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Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy


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34 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Would you please summarize what is going on: the relationship between "the show" and FairMormon, and if there is any level of selection/review/approval/oversight for the show content and presenters, and how that is done --thank you!

An announcement will be made. I will try and answer questions after that is out. 

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8 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

FAIR lost my vote with its association with Bill Reel.   Not that my vote means anything.  

Before or after his apostasy?  Because he was asked to leave when he started criticizing the Church.  Any connection Bill claimed after that was false. We have removed any material he contributed to remove any perceived connection. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

Church assets support the More Good Foundation which supports FAIR. That is my understanding.

 

I think their taxes show that they did receive some funding from More Good ($120,000?) last year, which they used to hire a bookkeeper (again, if I'm remembering correctly).  I don't think that would equate to FM being supported by the church though. 

It looks like Mormon Stories brings in more money than FM.

It doesn't look like it's really the church vs. exmos with this issue, but FM verses Mormon Stories.  And if the two aren't equal then it's probably skewed in MS's favor if we are going off of finances. 

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Just now, Calm said:

This is being inflated so much. Please don’t believe everything Dehlin is speculating about.

I'm open to correction and I apologize if what I said is inaccurate. But I think there is enough evidence for what I said:

From the More Good Foundation's 2019 taxes:

image.png.380fd7ef4fc6c5613e23936d6638fa8d.png

LINK

And From the More Good Foundation's Website:

image.png.865861ff30ae91789777c66d8333cb27.png

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Quote

It looks like Mormon Stories brings in more money than FM.


Much more. His paycheck could cover FM’s budget for a nice bit. And he gets paid more the more donations his podcasts bring in, so he needs to keep looking for new and attention getting ways to get people interested. 
 

On the other hand, the only thing we get when people view our videos is a sense of satisfaction...and happiness if they write us and say we have helped them. People’s gratitude is our only real reward.   Any more donations go to projects and basic cost such as paying for the website, running the conference and our par timers, our bookstore employee and our new admin assistant who does not write or respond for any apologetics material, though of course her work will make it easier for others to devote time.....or maybe get some of their life back after decades of using up spare time doing the grunt work as much as anything prestigious. 

Edited by Calm
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4 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm open to correction and I apologize if what I said is inaccurate. But I think there is enough evidence for what I said:

From the More Good Foundation's 2019 taxes:

image.png.380fd7ef4fc6c5613e23936d6638fa8d.png

LINK

And From the More Good Foundation's Website:

image.png.865861ff30ae91789777c66d8333cb27.png

A one time payment of even that amount, while highly appreciated, is not going keep us going for long. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

Church assets support the More Good Foundation which supports FAIR. That is my understanding.

 

This board is strictly privately funded by myself.  I do not accept donations of any kind from any  persons or organization.  I have no affiliation with no person or organization.  I love my independence and anonymity. 

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13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think their taxes show that they did receive some funding from More Good ($120,000?) last year, which they used to hire a bookkeeper (again, if I'm remembering correctly).  I don't think that would equate to FM being supported by the church though. 

It looks like Mormon Stories brings in more money than FM.

It doesn't look like it's really the church vs. exmos with this issue, but FM verses Mormon Stories.  And if the two aren't equal then it's probably skewed in MS's favor if we are going off of finances. 

It's more than that. The church supporting FAIR lends it its own credibility. The funding is a concrete example of support, but far from the only kind. 

Edited by Meadowchik
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Just now, Nemesis said:

This board is strictly privately funded by myself.  I do not accept donations of any kind from any  persons or organization.  I have no affiliation with no person or organization.  I love my independence and anonymity. 

I was not speaking about this board, I was referring to the thread topic.

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5 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It's more than that. The church supporting FAIR lends it its own credibility. The funding is a concrete example of support, but far from the only kind. 

How does the church actually support FAIR other than that one donation through More Good?  What other kinds of support are you referring to?

Edited by bluebell
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6 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It's more than that. The church supporting FAIR is lends it its own credibility. The funding is a concrete example of support, but far from the only kind. 

They don’t have to fund us to do that.  They direct people to our work/website in their official publications for answers. You don’t have to go through tax files to find that out.

Is that really surprising anyone?

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Just now, bluebell said:

How does the church actually support FAIR other than through More Good?  What other kinds of support are you referring to?

 

4 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It's more than that. The church supporting FAIR lends it its own credibility. The funding is a concrete example of support, but far from the only kind. 

It's something any very authoritarian institution must watch out for. When it lends credibility to other groups, any foolishness among them can easily be construed as approved and condoned and, in worse-case scenarios, as instructions. 

That's why this incident concerns me. It's not happening in a vacuum. There is also DezNat carrying on with its garbage, representing a troubling trend of radicalization. These types of things must be carefully tended to before they worsen. 

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16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think their taxes show that they did receive some funding from More Good ($120,000?) last year, which they used to hire a bookkeeper (again, if I'm remembering correctly).  I don't think that would equate to FM being supported by the church though. 

It looks like Mormon Stories brings in more money than FM.

It doesn't look like it's really the church vs. exmos with this issue, but FM verses Mormon Stories.  And if the two aren't equal then it's probably skewed in MS's favor if we are going off of finances. 

Applying Mr. Dehlin's reasoning, Mormon Stories is now culpable for the misconduct of anyone remotely associated with it or with John Dehlin.

Example:

Mike Norton has repeatedly trespassed onto the Church's properties, invaded its temples, etc.  And what about McKenna Denson?  He told her that if she were in the room he would "break her f******g nose" and then published that threat on YouTube. 

John Dehlin interviewed Mike Norton in October 2017.  John Dehlin used Mike Norton to create content for Mormon Stories.

Res ipsa loquitur.  The thing speaks for itself.  John Dehlin and MormonStories are guilty - by association - of threats of physical violence against a woman.

I guess that's how things work now.

Thanks,

-Smac

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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

They don’t have to fund us to do that.  They direct people to our work/website in their official publications for answers. You don’t have to go through tax files to find that out.

Is that really surprising anyone?

Right. It is a very clearly-connected relationship.

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Just now, smac97 said:

Applying Mr. Dehlin's reasoning, Mormon Stories is now culpable for the misconduct of anyone remotely associated with it or with John Dehlin.

Example:

Mike Norton has repeatedly trespassed onto the Church's properties, invaded its temples, etc.  And what about McKenna Denson?  He told her that if she were in the room he would "break her f******g nose" and then published that threat on YouTube. 

John Dehlin interviewed Mike Norton in October 2017.  John Dehlin used Mike Norton to create content for Mormon Stories.

Res ipsa loquitur.  The thing speaks for itself.  John Dehlin and MormonStories are guilty - by association - of threats of physical violence against a woman.

I guess that's how things work now.

Thanks,

-Smac

I can't disagree with you there. Inasmuch as Mormon Stories amplifies Mike Norton, they become party to any violence he incites.

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1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

Church assets support the More Good Foundation which supports FAIR. That is my understanding.

 

Really. FM has been functioning for over 20 years. How many of those years have they gotten that money? How much money has FM needed for all those years?

You have no idea what you are talking about. CFR. 

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So is the reasoning here that anything the Church gives donations to, it condones whatever that organization does?  Or are there other qualifications?

For example, the Church gave money to a Utah Pride Center, whose projects include giving out safe sex kits to gay teens.

https://www.businessinsider.com/r-mormon-church-makes-first-donation-to-utah-gay-youth-program-2015-7

Edited by Calm
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2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

 

It's something any very authoritarian institution must watch out for. When it lends credibility to other groups, any foolishness among them can easily be construed as approved and condoned and, in worse-case scenarios, as instructions. 

That's why this incident concerns me. It's not happening in a vacuum. There is also DezNat carrying on with its garbage, representing a troubling trend of radicalization. These types of things must be carefully tended to before they worsen. 

I would think that the bold above applies to any group, very authoritarian or not.  We are seeing it in this thread with FM and their use of Kwaku.  FM could never be described as authoritarian (let alone very) but they are dealing with the fall out of lending their credibility to others who have made questionable decisions.  

Again though, other than that one contribution through a different part, what the other ways that the church supports FM?  You said that the support goes far beyond that contribution so providing specific instances shouldn't be hard.  

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2 minutes ago, juliann said:

Really. FM has been functioning for over 20 years. How many of those years have they gotten that money? How much money has FM needed for all those years?

You have no idea what you are talking about. CFR. 

 

21 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm open to correction and I apologize if what I said is inaccurate. But I think there is enough evidence for what I said:

From the More Good Foundation's 2019 taxes:

image.png.380fd7ef4fc6c5613e23936d6638fa8d.png

LINK

And From the More Good Foundation's Website:

image.png.865861ff30ae91789777c66d8333cb27.png

 

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21 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm open to correction and I apologize if what I said is inaccurate. But I think there is enough evidence for what I said:

From the More Good Foundation's 2019 taxes:

image.png.380fd7ef4fc6c5613e23936d6638fa8d.png

LINK

And From the More Good Foundation's Website:

image.png.865861ff30ae91789777c66d8333cb27.png

There was also a small donation in the earlier years when I was there. Now explain how FM survived the other 18 or so years. 
 

Then tell us how many other entities have been assisted by MoreGood and why it matters. 

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13 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Right. It is a very clearly-connected relationship.

They love us and we love them. I get that. 
 

But that doesn’t mean they are directing what we are doing, vetting it, or much of anything beyond thanking us from time to time as well as using us as a reference when appropriate. 
 

Now are they going to be sending kids to look at the This Show videos when they become aware of them?  I kind of doubt it.  Hopefully the next versions we will have learned better what not only gets attention , but gets the right type in the right way to maximize learning so everyone will feel they are safe to share.
 

If we never try anything new, we will never find what works best. But trying new things comes with risks. As long as we learn from our mistakes, in the long run it should be worth it. 

Edited by Calm
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6 minutes ago, juliann said:

was also a small donation in the earlier years w

Under $2000 if I recall around 15 years ago. 

Edited by Calm
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21 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:
22 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

This board is strictly privately funded by myself.  I do not accept donations of any kind from any  persons or organization.  I have no affiliation with no person or organization.  I love my independence and anonymity. 

I was not speaking about this board, I was referring to the thread topic.

I think Nemesis was trying to be funny. I don't think it costs anything to run this board except his time.

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1 minute ago, bluebell said:

I would think that the bold above applies to any group, very authoritarian or not.  We are seeing it in this thread with FM and their use of Kwaku.  FM could never be described as authoritarian (let alone very) but they are dealing with the fall out of lending their credibility to others who have made questionable decisions.  

Again though, other than that one contribution through a different part, what the other ways that the church supports FM?  You said that the support goes far beyond that contribution so providing specific instances shouldn't be hard.  

I answered you in the original post, I pointed you to that when you asked again, 

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73335-fair-mormons-new-youtube-branding-strategy/?do=findComment&comment=1210004097

and by the way Calm also reiterated my point herself.

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

They don’t have to fund us to do that.  They direct people to our work/website in their official publications for answers. You don’t have to go through tax files to find that out.

Is that really surprising anyone?

If you follow my comments since entered the topic, I am talking about the church as the authoritarian institution:

There is a fundamental difference between what flows from a center of religious-social-political power and what flows from those who resist it. 

Any church-supported influencer merits more scrutiny because of that, simply because of the innate power of the church.

Please don't forget that church versus exmos are not equivalent opposing forces.

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5 minutes ago, juliann said:

There was also a small donation in the earlier years when I was there. Now explain how FM survived the other 18 or so years. 
 

Then tell us how many other entities have been assisted by MoreGood and why it matters. 

I think my above comment helps give a bit more context to my point, Juliann. 

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