How do you fast?

[nuclearfuels]

Questions:

1. Does fasting for more than one person or more than one purpose lesson the strength or potency of one's fasting? I hope not

2. Is it kosher to fast as a part of the repentance process? The Great and Last Sacrifice was the Savior so fasting as a sacrifice offering to demonstrate one's repentance seems amiss, no?

3. Is fasting without a purpose meaningless?

[rongo]

50 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Questions:

1. Does fasting for more than one person or more than one purpose lesson the strength or potency of one's fasting? I hope not

2. Is it kosher to fast as a part of the repentance process? The Great and Last Sacrifice was the Savior so fasting as a sacrifice offering to demonstrate one's repentance seems amiss, no?

3. Is fasting without a purpose meaningless?

My views:

[ETA]: Sorry! I didn't read carefully enough. I thought you were asking about more than one person fasting for the same thing. As to your original question, no, I don't think fasting for more than one person lessens the strength or potency of fasting one bit]

1) I believe that it does. That's why we fast together on Fast Sunday, sometimes for common things. I believe that the combined prayers and fasting is powerful. Maybe not more powerful than a powerful "solo" fast for a purpose, but I believe it's good to do everything that is at one's disposal. Even better than fasting (or, actually, best in conjunction with fasting), is participating in the prayer circle in the temple with a purpose (i.e., going to the temple to pray for someone(s), actually writing their names on the slip, and then doing a session and being in the circle). Yes, people can and do call multiple temples and just "get the names put on the list," but to me, in my experience, treating it like an ordinance (physical, with my participation) has more meaning. I have seen immediate miracles through this --- sometimes when going to the temple to pray as a bishopric, or a ward council (and then participating together in the circle for that person or family). 

If someone doesn't have access to that, I believe that God will "own and honor" the best that they can do, which would be fasting. 

2) Absolutely. In spades! The first stake president I served under believed strongly in fasting, and recommended it for all "this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting" situations. I don't think fasting seems amiss in light of Christ's sacrifice --- completely the opposite, in fact.

3) Without a purpose, you would only have the health benefits of fasting now and then, in my opinion. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by rongo

[Kenngo1969]

 

Quote

1. Does fasting for more than one person or more than one purpose lesson the strength or potency of one's fasting? I hope not.

I don't think so, not necessarily.  If the Spirit prompts one to fast both for purposes A and B and for persons A and B, I don't see anything wrong with it.  The Holy Spirit is the agent of the Lord of the Universe, and, generally, I try to avoid questioning what He tells me to do.

Quote

2. Is it kosher to fast as a part of the repentance process? The Great and Last Sacrifice was the Savior so fasting as a sacrifice offering to demonstrate one's repentance seems amiss, no?

To demonstrate one's repentance?  Hmm.  I've never heard of one fasting to demonstrate one's repentance.  Could one fast for needed spiritual strength to avoid temptation and/or to overcome sin?  Sure.  On the other hand, while I wouldn't call it "demonstrating" one's repentance, could one fast as a token of one's gratitude for having become a new creature in Christ?  Perhaps.  The only sacrifices I'm aware of, with which the Lord of the Universe has commanded be done away, are burnt offerings.

Quote

3. Is fasting without a purpose meaningless?

Fasting without any purpose whatsoever?  Yeah, I would say that's pretty meaningless, but I would hope that the tragedies and the catastrophes do not pile up so fast in one's life that every monthly fast (not to mention the times in the interim in which one might follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit to do so) is an effort to cope with some momentous event or circumstance.  If everything is going swimmingly in one's life and he has no major issues or problems to speak of (how would it be? ) I don't think there's anything wrong with having a "general" fast.  Perhaps, even if one has no major problems or issues, s/he could fast simply for the gift of greater discernment to be able to see more clearly the hand of God in one's day-to-day life.  (I could use that one: Maybe I'll fast for that this Sunday! )

Results not guaranteed, actual results vary, restrictions apply, not available in all areas, see your local merchant for details, void where prohibited.

P.S.:  I toyed around with the idea of saying simply, "Meh, I fast pretty slowly, if you want to know the truth."   Right or wrong, good or bad, meaningful or not, I hope, however, that the foregoing isn't entirely useless!

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[rongo]

Regarding the prayer circle in the temple, there are two anecdotes I really like, both from George Q. Cannon. I think that fasting is certainly part of "praying in the right way:"

---

While Brother Woodruff was speaking about what President Young had told him in Winter Quarters . . . a thing came to my mind that I was taught in the same way in the beginning of my labors on my first mission, and the impression it made upon my mind has been a lasting one; I have never forgotten it . . .

There were ten of us, of whom I was the youngest, wind-bound in the Bay of San Francisco, and we had been thus delayed for nearly a week near the Golden Gate in consequence of head winds. I dreamed one night that this party of brethren were heaving at the windlass, having a rope attached to it reaching forward to the anchor at the bow of the vessel. We were working with all our might endeavoring to raise the anchor, but seemingly we made but little progress. While thus engaged . . . the Prophet Joseph came from the after part of the vessel dressed in his temple clothes, and tapping me on the shoulder told me to go with him. I went, and he climbed on to the forecastle which was higher than the main deck and on a level with the bulwarks, and there he knelt down . . . He prayed according to the order of prayer which is revealed. After prayer, he arose upon his feet. "Now," said he, "George, take hold of that rope—the rope we had been pulling on with all our might. I took hold of it, and with the greatest ease and without the least effort, the anchor was raised." "Now," said he, "let this be a lesson to you; remember that great things can be accomplished through the power of prayer and the exercise of faith in the right way."

I would like to impress this, with what Brother Woodruff has told you, upon the minds of the young, also upon the middle-aged and the aged of this congregation if they choose to take it; great is the power of prayer when properly offered to the Lord. Whatever success I have had upon my missions in battling with the adversaries of this people, in being able to hold my position when warred upon—and it seemed that nothing in the world but the power of God could save me or prevent legislation adverse to this people—whatever success there may be about this in the past, throughout my life—and I believe it was the case with my predecessors—it has been due to faith and prayer. I have remembered this always . . .

Men have met in secret in holy places, and have besought God in the appointed way, according to the holy order revealed, and deliverance has been wrought out for Zion, when it seemed that everything was dark before them and without one ray of light. At such times, when everything has been hedged up, the servants of God have met in secret places and have plead with God according to the holy order, and the heavens have been moved, and difficulties have vanished away, and our path has been made plain before us . . . (George Q. Cannon; Hooper, Utah; June 27, 1881; Journal of Discourses 22:290).

---

I was very much struck by a statement made to me by President Taylor since my return, showing that faith when connected with works accomplishes wonderful results. Brother Caine and myself, with some other Utah friends, were in the Senate chamber on the 23d of February last, watching Senator Edmunds' attempt to get through his special legislation of which you have read. It seemed as though nothing could prevent it. Senators with whom we had conversed said that they saw no possible chance of stopping it; that its passage seemed inevitable. But . . . one by one [many supporters] stole from the Senate Chamber while the bill was under discussion . . . and the first that was known when a vote was called was that a quorum was not present. In the absence of a quorum, you know, a legislative body is powerless to act. For four hours Senator Edmunds did all in his power to get action on his bill; but every attempt was resisted by the Democrats upon the ground that there was no quorum, and they accordingly fillibustered until Edmunds, disgusted and tired, called for an adjournment.

President Taylor told me upon my return that, on the 22d of February, feeling exercised in his mind about our political affairs, and that it was a time of peril, he called a few of the brethren together and they met at the Endowment House according to the holy order, and besought God, in the name of Jesus, to baffle the plans of our enemies and frustrate them in their designs, and put them to confusion and shame. In watching Senator Edmunds that evening, I thought that if ever there was a man confused, chagrined and confounded at the futility of his own attempts, it was he. And there is no doubt in my mind that the prayers of President Taylor and the brethren ascended favorably unto the ears of the God of Sabaoth, and were heard and answered. The dreadful wrong was defeated and failed, and it may be said, it met with its death blow; for every attempt afterwards made to bring it up, was unsuccessful. In this way God has wrought out deliverance for Zion. (George Q. Cannon; Assembly Hall, Salt Lake City; March 18, 1883; Journal of Discourses 24:63)

[JLHPROF]

55 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Questions:

1. Does fasting for more than one person or more than one purpose lesson the strength or potency of one's fasting? I hope not

2. Is it kosher to fast as a part of the repentance process? The Great and Last Sacrifice was the Savior so fasting as a sacrifice offering to demonstrate one's repentance seems amiss, no?

3. Is fasting without a purpose meaningless?

1. No, I don't think so.  But I do think being focused on the purpose of the fast has an impact on strength.  Kind of like faith.  The more it's split the less the focus.

2. Yes, I believe fasting is absolutely appropriate for repentance.  It chastens the flesh and increases our nearness to God.  That sounds like repentance to me.  And it to me seems to have a connection to the sackcloth and ashes of scriptural penitents. And Rongo already mentioned the "this kind goeth not out but by fasting" doctrine.

3. Fasting without a spiritual purpose can still have health benefits and if done according to the true law of the fast can still increase the spirit.

Edited February 5, 2021 by JLHPROF

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, rongo said:

Even better than fasting (or, actually, best in conjunction with fasting), is participating in the prayer circle in the temple with a purpose (i.e., going to the temple to pray for someone(s), actually writing their names on the slip, and then doing a session and being in the circle). Yes, people can and do call multiple temples and just "get the names put on the list," but to me, in my experience, treating it like an ordinance (physical, with my participation) has more meaning. I have seen immediate miracles through this --- sometimes when going to the temple to pray as a bishopric, or a ward council (and then participating together in the circle for that person or family). 

Imagine how many more there could be if the initiated were permitted to use what they were instructed on a local personal level.
 

Quote

If someone doesn't have access to that, I believe that God will "own and honor" the best that they can do, which would be fasting. 

I would say the power of the three day fast is truly potent.  Some have called this the true fast, symbolic of Christ's death, time in the grave, and resurrection.  I have only completed a few full 3 days fasts in my life and on at least two of them I saw immediate miraculous changes in my life.
I wish my medical issues would permit me to do that again.

[Chum]

The gallstones that hit Sun prompted 3 days of fasting until I could score surgery. It's complicated but I do feel blessed now.

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Questions:

1. Does fasting for more than one person or more than one purpose lesson the strength or potency of one's fasting? I hope not

2. Is it kosher to fast as a part of the repentance process? The Great and Last Sacrifice was the Savior so fasting as a sacrifice offering to demonstrate one's repentance seems amiss, no?

3. Is fasting without a purpose meaningless?

I don't know why they call it fasting.  It usually slows down my bodily functions.

1.  I don't see why it would, necessarily.  Fasting is to simply go without food, although when we go without food we usually to it for a specific reason or for a specific purpose.  And we usually encourage praying when going without food.

2. You can go without food for any reason you want.

3. No, and there is always a purpose to go without food, even if the purpose is simply to go without having some food.  Most often we do it so we can pray more because if we're not eating then we have more time to do other things.

 

[rongo]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Imagine how many more there could be if the initiated were permitted to use what they were instructed on a local personal level.

I was surprised years ago to read in a (wonderful, well-written and researched) published history of the Morgan Utah Stake that stake prayer circles were abolished in the early 80s. I asked my parents about this, and they said, oh, yes, they used to do these as a high council or a stake presidency in the stake center. 

 

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I would say the power of the three day fast is truly potent.  Some have called this the true fast, symbolic of Christ's death, time in the grave, and resurrection.  I have only completed a few full 3 days fasts in my life and on at least two of them I saw immediate miraculous changes in my life. I wish my medical issues would permit me to do that again.

I once fasted three times in one week on my mission. I had to make a difficult decision on whether to approve someone for baptism, and the mission president told me it was my decision, not his. I had experience with revelation, and fully expected one, but got nothing. So I fasted and continued to get nothing. I wondered if no answer was itself an answer, but felt unsatisfied with either a yes or a no decision, so I fasted again. And called the mission president again, and again he told me I needed to make the decision, not him. In the end, the whole process was valuable --- including God not giving me needed revelation I was worthy to receive at the time. Often, fasting seems like this for me --- the spiritual benefits are felt during the fast, but especially after the fast is over, in retrospect. 

I love my career as a teacher, but my first day was really rough. My first school was so rough, I could have gone into Compton or Watts and done better after that initial year. When the assistant principal came in after school to see how it had gone, I was honest with her. She knew I was a religious Mormon from my interviews, and I knew she was a devout Protestant. She was a special person with a special spirit about her. When I told her I was seriously thinking about doing something else, it had been that bad, I told her that I was going to fast tonight and the next day. She said, "Let's pray," and we prayed in the classroom. My second day went much, much better. I know that fasting and faith played a big part in that. 

I've really loved seeing my children do fasts on their own (not on Fast Sundays or even Sundays) when they have special blessings they are seeking. We don't always even know what it is they are fasting for. 

[carbon dioxide]

We are constantly eating in our family.  So the best time to fast is when we sleep.  It raises an issue.  If one meal bleeds into the next or if you are like a Hobbit and you have many small meals during the day, fasting for 2 meals can be just fasting for 4 hours.

Edited February 6, 2021 by carbon dioxide

[The Nehor]

I eat one meal a day most days. If I sneak in a prayer do I get the blessings of fasting two meals every day?

[rongo]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I eat one meal a day most days. If I sneak in a prayer do I get the blessings of fasting two meals every day?

Are you praying for a specific purpose, and dedicating your two meals to something? If not, then you are just eating one meal a day. You get the health benefits of limiting your caloric intake. 

[rongo]

12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

We are constantly eating in our family.  So the best time to fast is when we sleep.  It raises an issue.  If one meal bleeds into the next or if you are like a Hobbit and you have many small meals during the day, fasting for 2 meals can be just fasting for 4 hours.

When our family was young, a talk in Priesthood session of conference woke me up to the fact that "two meals" means "24 hours." I remember eating heartily just before midnight of fast Sunday, not eating breakfast, and having a big lunch. There is a big difference between that and beginning your fast after dinner on Saturday, and breaking your fast with Sunday dinner. 

My wife can't fast for health reasons, so she takes her warfarin with some crackers or cereal in the morning, and then has some crackers or cereal as needed. She receives all the benefits of the fast that the rest of us do because of where her heart is, praying/fasting with a purpose, etc. 

[longview]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I eat one meal a day most days. If I sneak in a prayer do I get the blessings of fasting two meals every day?

If you are comfortable, then it really is NOT a fast.  Besides, sneaking in a prayer also requires you to give Fast Offerings (equivalent of two meals or more).

[Bernard Gui]

On 2/5/2021 at 11:08 AM, JLHPROF said:

I would say the power of the three day fast is truly potent.  Some have called this the true fast, symbolic of Christ's death, time in the grave, and resurrection.  I have only completed a few full 3 days fasts in my life and on at least two of them I saw immediate miraculous changes in my life.
I wish my medical issues would permit me to do that again.

Do you have any references from LDS sources that recommend a three day fast.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Do you have any references from LDS sources that recommend a three day fast.

The Church doesn't recommend it and hasn't in years.  I also don't believe it's generally necessary.  I do believe it is a special, powerful, rare thing to do.

Paul did it in Acts after his conversion on the road to Damascus.  Queen Esther likewise did it along with others.  So did Alma and Jonah (unwillingly).  And Joseph in Egypt.

I'm not sure there's much other reference to back it up but I know I've read of the practice in the early Utah period.  It was common enough that Heber C. Kimball had to warn Bishops not to require it.  Brigham Young's daughter used the three day fast as part of the conclusion in a novella she published. She also claimed it was used at the time of the miracle of the gulls.

I also found a second hand account attributing the recommendation to Joseph:

"Those stubborn fits would not stop. We had heard the prophet Joseph say inasmuch as any member of a family was sick, if the heads of the family would fast three days they should get better. We knowing him to be a true prophet of God therefore we believed what he said. My wife proposed a fast, I replied if you think that you can stand it nursing a child I certainly will try it." Joseph Robinson Journal June 1845

ETA - just found this more recent reference.  Talk about a powerful answer.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/baptism-beach-an-african-symbol-of-how-1978-revelation-changed-the-church?lang=eng

Edited February 8, 2021 by JLHPROF

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:54 PM, carbon dioxide said:

We are constantly eating in our family.  So the best time to fast is when we sleep.  It raises an issue.  If one meal bleeds into the next or if you are like a Hobbit and you have many small meals during the day, fasting for 2 meals can be just fasting for 4 hours.

 

On 2/7/2021 at 4:56 AM, rongo said:

When our family was young, a talk in Priesthood session of conference woke me up to the fact that "two meals" means "24 hours." I remember eating heartily just before midnight of fast Sunday, not eating breakfast, and having a big lunch. There is a big difference between that and beginning your fast after dinner on Saturday, and breaking your fast with Sunday dinner. 

The entry on fasting in the General Handbook was actually updated in December to make this point clearer:

Quote

A fast day typically includes praying, going without food and drink for a 24-hour period (if physically able), and giving a generous fast offering.

There is no more reference to two meals. Like The Nehor, I only eat one meal most days (though I drink water frequently unless actually fasting), and I have lived in places where the assumption of three meals a day makes no sense. This is, in my opinion, a good change in language for an increasingly global Church.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Ahab]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:58 AM, The Nehor said:

I eat one meal a day most days. If I sneak in a prayer do I get the blessings of fasting two meals every day?

What blessings from going without food (fasting) are you talking about?  If you want blessings from God for going without food then ask God (pray) for something before you go without food (fast) and then see if he will bless you.

Fasting is to simply go without food.  Breakfast is called breakfast because it ends the fast of going without food during the night, for most people who sleep and don't eat while they are sleeping.

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Fasting is to simply go without food. 

It's really not.
Well, I mean it is by definition.  But in a gospel sense fasting is more than just going without food.

[poptart]

I do intermittent fasting, it's very good for you.  

I do a 16 hour fast, from 6 pm to about 10 am, nothing.  I occasionally cheat.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It's really not.
Well, I mean it is by definition.  But in a gospel sense fasting is more than just going without food.

I think you mean "our Church culture" sense when you say "gospel" sense.  In our Church when we use the word fast we are usually referring to fasting combined with prayer, but as you just admitted, fasting itself simply refers to going without food.

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I think you mean "our Church culture" sense when you say "gospel" sense.  In our Church when we use the word fast we are usually referring to fasting combined with prayer, but as you just admitted, fasting itself simply refers to going without food.

Semantics, but sure.

[nuclearfuels]

On 2/5/2021 at 2:08 PM, JLHPROF said:

I saw immediate miraculous changes in my life

Thank you for sharing. That's beautiful

[nuclearfuels]

On 2/5/2021 at 2:00 PM, rongo said:

I think that fasting is certainly part of "praying in the right way:"

Beautiful stories, Rongo. Thank you for sharing

[Stargazer]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:10 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Questions:

1. Does fasting for more than one person or more than one purpose lesson the strength or potency of one's fasting? I hope not

That would be a no.

On 2/5/2021 at 6:10 PM, nuclearfuels said:

2. Is it kosher to fast as a part of the repentance process? The Great and Last Sacrifice was the Savior so fasting as a sacrifice offering to demonstrate one's repentance seems amiss, no?

I should think so1

On 2/5/2021 at 6:10 PM, nuclearfuels said:

3. Is fasting without a purpose meaningless?

Fasting without a purpose is not meaningless. It is however, not fasting, it is starvation. Whether one does it deliberately or not.