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Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy


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2 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think Nemesis was trying to be funny. I don't think it costs anything to run this board except his time.

Well, with a name like "Nemesis" it might be hard to read the humor ;)

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While the Church promotes FairMormon to Seminary and Institute teachers as a resource "intended to help teachers in their own study and in their efforts to guide students in finding accurate and faithful answers to their questions," they also emphasize that they "do not endorse or guarantee the content, products, or services offered."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/si/questions/gospel-study-resources?lang=eng

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3 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

There is a fundamental difference between what flows from a center of religious-social-political power and what flows from those who resist it. 

Any church-supported influencer merits more scrutiny because of that, simply because of the innate power of the church.

Please don't forget that church versus exmos are not equivalent opposing forces.

 

If only FM and a few college kids were "the church." What a ridiculous comparison. 

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7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:
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Applying Mr. Dehlin's reasoning, Mormon Stories is now culpable for the misconduct of anyone remotely associated with it or with John Dehlin.

Example:

Mike Norton has repeatedly trespassed onto the Church's properties, invaded its temples, etc.  And what about McKenna Denson?  He told her that if she were in the room he would "break her f******g nose" and then published that threat on YouTube. 

John Dehlin interviewed Mike Norton in October 2017.  John Dehlin used Mike Norton to create content for Mormon Stories.

Res ipsa loquitur.  The thing speaks for itself.  John Dehlin and MormonStories are guilty - by association - of threats of physical violence against a woman.

I guess that's how things work now.

I can't disagree with you there. Inasmuch as Mormon Stories amplifies Mike Norton, they become party to any violence he incites.

Really?  How far does this principle go?  What if Mike Norton causes a car accident?  Is John Dehlin responsible for that too?

What about you?  Do you apply this reasoning to others?

  • 1. Tom Kimball apparently committed sexual abuse.
  • 2. Tom Kimball was friends with Lindsay Hansen Park.
  • 3. Lindsay Hansen Park is therefore culpable - by association - for the sexual abuse committed by Tom Kimball.

Man, we could do this all day...

Thanks,

-Smac

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3 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think Nemesis was trying to be funny. I don't think it costs anything to run this board except his time.

I would be surprised if it doesn’t. While in the past some offered free services for message boards, there was always advertising on it to cover the cost of the service. And then we had to pay for any extra bells or whistles and the basic was very basic. 

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1 minute ago, Nevo said:

While the Church promotes FairMormon to Seminary and Institute teachers as a resource "intended to help teachers in their own study and in their efforts to guide students in finding accurate and faithful answers to their questions," they also emphasize that they "do not endorse or guarantee the content, products, or services offered."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/si/questions/gospel-study-resources?lang=eng

Thank you for posting that. 

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5 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I answered you in the original post, I pointed you to that when you asked again, 

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73335-fair-mormons-new-youtube-branding-strategy/?do=findComment&comment=1210004097

and by the way Calm also reiterated my point herself.

If you follow my comments since entered the topic, I am talking about the church as the authoritarian institution:

There is a fundamental difference between what flows from a center of religious-social-political power and what flows from those who resist it. 

Any church-supported influencer merits more scrutiny because of that, simply because of the innate power of the church.

Please don't forget that church versus exmos are not equivalent opposing forces.

You are speaking to a founder of FM. I funded it and owned it the first 3 years. FM has scrapped along the entire time I was there. Booksales and small donations were our support. I'm glad to see that they did finally get a big donation. Good for them. 

And nice try, but one more time, this is about Dehlin and FM, not "the church." 

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6 minutes ago, juliann said:

If only FM and a few college kids were "the church." What a ridiculous comparison. 

If only the FM youtubers were only just some random college kids. Really. I wish that were the case.

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1 minute ago, juliann said:

You are speaking to a founder of FM. I funded it and owned it the first 3 years. FM has scrapped along the entire time I was there. Booksales and small donations were our support. I'm glad to see that they did finally get a big donation. Good for them. 

And nice try, but one more time, this is about Dehlin and FM, not "the church." 

I disagree. I explained how this connects to the church and it is imo quite important.

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11 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

the way Calm also reiterated my point herself.

You made multiple points. My only reiteration was the Church uses us as a resource at times, but (see Nevo’s post) there are a lot of qualifications involved. It isn’t automatic or wholesale. 

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3 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

There is a fundamental difference between what flows from a center of religious-social-political power and what flows from those who resist it. 

Any church-supported influencer merits more scrutiny because of that, simply because of the innate power of the church.

Please don't forget that church versus exmos are not equivalent opposing forces.

This is a really really bad take.

So members of the Church whom have been harmed by John Dehlin are operating from "religous-social-political power?"  Maybe they just don't like that JD is a complete tool.  He has destroyed countless marriages, been abusive to his own followers, supports wife-swapping and drug abuse, and I could go on and on.

People who spend their lives opposing the LDS Church need to get a grip, grow up, and move on.  JD is like a jilted ex-lover who is still hung-up on you 10 years later.  And if you do choose to throw crap at the LDS Church AND its members, you can't be surprised when some of those members decide to throw crap back.

Your suggestion that John Dehlin -- a man who pulls in a handsome 6 figure income from his hatred of Mormonism -- is somehow a victim of the LDS Church is absurd. 

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13 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I think Nemesis was trying to be funny. I don't think it costs anything to run this board except his time.

And my check book.  I think translation was lost between hers and bluebells post.

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8 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Well, with a name like "Nemesis" it might be hard to read the humor ;)

This board supports the church. Is it part of it's all powerful authoritarian machinary? 

Nemesis has been amazing, BTW. Maybe the software is free now but it didn't use to be and Nemesis has always refused to take donations (he took over the board after FM dropped it) That adds up over the years. Nemesis singlehandedly keeps this board going so people can come in and publish uninformed claims. 

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2 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

supports wife-swapping and drug abuse,

This happened at his conferences from what has been reported. It doesn’t mean he supports them. Iirc, he stopped holding them for a short time out of concern. 

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8 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Really?  How far does this principle go?  What if Mike Norton causes a car accident?  Is John Dehlin responsible for that too?

What about you?  Do you apply this reasoning to others?

  • 1. Tom Kimball apparently committed sexual abuse.
  • 2. Tom Kimball was friends with Lindsay Hansen Park.
  • 3. Lindsay Hansen Park is therefore culpable - by association - for the sexual abuse committed by Tom Kimball.

Man, we could do this all day...

Thanks,

-Smac

(1) The church helps support organisations which amplify people inciting violence and (2)Mormon Stories, inasmuch as it hosts Mike Norton, amplifies his violent rhetoric are specific, clearly connected situations.

If LHP aided or hid abuse by Tom Kimball, she did something wrong. As far as I know, she did neither. 

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Reading through this thread, I'm glad I haven't checked out those videos. Other than here, the only thing I've heard about them is a surprisingly large number of active LDS friends who are denouncing the videos. I've never been a huge fan of the CES letter, but I'm thinking this approach to it is counterproductive.

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

You made multiple points. My only reiteration was the Church uses us as a resource at times, but (see Nevo’s post) there are a lot of qualifications involved. It isn’t automatic or wholesale. 

Yup. You, intentionally or not, showed how the church supports FAIR my lending it credibility.

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5 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I disagree. I explained how this connects to the church and it is imo quite important.

No you haven't. You have made unsupported assertions based on one donation that you are determined to give existential meaning to. 

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6 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

This is a really really bad take.

So members of the Church whom have been harmed by John Dehlin are operating from "religous-social-political power?"  Maybe they just don't like that JD is a complete tool.  He has destroyed countless marriages, been abusive to his own followers, supports wife-swapping and drug abuse, and I could go on and on.

People who spend their lives opposing the LDS Church need to get a grip, grow up, and move on.  JD is like a jilted ex-lover who is still hung-up on you 10 years later.  And if you do choose to throw crap at the LDS Church AND its members, you can't be surprised when some of those members decide to throw crap back.

Your suggestion that John Dehlin -- a man who pulls in a handsome 6 figure income from his hatred of Mormonism -- is somehow a victim of the LDS Church is absurd. 

I think you are underestimating the power and influence of the LDS church.

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1 minute ago, juliann said:

No you haven't. You have made unsupported assertions based on one donation that you are determined to give existential meaning to. 

I supported my claims. Others agreed with my overall point. It's not rocket science: the church supports FAIR. It lends FAIR credibility. That means that church followers can be more easily swayed by voices they believe are condoned by the church. And this is a problem. 

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6 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I think you are underestimating the power and influence of the LDS church.

Do you also believe in the Illuminati and hellfire clubs influence over the world?  
 

If the church had so much influence how is this board even still around.  For years I’ve been told it’s the reason for some persons apostasy.
 

Nemesis

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2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Yup. You, intentionally or not, showed how the church supports FAIR my lending it credibility.

We are still back to so what. The church supported my nonmember neighbor for awhile, too. If I was being accurate, it was the local ward members but who cares about details.

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In other words, Juliann, please do what you can to nip this nonsense in the bud. Don't let your years of contributions be spoiled by a "few college kids."

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2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I supported my claims. Others agreed with my overall point. It's not rocket science: the church supports FAIR. It lends FAIR credibility. That means that church followers can be more easily swayed by voices they believe are condoned by the church. And this is a problem. 

This is a problem? LOL  

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