Solution to youth leaving the church

[secondclasscitizen]

Bribe them. Inheritance of wealth is contingent upon the kids proving temple worthiness at the time of inheritance. If they can’t then the church wants you to give the money to the church instead. 
 

see video at about 10:30

 

https://archive.org/details/watchvpxa6nt-ydqc

kinda messed up if you ask me. Of course my parents promised me a car and to pay for college if I went on a mission so perhaps it’s a Mormon cultural thing. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[AtlanticMike]

7 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Bribe them. Inheritance of wealth is contingent upon the kids proving temple worthiness at the time of inheritance. If they can’t then the church wants you to give the money to the church instead. 
 

see video at about 10:30

 

https://archive.org/details/watchvpxa6nt-ydqc

kinda messed up if you ask me. Of course my parents promised me a car and to pay for college if I went on a mission so perhaps it’s a Mormon cultural thing. 

I can't find this anywhere else. Is this produced by the church?

[secondclasscitizen]

5 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I can't find this anywhere else. Is this produced by the church?

Yep. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

As far as embarrassing church publications goes, Johnny Lingo is still the best. 

[Chum]

23 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Of course my parents promised me a car and to pay for college if I went on a mission so perhaps it’s a Mormon cultural thing. 

Poor families promise 2 years of a better chance at regular meals.

[AtlanticMike]

4 minutes ago, Chum said:

Poor families promise 2 years of a better chance at regular meals.

We were poor, all I was told was it was part of my priesthood mandate and if I didn't go I would be held responsible after I die.

[Chum]

For US families, the answer seems like a no-brainer to me. Compete with the real world, where adults criminalized unsupervised development time.

Plan and execute frequent, unique, involved away trips and community service projects. Overtly support ambitious leadership and speak out against the culture-of-no.

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

We were poor,

The kids and I lived mostly on rice for a few years - as in beans where an unaffordable luxury but sometimes we could swing an onion.

We often ran out of rice.

[Bernard Gui]

37 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Bribe them. Inheritance of wealth is contingent upon the kids proving temple worthiness at the time of inheritance. If they can’t then the church wants you to give the money to the church instead. 
 

see video at about 10:30

 

https://archive.org/details/watchvpxa6nt-ydqc

kinda messed up if you ask me. Of course my parents promised me a car and to pay for college if I went on a mission so perhaps it’s a Mormon cultural thing. 

How does that differ from this?

Quote

D&C 84:33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.
35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;
36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;
37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.
39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

 

[JamesBYoung]

40 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I can't find this anywhere else. Is this produced by the church?

I have known several families who have left their entire 'fortunes' (in one case, I think very substantial) to the church instead of to children who were estranged from it.

 

[AtlanticMike]

17 minutes ago, Chum said:

The kids and I lived mostly on rice for a few years - as in beans where an unaffordable luxury but sometimes we could swing an onion.

We often ran out of rice.

Ok, you were definitely poor. Did you live in the states?

[secondclasscitizen]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

How does that differ from this?

 

Well for one the first quote from me is straight up bribery. If you think it is becoming of faithful lds families to bribe their children to act (I say act because it isn’t genuine or for the right reason) righteous then so be it. 
 

the second is a scripture quote and it isn’t the same thing. The lord requires faithfulness and the benefit is pretty much intangible whatever it may be. 
 

going  on a mission cuz u got paid off is even worse than not going at all. It makes you a fake and the Lord knows the difference.

Edited May 22, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[AtlanticMike]

16 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

I have known several families who have left their entire 'fortunes' (in one case, I think very substantial) to the church instead of to children who were estranged from it.

 

Maybe because my kids are still young, but I can't imagine not leaving them an equal inheritance. Maybe I'm just naive, but I would think that not giving an equal amount would just cause more tension and jealousy after I die. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Bernard Gui]

29 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Well for one the first quote from me is straight up bribery. If you think it is becoming of faithful lds families to bribe their children to act (I say act because it isn’t genuine or for the right reason) righteous then so be it. 
 

the second is a scripture quote and it isn’t the same thing. The lord requires faithfulness and the benefit is pretty much intangible whatever it may be. 
 

going  on a mission cuz u got paid off is even worse than not going at all. It makes you a fake and the Lord knows the difference.

Watching the whole video gives perspective and context. How do you know the children in that family would go on missions for that reason?

If we are faithful to the oath and covenant of the Priesthood, then all the Father has will be given us...our eternal inheritance is conditional. (Temple worthiness).
 

Seems like your position makes that bribery.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

33 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

I have known several families who have left their entire 'fortunes' (in one case, I think very substantial) to the church instead of to children who were estranged from it.

 

Who has the right to determine where their life’s labors go when they die?

Edited May 22, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Bribe them. Inheritance of wealth is contingent upon the kids proving temple worthiness at the time of inheritance. If they can’t then the church wants you to give the money to the church instead. ................

https://archive.org/details/watchvpxa6nt-ydqc

kinda messed up if you ask me. Of course my parents promised me a car and to pay for college if I went on a mission so perhaps it’s a Mormon cultural thing. 

Some Jewish parents in America use both bribery and shaming (The traditional Yiddische Mama putting a guilt trip on her children), and that has gotten some very good results -- so far as professional, worldly attainment is concerned.  Jews go to college and get degrees at a much higher rate than nearly any other group.

However, this LDS Philanthropies video puts things in much broader perspective.  Very nice.

[Robert F. Smith]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Watching the whole video gives perspective and context. How do you know the children in that family would go on missions for that reason?

If we are faithful to the oath and covenant of the Priesthood, then all the Father has will be given us...our eternal inheritance is conditional. Seems like your position makes that bribery.

OTOH, do we do good because of an eternal reward to be earned, or do we do it out of love (wrongly termed "charity" in the KJV).

[Robert F. Smith]

56 minutes ago, Chum said:

For US families, the answer seems like a no-brainer to me. Compete with the real world, where adults criminalized unsupervised development time.

Plan and execute frequent, unique, involved away trips and community service projects. Overtly support ambitious leadership and speak out against the culture-of-no.

Sorry, I don't get it. 

[Bernard Gui]

17 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

OTOH, do we do good because of an eternal reward to be earned, or do we do it out of love (wrongly termed "charity" in the KJV).

Thanks. That was going to be my next point if the discussion continued. I suppose there may be a combination of the two, at least at first, but ultimately it must be motivated by unselfish love.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Chum]

50 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Ok, you were definitely poor. Did you live in the states?

Yes. One of the states overtly hostile to helping folks in need.

[Chum]

17 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sorry, I don't get it.

Okay. Thanks for letting me know.

[secondclasscitizen]

46 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Watching the whole video gives perspective and context. How do you know the children in that family would go on missions for that reason?

If we are faithful to the oath and covenant of the Priesthood, then all the Father has will be given us...our eternal inheritance is conditional. (Temple worthiness).
 

Seems like your position makes that bribery.

All I know is if they don’t no money for them and they know it too. 
 

if you don’t believe there is a difference between actual faithfulness and faking it for money then can’t help you. 

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

All I know is if they don’t no money for them and they know it too. 

if you don’t believe there is a difference between actual faithfulness and faking it for money then can’t help you. 

For some, I suspect there's a notion of getting them out into the mission field by any way possible - and let the experience do it's work. Perhaps it will change them, maybe that change will become conversion. Perhaps not. 

Crap eventually happens when we take risks. It doesn't when we don't.  I've learned tons from launching myself into things I wasn't remotely prepared for.

Also there's something to be said for learning how to embrace things going down in flames.

[Rain]

Having a brother who was an addict and an alcoholic before he died last year and seeing what my parents went through as they decided what to do with the money they left behind I don't have any problem with the idea that if your kids don't live up to your beliefs then the money may go to the church.

Now what those required beliefs entail may be a problem.

For one thing the blessings are pretty much spiritual when you inherit from God.  Some might make the argument that you will have access to all temporal things, but if I understand God right material wealth just doesn't mean much in the celestial kingdom, at least in the way it does here.  

I think tying spiritual beliefs to material inheritance is a real problem though for a number of reasons.

But if your beliefs are that you want your children to be able to handle money and material wealth well then I have no problem tying those together.  

My parents figured it out by having a trust for my brother.  The inheritance would help him handle basic needs (he had many), but would not allow him to do further damage to himself.

If my children were not handling things well with their own money I would not leave money to them. There are a number of things people would look at and say, "you didn't leave them money because they didn't believe in the church the way you do!" For example if my child was drinking excessively I would be very careful if and how I left money because I am familiar with alcoholism, but others might blame it on the Word of Wisdom. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Rain

[rodheadlee]

8 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

All I know is if they don’t no money for them and they know it too. 
 

if you don’t believe there is a difference between actual faithfulness and faking it for money then can’t help you. 

Yeah it's much better to see the children lie cheat and steal over the inheritance. I have seen this happen with every family.

Edited May 23, 2021 by rodheadlee