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Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy


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9 minutes ago, juliann said:

Oh for heaven's sake. Are you really that desperate to defame FM? Now you are getting into libel. How do you think you would do in court trying to make a connection between a personal tweet and FM? Any better than the Tanners? 

Those types of trends genuinely concern me.

 

10 minutes ago, juliann said:

One more time, Meadowchick, Isn't DezNat racist? Why didn't you answer that?

Yes, and Seriac seems to be heavily associated with them, right? 

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1 minute ago, Nemesis said:

I’m glad you took this in jest.  
 

This whole thing is way blown out of proportion and filled with Dehlin drama.  All because he got bent out of shape for the satan picture with this face on it.  
 

They other stuff I’ll defer to the pinned post on the front page of this folder. 
 

Nemesis

As I said, I couldn't care less about John Dehlin. I didn't even realize RFM was associated with him until someone pointed it out this morning. I had fun doing that interview. I like consig, and he's been a good friend to me over the years. 

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5 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

We had some really great friends, also church members, who helped us through our ordeal. One of my memories of their help was the topic of my most recent thread here in fact. "When the Friend of My Enemy is My Friend."

By the way, I was talking about the FM thread with my son this evening and told him I really believe the good faith discourse about the church between believers and nonbelievers can be productive. 

I am committed to steering towards wherever I might have influence. I think we can be true allies in that sense.

 

But here is where my frustration is....FM and other organized pro Mormon groups have made a very good faith effort to be more understanding and supportive.  Even the church is teaching that leave takers are to be treated with kindness and empathy.

I am not seeing similar movement from our detractors' sites. It is business as usual. The same misinformation and derision. All the while demanding perfect behavior from those they ridicule. 

 

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3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I'll check it out, though my opinion is hardly worth a warm bucket of spit. I don't spend a lot of time on Mormon issues anymore. Don't remember what spurred me to read this thread. I guess I'm just getting old. We've had a very stressful couple of months in our family, so this kind of thing takes a back seat. Things are looking up, as my granddaughter seems to be recovering nicely. But long term, we don't know.

Sorry to hear that.

I'm in a similar boat of maybe being too stressed to have ventured into this thread. But it's just exams and stuff, and a mind cannot do studying all day.

Best wishes to your granddaughter and you all.

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2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Those types of trends genuinely concern me.

 

Yes, and Seriac seems to be heavily associated with them, right? 

You are still dodging. Isn't DezNat supposed to be racist?

Am I to assume you think it is ethical to attempt to tie FM to something like DezNat?

And I have no idea who this Seriac is. 

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Just now, Meadowchik said:

Sorry to hear that.

I'm in a similar boat of maybe being too stressed to have ventured into this thread. But it's just exams and stuff, and a mind cannot do studying all day.

Best wishes to your granddaughter and you all.

Good luck with the exams. She's doing much better, though we almost lost her. Like I said, life gets too stressful.

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Just now, juliann said:

You are still dodging. Isn't DezNat supposed to be racist?

Am I to assume you think it is ethical to attempt to tie FM to something like DezNat?

And I have no idea who this Seriac is. 

I said yes. That's a direct answer to your question.

Hannah Seriac is a blogger for Fair Mormon.https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/author/hseariac

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35 minutes ago, juliann said:

But here is where my frustration is....FM and other organized pro Mormon groups have made a very good faith effort to be more understanding and supportive.  Even the church is teaching that leave takers are to be treated with kindness and empathy.

I am not seeing similar movement from our detractors' sites. It is business as usual. The same misinformation and derision. All the while demanding perfect behavior from those they ridicule. 

 

Since you are thinking about double standards, may I point out that you are painting "detractors' sites" with a pretty broad brush? You seem quite sure about their moral failings, despite having a "much more limited exposure to anti/critic sites."

In contrast, you claim that "FM and other organized pro Mormon groups have made a very good faith effort to be more understanding and supportive." You claim this is true despite the new T.S. videos being absolutely brimming with mocking, derision, and disinformation. To be clear about where I'm coming from, if you think the T.S. videos are an expression of your values and represent both the tone and message of what apologetics is supposed to be about, then that is great. You be you. Just don't claim that you are all in favor of being understanding and supportive and are against misinformation and derision. I don't see it--especially not in these new videos.

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50 minutes ago, juliann said:

They are of very mixed quality. They may take them down and it's all gone tomorrow.  

Knowing Scott Gordon and John Lynch, I expect them to condemn and distance FAIR from what needs to be condemned and distanced. More important, long-term: I think this was a shot across the bow as far as this experiment with "bruh" -style videos intended to appeal to Gen Zers. Not that diversifying the portfolio in favor of youth is a bad thing, in and of itself, but class and decorum remain important to the overwhelming majority of FAIR's current and potential audience. Even among most Gen Zers. I think FAIR is going to be more careful with things they commission or partner with in the future, so this was a good learning experience. 

As a school teacher and "apologist in private practice," :) I'm interested in seeing Kwaku's long-term trajectory. His social media celebrity and hijinks make me think that, like his generation, he might have a short attention span and shelf life (and will therefore do things to try to "stay relevant" with the Tik Tok youth). I think this doesn't bode well for those who want good material with class and decorum, but I welcome the chance that I will be proved wrong. I think, personally, that he will get bored with what he's doing now and move on to something else. I think he has a high probability (but not definite) and risk of turning against the Church when his star fades (a la Richard Dutcher). This is all my opinion, of course, and time will tell. I hope not. I hope he uses his skill and talent to do good things. 

I look forward to FAIR's official response and actions with all of this, which I think (hope) will happen very soon. 

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22 minutes ago, juliann said:

So why is DezNat involved with a Black man if they are racists? 

That is a link to a podcast about Greek and Syriac. ?? Is DezNat into dead languages, too?

He apparently did flirt with DezNat for awhile some years ago but ran afoul of the racism there.

 

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46 minutes ago, Analytics said:

Since you are thinking about double standards, may I point out that you are painting "detractors' sites" with a pretty broad brush? You seem quite sure about their moral failings, despite having a "much more limited exposure to anti/critic sites."

In contrast, you claim that "FM and other organized pro Mormon groups have made a very good faith effort to be more understanding and supportive." You claim this is true despite the new T.S. videos being absolutely brimming with mocking, derision, and disinformation. To be clear about where I'm coming from, if you think the T.S. videos are an expression of your values and represent both the tone and message of what apologetics is supposed to be about, then that is great. You be you. Just don't claim that you are all in favor of being understanding and supportive and are against misinformation and derision. I don't see it--especially not in these new videos.

I have probably expressed my dislike of those videos...what, 5, 6, 7 times? I think one showed promise.  I will put this on the board nanny thread so I can just link to it in your next attempt. OK, done! Here you go! 

 

Back to real life, are you denying that pro-Mormon groups have not made an effort to be more understanding of doubters? 

Edited by juliann
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15 minutes ago, rongo said:

Knowing Scott Gordon and John Lynch, I expect them to condemn and distance FAIR from what needs to be condemned and distanced. More important, long-term: I think this was a shot across the bow as far as this experiment with "bruh" -style videos intended to appeal to Gen Zers. Not that diversifying the portfolio in favor of youth is a bad thing, in and of itself, but class and decorum remain important to the overwhelming majority of FAIR's current and potential audience. Even among most Gen Zers. I think FAIR is going to be more careful with things they commission or partner with in the future, so this was a good learning experience. 

As a school teacher and "apologist in private practice," :) I'm interested in seeing Kwaku's long-term trajectory. His social media celebrity and hijinks make me think that, like his generation, he might have a short attention span and shelf life (and will therefore do things to try to "stay relevant" with the Tik Tok youth). I think this doesn't bode well for those who want good material with class and decorum, but I welcome the chance that I will be proved wrong. I think, personally, that he will get bored with what he's doing now and move on to something else. I think he has a high probability (but not definite) and risk of turning against the Church when his star fades (a la Richard Dutcher). This is all my opinion, of course, and time will tell. I hope not. I hope he uses his skill and talent to do good things. 

I look forward to FAIR's official response and actions with all of this, which I think (hope) will happen very soon. 

I hope this turns into a good learning experience for him and I hope he takes it in stride, makes corrections, and goes on to use his talent (and frankly, cuteness) in future endeavors. I still don't like the optics of church members throwing away aspiring Black members because of online scuffles.

To elaborate, what makes this even more insidious is reading Kate Kelly's denunciation of Dehlin and then seeing sympathy and support for him as these youngsters are pilloried. 

Edited by juliann
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14 minutes ago, Nofear said:

He apparently did flirt with DezNat for awhile some years ago but ran afoul of the racism there.

 

But we are being fed the narrative that a racist group supports a Black man and he supports them. That is despicable. 

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On 12/3/2020 at 8:12 PM, Tacenda said:

Did anyone catch this youtube, for a split second they put John Dehlin in to look like this, whoa!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLer7fwmwI0&feature=youtu.be It's at the 3:43 mark.

 

 

r/exmormon - Cults come after their critics.  What can I say?  Source: Recent video from Mormon church-sponsored FAIRmormon.  Minute mark 3:43.

 

I'm offended because it isn't nearly as scholarly as "METCALFE IS BUTTHEAD".  Go acrostic or go home!

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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A brief interlude for something that matters, from a FB group I helped after leaving FM. You will not find a more affirming and loving group who will not countenance any negativity toward those strugging with their belief.  

 

Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6 PM MST – 7:15 PM MST
 
Public · Hosted by Uplift Community of Faith
 
Online with Facebook Live
 
A conversation with Fiona Givens over the important Christmas message of Christ and her new book that was co-authored with her husband, Terryl Givens. The title of the book is "All Things New: Rethinking Sin, Salvation, and Everything in Between" 
 
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2 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

That civil case concerned the tenant refusing to pay utilities. The stake president refused to give us our temple recommends and wanted us to drop the case. If I remember correctly though the bishop helped to resolve that one and the SP later apologized. The tenant had lots of mental issues and applied alot of pressure over many months to local leaders, so I can understand the SP's frustrated reaction even though it was wrong. 

So anyway, the case was dropped voluntarily, thanks to the bishop's help. 

Thank you. What do you see as the parallels between your experience and how "The Church" might interfere with potential proceedings taking place in consequence of the current kerfuffle? Do you see it as local leaders putting personal / ethical / moral pressure on the litigants, or as more of a corporate level financial / legal pressure?

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Came to this thread just today.  Watched a few of these videos.  Random comments in no order:

- This is a generation thing.  Boomers/GenX, meet millennials.  This is how they talk and think.  It's the smart phone generation, brains matured and neuro pathways formed by being online 12 hours a day.  This is how the TikTok generation grapples with eternal truths.  

- There is a concern about people falling in love with these dudes personality, instead of falling in love with Christ and the restored gospel.  This is not a new thing though - we've always been falling in love with this or that church personality, or perceived calling career path.  Snark, mocking sarcasm, and meta-humor may turn many folks off, but they're spitting out soundbytes based on sound argument and relevant information.  

- I don't care if LDS group X funds random personality Y to produce things to reach out to some target audience.  I don't care if they do it in a way that doesn't appeal to other audiences.  

- People looking for someone to blame, should blame the church.  This was inevitable once the brethren released mormons.org, and invited any member from all age groups and all levels of gospel maturity, to create an account and show the world what Mormons look like.  You lost the battle before the first dude with a piercing and lady with a tattoo showed up.

- No really, this is set to appeal to a very specific demographic.  You have decent odds of your kids or grandkids not falling into the intended audience.  But if they do, then you should point 'em towards these videos.

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Oh - also - a note on lightheartedness vs. lightmindedness.

Lightmindedness is mocking sacred things of God.  It's a sin, and a big no-no.  It is a way to lie to yourself about truth.  No good ever came from lightmindedness, and an awful lot of harm comes from it.  

Lightheartedness, however, is different.  It's a critical coping mechanism for many emotionally healthy and mature humans, trying to get by in a fallen world.   Many of us need our levity re-leavened on occasion.  Lightheartedness is one of a few ways to experience a measure of joy.  It's appropriate when on our knees, when in the temple, at church, or any worldly situation in which we find ourselves.   You may not be able to be the picture of reverence when being lighthearted, but then Christ said to be as little children.  He didn't say to be as little children who were being forced to fold their arms and close their eyes by stern authority figures.   I mean, I guess you can find children with no sense of humor, but usually it's because they've got anxiety or fear or doubt or peer pressure squeezing it out of them.   These babies are not sinning.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okGsf4cNZNQ

See Hugh Nibley for more. https://www.ldsliving.com/What-Does-It-Really-Mean-to-Avoid-Light-Mindedness-and-Loud-Laughter/s/90087

 

We try to make righteous judgments, and try to spot lightmindedness, so we can avoid it.  I'm thinking 98% of these youtube videos are simple lightheartedness, mixed with an awful lot of good research and relevant apologetics.

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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2 hours ago, juliann said:

I have probably expressed my dislike of those videos...what, 5, 6, 7 times? I think one showed promise.  I will put this on the board nanny thread so I can just link to it in your next attempt. OK, done! Here you go! 

Two points. First, when I was questioning your statement that, "FM and other organized pro Mormon groups have made a very good faith effort to be more understanding and supportive," my point wasn't to say that you, personally, were okay with the videos. Nor was it to condemn you if you were. I simply meant that FM wasn't being that great in their effort to be more understanding and supportive. If it was a true, "very good faith effort" they wouldn't have published these videos. I recognize that you, personally, disapprove of the videos. That is great. But I'm not being a "board nanny" or an apologists-etiquette nanny either. As I said, if FM thinks these videos are an expression of their values and represent both the tone and message of what apologetics is supposed to be about, then that is great. They should speak their truth. I sincerely try to hold critics to the same standard.

Second, just as there are faithful Saints such as yourself that disapprove of these FM videos, there are critics who disapprove of various antics of, say, John Dehlin. Since you are the one being a nanny of the critics and accusing them (us?) of being hypocrites, feel free to present a specific example of a critic who has made a disgusting, violent video that shows, say, President Nelson represented as a Nazi and shows, say, RFM murdering him with a baseball bat. Find that video or something commensurate, pin in to the top of this board, and give the critics an opportunity to officially denounce it. When you then find specific critics who approve of the video of exMormons murdering President Nelson but disapprove of the video of FM murdering John Dehlin, you will have your evidence of hypocrisy. 

 

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Back to real life, are you denying that pro-Mormon groups have not made an effort to be more understanding of doubters? 

I have no idea. I haven't measured how "understanding of doubters" pro-Mormon groups are over the years. Likewise, I haven't measured how sinister groups of critics are, either. I tend to look at people as individuals, not groups. I just think that you might try to be more self-aware when you use these videos published by FM (plus the video published by an FM/T.S. fan) as evidence of how hypocritical critics are as a group.

Edited by Analytics
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Smac, it would probably be wise to remove Braden’s last name or just call him the originator so as to lower at least a little him being targeted...though this is not likely the forum that people who make death threats hang out on and unfortunately his name is elsewhere.  I hadn’t thought of that before Nevo mentioning it, but knowing what has happened to other people Dehlin has made targets of, best to be cautious. (Not saying this kid didn’t deserve being called out for something inappropriate, just think harassment is never right.)

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