Covid: Trump, the Nation, and Anything

[The Nehor]

 

34 minutes ago, pogi said:

CDC guidelines are that isolation will be for 10 days minimum from symptom onset. Infectious period is considered to begin 48 hours before symptom onset.  Anyone in close contact with him in that time period should be quarantined for 2 weeks from last contact.  

So, if his symptoms started on Wednesday at the earliest, then his minimum isolation period will be through Saturday, Oct. 10.  The 11th will be the first day off isolation if his symptoms are resolved.  However, he needs 24 hours of symptom recovery before he can end isolation, so it could potentially be longer then 10 days - that is just a minimum.  Just a heads up for people to know what to expect.

When is the next debate scheduled?  Will he be in isolation?

The next debate is the VP debate on the 7th. The next Presidential one is scheduled to be a town hall meeting on the 15th so he could be in the clear if he recovers. He has a number of co-morbidities though that lessen his chances of this being quick. He is obese, not physically active, elderly, and is low-income.

Edited October 3, 2020 by The Nehor

[pogi]

40 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

and is low-income.

😂

[Rain]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

CDC guidelines are that isolation will be for 10 days minimum from symptom onset. Infectious period is considered to begin 48 hours before symptom onset.  Anyone in close contact with him in that time period should be quarantined for 2 weeks from last contact.  

So, if his symptoms started on Wednesday at the earliest, then his minimum isolation period will be through Saturday, Oct. 10.  The 11th will be the first day off isolation if his symptoms are resolved.  However, he needs 24 hours of symptom recovery before he can end isolation, so it could potentially be longer then 10 days - that is just a minimum.  Just a heads up for people to know what to expect.

When is the next debate scheduled?  Will he be in isolation?

 

[bsjkki]

 

[mrmarklin]

Good luck to President Trump.🙂

[Calm]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That is what I get for sleeping only 2 hours last night. Sorry.

Been there, done that...

[Calm]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

Are you talking about people they had contact with before they knew they were positive?  No, it is not required but highly encouraged.  

I am thinking mainly about getting called by contact tracers trying to find the origin of a spreading event.  Say several people report they had contact with Harold five days ago.  Harold didn't know he was infected until yesterday.  The tracer calls him and asks if he has had symptoms and/or been tested and if the latter, was it positive.  Can Harold refuse to tell the tracer because he believes his medical info should be confidential?

Or does he have to report he has it and then help with tracing?  

If he lied about having it but stayed self quarantined as soon as he found out he did though without telling anyone, would he get in trouble if it was found out he knew afterwards he had likely infected people and didn't report it when asked?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, mrmarklin said:

Good luck to President Trump.🙂

And to everyone around him....got to wonder how big this is going to be.

[Calm]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/here-s-what-s-known-about-president-trump-s-covid-19-treatment

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/how-might-president-donald-trump-be-treated-covid-19

Edited October 3, 2020 by Calm

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Jenkins, the president of Notre Dame who has tested positive, reports he was given a rapid test when he arrived at the WH and was then told he could remove his mask..  Mike Lee was also there unmasked and hugging people at event (I like friendly people, but really?!  Jenkins got tested due to a colleague being sick.  If he was the source of the spread (assuming that event was the exposure...), he has some major egg on his face since he has been threatening to send students home for not wearing masks and social distancing.

I am really curious now about if there is one spreader or several for the cases popping up.

Again from the NYT, the rapid testing system used by the WH is meant to test people who have symptoms.  It is good for then determining if they have it or not.  However, if they don't have symptoms, it may miss as many as 1/3 of the cases.  

To then tell people that it was alright to take off their masks at the gathering was idiotic and verges on criminal to me given people have died from this disease and many are suffering chronic illnesses now.

All of these people who have tested positive were at the Rose Garden meeting.  No masks, no social distancing.

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

All of these people who have tested positive were at the Rose Garden meeting.  No masks, no social distancing.

I was wondering.

How many have to get infected to qualify as a superspreader event?

I am reading 10 or more, but none were medical sites.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Calm

[Kenngo1969]

A lot of the comments here are reading like schadenfreude, but maybe that's just me.  (I'm not really an apologist for the current POTUS, but there is a lot of really blatant, unmistakable schadenfreude out there about his diagnosis right now, so perhaps I'm simply sensitive to it.)

P.S.: I think it's funny/strange/hypocritical how nobody ever talks about a riot being a superspreader event.  After all, with this president in office?  Rioting is a patriotic duty!   (Is BLM gonna stand down once Joe's elected?)

P.P.S.:  Who knows if the "dimensions" I got back are accurate, but it is interesting to Google "Trump height weight."  If Mr. Trump is obese, then I should've died 20 years ago.    

Edited October 3, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

... added:  New York Times reports Trump appeared lethargic at fundraiser....I think Nehor mentioned it.  But he was traveling lots in the previous 2 days, so that could have been the issue.

No, I'm sure it was definitely COVID-19.  C'mon!  Isn't everybody?   

To all the Trump haters out there, I don't know what you're worried about.  Your guy is going to win the election.  I have my problems with Mr. Trump, but good luck ... to all of us ... once he does! 

[bsjkki]

Interesting timeline. Senator Johndon is positive. 

He quarantined September 14 due to exposure.

Tested negative twice. 

Came back to DC the 29th. Was exposed to someone who has since tested positive. He is now positive.

2-3 day incubation? It’s fast.

https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/status/1312377670685122561?s=20

Read the whole thread.

[CV75]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

I was wondering.

How many have to get infected to qualify as a superspreader event?

I am reading 10 or more, but none were medical sites.

At my dojo, only 5:

[bsjkki]

Most people I know who have gotten covid, can’t pinpoint their exposure point.

My nephew got it at college...even though they tested everyone on arrival. His roommate brought it home.

My mother in laws friends who died...one got it in their nursing home. The other, they didn’t know. They only left the house for groceries and wore masks. 

My husbands employee...no idea. Wore masks everywhere. 

My husbands co-workers...maybe a bar.

My husbands partners father who died. Nursing home in New York. 

My friend who got really sick and is not recovered. Early exposure last March. His wife is fine now...he was hospitalized and his lung capacity is still shot. No idea where they got it. One of the first cases in Colorado.

My daughter in laws best friend’s grandfather who died? No idea. In Michigan.

My brothers employee and two friends...no idea.

And for all those who think this should shut down the Senate and House and DC in general, I hope you realize how elitists that sounds. 

If my autistic daughter can work at the grocery store doing maintenance this entire time, the House and Senate can figure it out. 

This is only a partial list of the known cases I’m aware of. I don’t blame them for getting sick. Is this really the message you want to send? It’s your fault if you get sick? 

One more. My nephew whose wife is ocd. They don’t grocery shop...have groceries delivered and wipe them down with Clorox wipes...I mean, extreme measures. They see no one.  Did not attend his grandmothers funeral due to covid.  Got sick. My sister can’t even visit or hold her new grandson . 

His exposure point is known. He picked up a lap top for his new, work from home, job. The IT guy, tested positive. He wore his mask the whole time.

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

.S.: I think it's funny/strange/hypocritical how nobody ever talks about a riot being a superspreader event

Something is not a superspreader event unless there are known victims. Can you point to a riot where they have tracked 10 or more positive cases as likely stemming from it?

Were they able to track infections from any riot?  If not, even though one can warn of potential problems, they have no cases to conclusively discuss, they can only discuss possibilities...which I read a lot of concerns about, btw. 
 

Predicting possibilities without having actual victims to point to is very different than having people report they have tested positive, they were all attending the same event, and they were being inaccurately promises there was no risk if they tested negative with the WH system. 
 

I am not seeing the hypocrisy or strangeness in that.  It is built into the nature of the events where in one case people want to be seen, be identified as participating and in the other event, no identification is preferred in most cases.  
 

Now if there is a generic condemnation of all political gatherings based on what happened in this case while being dismissive of potential risks in a riot, that would be, imo, hypocritical...but I am not seeing that here or much of anywhere, though there are likely some.  

 

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

A lot of the comments here are reading like schadenfreude, but maybe that's just me.  (I'm not really an apologist for the current POTUS, but there is a lot of really blatant, unmistakable schadenfreude out there about his diagnosis right now, so perhaps I'm simply sensitive to it.)

P.S.: I think it's funny/strange/hypocritical how nobody ever talks about a riot being a superspreader event.  After all, with this president in office?  Rioting is a patriotic duty!   (Is BLM gonna stand down once Joe's elected?)

P.P.S.:  Who knows if the "dimensions" I got back are accurate, but it is interesting to Google "Trump height weight."  If Mr. Trump is obese, then I should've died 20 years ago.    

Obesity is more than height and weight, it is muscle to fat ratio as well, basically what percentage of your body mass is fat. Muscle weights more than fat, so greater weight is not always a bad thing. 

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, CV75 said:

At my dojo, only 5:

Who called it a superspreader event?

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is only a partial list of the known cases I’m aware of. I don’t blame them for getting sick. Is this really the message you want to send? It’s your fault if you get sick? 

I don’t blame those attending the party who were told they were safe after being tested. I blame those who caused that to happen, who didn’t pay attention to the FDA warning of what the test could and couldn’t do. 

[bsjkki]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t blame those attending the party who were told they were safe after being tested. I blame those who caused that to happen, who didn’t pay attention to the FDA warning of what the test could and couldn’t do. 

We need to cancel all sports then because they rely on the same test. 

[bsjkki]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t blame those attending the party who were told they were safe after being tested. I blame those who caused that to happen, who didn’t pay attention to the FDA warning of what the test could and couldn’t do. 

We need to cancel church too. No one is tested. The mask wearing practices are abysmal. (It was my entertainment last time I went to church.) Every other row is not six feet and indoor transmission of an airborne virus is not really limited to six feet. The outbreak studies prove this is not accurate. The only way to fully protect is to never leave your house.

I wear my mask but don’t like where this blame the victim game is headed. 

 

[Teancum]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

NYTimes says some thought the president sounded raspy Thursday night on a FOX interview, but looks like the official position is from Mark Meadows, who reported Trump was showing mild symptoms on Friday morning.

Still reading back in time....looks like 11 cases have been tied to the predebate planning and set-up, mostly out of staters.  I am wondering if that includes White House staff.  Was Mike Lee at the debate?

Looks like this mayy go back to the ROse Garden SC Nominee event. A bunch that attended that are testing positive including Kellyanne Conway.

[Duncan]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

A lot of the comments here are reading like schadenfreude, but maybe that's just me.  (I'm not really an apologist for the current POTUS, but there is a lot of really blatant, unmistakable schadenfreude out there about his diagnosis right now, so perhaps I'm simply sensitive to it.)

P.S.: I think it's funny/strange/hypocritical how nobody ever talks about a riot being a superspreader event.  After all, with this president in office?  Rioting is a patriotic duty!   (Is BLM gonna stand down once Joe's elected?)

P.P.S.:  Who knows if the "dimensions" I got back are accurate, but it is interesting to Google "Trump height weight."  If Mr. Trump is obese, then I should've died 20 years ago.    

at riots they wear masks, probably not to be identified but also not to get a virus. Trump is obese but not grossly obese

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

His exposure point is known. He picked up a lap top for his new, work from home, job. The IT guy, tested positive. He wore his mask the whole time.

Yes, safety measures are not one hundred percent. Masks aren’t perfect fits (and can’t be for most at this point, though I have seen some impressive ones that may become more common if they drop in price) and even if fitted, some aerosols get out.  Some safety measures we have control over and can prevent slip ups, most involving others though not so much.   Cases are likely to happen to even the cautious person.

But what is essential to remember is they will be less likely to happen, especially if lots of people are cautious around them. 

Is there any safety measure that is 100% sure besides absolute isolation?  Birth control pills still have a low rate of failure, so while most cases of as instructed use have no pregnancies,  even when done right sometimes babies appear. Makes sense therefore if one recognizes that rarely one is able to follow instructions perfectly, one would be smart to use more than one form of birth control to decrease the numbers of sperm and eggs likely to meet and get it on...but even then it is not a perfect world and stuff gets through sometimes (say hormones surge and eggs pop out anyway just when some teen thinks it would be funny to poke holes with a tiny needle in a dozen condoms packets at a drug store and 9 months later, a new citizen gets recorded).

Same reasoning applies here. The reasonable goal for most is not total absence of any virus in their environment, but low enough numbers so they can hopefully fight off what amount they encounter.  Doing this through masking, intelligent social distancing, standard cleaning protocol, washing hands frequently, and avoiding places where likely to encounter higher viral amounts is wisdom but one still needs to understand the world hasn’t betrayed one if you get sick....

And given the varied advice out there, when possible it is probably a good idea to do the research oneself and not assume the other person who is inviting you to relax, assuring you everything is safe always knows what they are talking about anymore than one should take the word of the cashier handing out condoms that they were 100% effective. 
 

Given in many cases we don’t know how much effort someone has put into self protection or if there are reasonable explanations for avoiding some (I recognize reasonable is not easy to get everyone to agree about), it is fair and merciful to give the benefit of the doubt imo rather than assume the suffer was responsible for putting himself in harm’s way.  Even if you see them never wearing a mask, they may be claustrophobic or have sensitive skin (got some zits or something myself for first time in a number of years iirc when wearing a mask at the hospital all day) and trying to makeup for that lack in other ways (social distancing, really limiting leaving home, etc).