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1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

(1) The church helps support organisations which amplify people inciting violence

This is absolute nonsense.  And what makes it even more troubling, is that you are smarter than this.  Don't use sophistry to try and take cheap jabs at the LDS Church.  It is unbecoming.

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10 minutes ago, Nevo said:

Just to clarify, the meme was originated by a kid named Braden. I won't give his last name because I don't think he should be hounded for the rest of his life about this lapse in judgment. Brad Witbeck, the other host of This Is the Show, had nothing to do with it. His Twitter feed is pretty innocuous, actually. 

Thanks, I got confused thinking Brad was short for Braden. 

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1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

 

There is a fundamental difference between what flows from a center of religious-social-political power and what flows from those who resist it. 

Any church-supported influencer merits more scrutiny because of that, simply because of the innate power of the church.

Please don't forget that church versus exmos are not equivalent opposing forces.

Now explain how this works in real life.   How does this philosophy work when that weaker force sues the so called powerful one? Have you ever been sued? 

The lawsuit was frivolous. She lost in summary judgment in district then circuit court. In the meantime, it ran up over a hundred grand in legal bills for that oh so powerful FM. Fortunately, we were able to get pro bono help. The Utah LIghthouse made it a fundraiser which is probably why Tanner kept it going. Sort of an equivalent to Dehlin using overworked community resources like 911 to maintain a vendetta. These less powerful forces with far more money are forced to abuse courts and 911, I suppose. Anyway, a brand new lawyer with the newest bar license number in the state at the time now has his name on Tenth Circuit case law. Another powerful force, right? 

So how powerful do you think FM people were against a professional anti-Mormon business, Meadowchik? Do you know what it is like to know you will lose your home if the petty tyrant prevails, Meadowchik?  Do you know how long lawsuits go on? Do you realize that everyone Tanner named had to have a lawyer?  

BTW, this was such an egregious  lawsuit, a good law firm stepped up for the Circuit Court appeal that Tanner  filed. (She waited until the last day of the deadline to keep the fun going as long as possible.)  The Ralph Nadar foundation offered help because the Tenth Circuit was a donut hole that needed to be filled because only citizens in its boundaries weren't protected against people like the Lighthouse owners. 

How does your computer keyboard philosophy play out for the real people involved, Meadowchik?

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9 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:
1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

(1) The church helps support organisations which amplify people inciting violence

This is absolute nonsense.  And what makes it even more troubling, is that you are smarter than this.  Don't use sophistry to try and take cheap jabs at the LDS Church.  It is unbecoming.

When you read the comments that come up during his podcast, it's obvious that Dehlin himself is amplifying and inflaming hate among his listeners.
Almost everything he claims when he is speaking he qualifies it with statements like "I could be wrong", "I'm not sure abut this", "Maybe I don't have all the information", Maybe my calculations are wrong", etc. He appears to be mostly guessing and making assumptions about many things.
 

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17 minutes ago, JAHS said:

When you read the comments that come up during his podcast, it's obvious that Dehlin himself is amplifying and inflaming hate among his listeners.
Almost everything he claims when he is speaking he qualifies it with statements like "I could be wrong", "I'm not sure abut this", "Maybe I don't have all the information", Maybe my calculations are wrong", etc. He appears to be mostly guessing and making assumptions about many things.
 

Has Dehlin let his followers know that he texted the retweeters asking to be on their podcast after calling 911?  Has anyone?

 

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22 minutes ago, juliann said:

Now explain how this works in real life.   How does this philosophy work when that weaker force sues the so called powerful one? Have you ever been sued? 

The lawsuit was frivolous. She lost in summary judgment in district then circuit court. In the meantime, it ran up over a hundred grand in legal bills for that oh so powerful FM. Fortunately, we were able to get pro bono help. The Utah LIghthouse made it a fundraiser which is probably why Tanner kept it going. Sort of an equivalent to Dehlin using overworked community resources like 911 to maintain a vendetta. These less powerful forces with far more money are forced to abuse courts and 911, I suppose. Anyway, a brand new lawyer with the newest bar license number in the state at the time now has his name on Tenth Circuit case law. Another powerful force, right? 

So how powerful do you think FM people were against a professional anti-Mormon business, Meadowchik? Do you know what it is like to know you will lose your home if the petty tyrant prevails, Meadowchik?  Do you know how long lawsuits go on? Do you realize that everyone Tanner named had to have a lawyer?  

BTW, this was such an egregious  lawsuit, a good law firm stepped up for the Circuit Court appeal that Tanner  filed. (She waited until the last day of the deadline to keep the fun going as long as possible.)  The Ralph Nadar foundation offered help because the Tenth Circuit was a donut hole that needed to be filled because only citizens in its boundaries weren't protected against people like the Lighthouse owners. 

How does your computer keyboard philosophy play out for the real people involved, Meadowchik?

I'm sure it would have been nice if FAIR could have relied on the power and support of the church to handle that lawsuit.  

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3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm sure it would have been nice if FAIR could have relied on the power and support of the church to handle that lawsuit.  

My ward clerk ward mission leader at the time (David Barker) represented FAIR pro bono in front of the Circuit Court of Appeals in that UTLM case. He said it was nerve-wracking, but the experience of a lifetime for a patent attorney. :) FAIR had the facts on their side.

Edited by rongo
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Just now, bluebell said:

I'm sure it would have been nice if FAIR could have relied on the power and support of the church to handle that lawsuit.  

Oh, not necessary! We were supported merely by them being "a center of religious-social-political power!"

 

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2 minutes ago, rongo said:

My ward clerk ward mission leader at the time (David Barker) represented FAIR pro bono in front of the Circuit Court of Appeals in that UTLM case. He said it was nerve-wracking, but the experience of a lifetime for a patent attorney. :) FAIR had the facts on their side.

I'm out of rep points so a :good: will have to do.

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2 minutes ago, rongo said:

My ward clerk ward mission leader at the time (David Barker) represented FAIR pro bono in front of the Circuit Court of Appeals in that UTLM case. He said it was nerve-wracking, but the experience of a lifetime for a patent attorney. :) FAIR had the facts on their side.

Facts, schmacks. All that was required for the win is the church is "a center of religious-social-political power!" 

Nothing was funny at the time, but it is rather hilarious that Tanner was so invested in her revenge that she had no idea what she unleased in the legal community who saw what was at stake. 

 

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I have a hard time believing John Dehlin is scared of violence from this video when the only place I can find it currently is on his YouTube page. 
 

also this from Kate Kelly:

I’m an exmormon critic for what it’s worth. I think the video was in extreme poor taste, but pretty much everything mister Dehlin is associated with is in poor taste. 

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18 minutes ago, juliann said:

Oh, not necessary! We were supported merely by them being "a center of religious-social-political power!"

 

And I'm sure that knowing that the church would sometimes point CES teachers to FAIR on occasion also helped lighten the load.  

Edited by bluebell
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10 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I have a hard time believing John Dehlin is scared of violence from this video when the only place I can find it currently is on his YouTube page. 
 

also this from Kate Kelly:

I’m an exmormon critic for what it’s worth. I think the video was in extreme poor taste, but pretty much everything mister Dehlin is associated with is in poor taste. 

The KK/Dehlin rivalry is delicious.

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12 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I have a hard time believing John Dehlin is scared of violence from this video when the only place I can find it currently is on his YouTube page. 
 

also this from Kate Kelly:

I’m an exmormon critic for what it’s worth. I think the video was in extreme poor taste, but pretty much everything mister Dehlin is associated with is in poor taste. 

If Dehlin is trying to get on their shows himself, why would he think that KK being on it meant anything?

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17 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I have a hard time believing John Dehlin is scared of violence from this video when the only place I can find it currently is on his YouTube page. 
 

also this from Kate Kelly:

I’m an exmormon critic for what it’s worth. I think the video was in extreme poor taste, but pretty much everything mister Dehlin is associated with is in poor taste. 

The common theme here is that John has a history of causing drama while profiting from it and his abuses towards women and the vulnerable seeking help when their lives turn upside down from disbelief.  He’s a megalomaniac. 

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35 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I have a hard time believing John Dehlin is scared of violence from this video when the only place I can find it currently is on his YouTube page. 
 

also this from Kate Kelly:

I’m an exmormon critic for what it’s worth. I think the video was in extreme poor taste, but pretty much everything mister Dehlin is associated with is in poor taste. 

I do think FM should remove some of Kwaku's videos on their website (the violent video retweeted by others elsewhere was promptly taken down). But I also hope they don't give up on this format if it is well done. And I think it can be. 

But I so agree that this is a matter of double standards. That is the discussion that I would hope comes from this. People need to own what they do if they want credibility.

Edited by juliann
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25 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

The KK/Dehlin rivalry is delicious.

He has been unable to maintain the respect of many in the greater Mormon community....aside from those who defend the church. That would be an interesting story in and of itself. He has certainly come under fire for his treatment of women. 

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2 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Meadowchick must has missed the pinned thread at the top of the forum.  Maybe the church needs a pinned topic like that also. 

I saw it and frankly the tone seems insincere and confusing.

But sure, the church "pinning posts" in its own way is imo a good idea.

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1 minute ago, juliann said:

He has been unable to maintain the respect of many in the greater Mormon community....aside from those who defend the church. That would be an interesting story in and of itself. He has certainly come under fire for his treatment of women. 

Yes he has. I would be happy to see him fade into obscurity where social media is concerned.

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11 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

JD plays both sides public and private. 

I'm pretty sure this was behind his rage over a very academic "hit piece" that had him objecting to anyone using his own words to analyze his work. 

 https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/SMITH1-Review-Mormon-Stories.pdf

Edited by juliann
grammar
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5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Well, this thread went crazy over the weekend.

I think we can all agree that

 1- Racism is bad

 2- Violence is bad

 3- general rudeness is bad

 4- How people respond to the FAIR approved videos remains to be seen

 5- Neither FAIR nor the Church are about inciting violence on anybody, even critics

 

We agree on these things, right?

Yup. 

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