when I bring up that point, almost as if I'm insulting them. But in my proffesion I can't have a 5'9" guy who weighs 280 lbs walking on a roof, soon or later gravity is going to win and kerplunk, he's laying on the ground. In my experience most people don't care about dieting once they're overweight not just because theyre lazy, that's usually not it, it's usually because they don't know how to begin. Money management is another subject that's not taught anymore so people are living pay check to pay check.  Also time management, how many people do you know that spend 8 hours a day staring at a screen for entertainment? I'm starting to wonder if this "non education" is being done on purpose to dumb the masses down to make us more willing to become slaves to a very few idiots who want to rule the world. 

Learning new techniques and thought patterns then implementing them in your daily life is one of the hardest things we can do in life. We are creatures of comfort, most human brains resist change because it's uncomfortable. This is hardly ever taught.

Edited May 25, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[MiserereNobis]

7 hours ago, Spammer said:

I have the leather WoF Bible vol 1 and agree it’s amazing. I can’t wait for vol 2. I dig Bishop Barron and his ministry. He’s also full of surprises. Turns out he has impeccable music taste. 

 

I love that he discovered Dylan and Aquinas at the same time, ha. I also dig that he's got the Bard on the wall behind him.

[The Nehor]

23 hours ago, Jamie said:

Who wouldn't want to be the best kind of person they could possibly be.

Most want to. It is just whether they want to put any effort into becoming that person. I know my desires often hit up against painful realities and are partially or completely abandoned.

[poptart]

9 hours ago, Spammer said:

I have the leather WoF Bible vol 1 and agree it’s amazing. I can’t wait for vol 2. I dig Bishop Barron and his ministry. He’s also full of surprises. Turns out he has impeccable music taste. 

 

Here's what made me really like him.

 

[The Nehor]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:21 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Who has the right to tell them what to do with their life’s labor? Or judge them?

Everyone. They can just ignore everyone though.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Exactly, great point, and I agree with you. Some of the most important things we do in life are hardly ever taught to the younger generation. For instance, learning what to eat and teaching kids that food isn't for comfort, it's for nourishment, isn't taught to many. People get upset when I bring up that point, almost as if I'm insulting them. But in my proffesion I can't have a 5'9" guy who weighs 280 lbs walking on a roof, soon or later gravity is going to win and kerplunk, he's laying on the ground. In my experience most people don't care about dieting once they're overweight not just because theyre lazy, that's usually not it, it's usually because they don't know how to begin. Money management is another subject that's not taught anymore so people are living pay check to pay check.  Also time management, how many people do you know that spend 8 hours a day staring at a screen for entertainment? I'm starting to wonder if this "non education" is being done on purpose to dumb the masses down to make us more willing to become slaves to a very few idiots who want to rule the world. 

Learning new techniques and thought patterns then implementing them in your daily life is one of the hardest things we can do in life. We are creatures of comfort, most human brains resist change because it's uncomfortable. This is hardly ever taught.

Financial literacy and basic cooking classes in school are rare in the U.S. despite both being skills almost everyone will have to use at some point. In some homes you can pick up good examples by osmosis. In the homes where the parents don't know anything....well......yeah, that is bad. It is also why even though I am not a fan of most sex ed curriculums I think something is better than the nothing that many parents teach their children.

Basic handiness also seems to diminish by generation unless actively reinforced. My grandfather could build a house. My dad can repair almost everything in one. I think I know more than most in my generation but I know less. The beautiful thing is that with the internet you can learn virtually anything. If something in my house breaks some crazy person will have taken time out of their day to write up some instruction or fixing it and/or have shot a video of them doing it. I don't what motivates these charitable weirdos but I appreciate them.

[Jamie]

47 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Financial literacy and basic cooking classes in school are rare in the U.S. despite both being skills almost everyone will have to use at some point. In some homes you can pick up good examples by osmosis. In the homes where the parents don't know anything....well......yeah, that is bad. It is also why even though I am not a fan of most sex ed curriculums I think something is better than the nothing that many parents teach their children.

Basic handiness also seems to diminish by generation unless actively reinforced. My grandfather could build a house. My dad can repair almost everything in one. I think I know more than most in my generation but I know less. The beautiful thing is that with the internet you can learn virtually anything. If something in my house breaks some crazy person will have taken time out of their day to write up some instruction or fixing it and/or have shot a video of them doing it. I don't what motivates these charitable weirdos but I appreciate them.

I think most people enjoy sharing what they know.  And most people like learning at least something.  Not necessarily everything but at least something. I am also interested in home construction, remodeling, and maintenance.  My sons are into computers.  My wife is into arts and crafts and cooking and baking and gardening, most things pertaining to home making.  And some of what each of us likes rubs off on the others in our family..  

I think of all of the talents and abilities we have on this planet right now even though we don't know everything yet.  As a parent I enjoy having children who know how to do things and enjoy doing those things.  Our Father now has a huge talent pool.

...and some of us will go on to learn everything about everything while enjoying being able to do what they know how to do.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Jamie

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Basic handiness also seems to diminish by generation unless actively reinforced. My grandfather could build a house. My dad can repair almost everything in one. I think I know more than most in my generation but I know less. The beautiful thing is that with the internet you can learn virtually anything. If something in my house breaks some crazy person will have taken time out of their day to write up some instruction or fixing it and/or have shot a video of them doing it. I don't what motivates these charitable weirdos but I appreciate them.

I've learned so much from you tube especially automotive repair and it has saved me thousands in repair bills. I do about 95 percent of all my automotive repair, the only time I take it in is when I can't figure out something with the electrical system. Last year I needed to charge the a/c on my wife's car and they wanted $240. So I went to harbor freight and bought a vacuum pump and gauge set for $80 and watched a couple you tube videos. I couldn't believe how easy it was. Luckily for me being a roofer, most people are to scared to climb on a roof and repair or replace their shingles. That makes me happy happy😁.

 

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Everyone. They can just ignore everyone though.

Ignor-ence is bliss.