Covid: Trump, the Nation, and Anything

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That he put the word “cautiously” in there makes me think the President is in serious danger.

He looked better today than yesterday and I was thinking the ending might be due to him getting tired, but it wasn't too different from other times.  If he is in danger, they are doing a good job of hiding it.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Calm

[Rajah Manchou]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes. It is in the second half of this video.

"I had no choice, because I just didn’t want to stay in the White House ... We have to confront problems. As a leader, you have to confront problems."

I mean, there is a choice. If you have a virus and you need to lead, you could at least put a mask on. 

[pogi]

20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes. It is in the second half of this video.

 

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yep, it is from his video.  I thought he was doing well at the beginning, positive and grateful.  Then he went into this....

In context, I don’t think he is speaking about the fundraiser event.  I think he is explaining why/how he contracted it - he didn’t want to be locked up.

I think they are being much more hush lipped about the Thursday fundraiser and when he was placed on O2. 

[pogi]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

I am thinking mainly about getting called by contact tracers trying to find the origin of a spreading event.  Say several people report they had contact with Harold five days ago.  Harold didn't know he was infected until yesterday.  The tracer calls him and asks if he has had symptoms and/or been tested and if the latter, was it positive.  Can Harold refuse to tell the tracer because he believes his medical info should be confidential?

Or does he have to report he has it and then help with tracing?  

If he lied about having it but stayed self quarantined as soon as he found out he did though without telling anyone, would he get in trouble if it was found out he knew afterwards he had likely infected people and didn't report it when asked?

The tracers will already know if he is positive before calling.  Labs are required to report positive results to the health department.

If Harold was already linked as a contact of several people, his chart would be “promoted” to a morbidity event once he tests positive.

Harold can’t hide from me! 😁

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

"I had no choice, because I just didn’t want to stay in the White House ... We have to confront problems. As a leader, you have to confront problems."

I mean, there is a choice. If you have a virus and you need to lead, you could at least put a mask on. 

I feel bad for whoever was running the camera for that video.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

He looked better today than yesterday and I was thinking the ending might be due to him getting tired, but it wasn't too different from other times.  If he is in danger, they are doing a good job of hiding it.

Video experts went over the latest video he released and found a bunch of cuts. They shot it in pieces and one of them looks like it was to hide a cough.

[Raingirl]

24 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Video experts went over the latest video he released and found a bunch of cuts. They shot it in pieces and one of them looks like it was to hide a cough.

Source?

[bsjkki]

I don’t know why the doctor lied yesterday but he did.

 

[smac97]

Hmm:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/stats-hold-a-surprise-lockdowns-may-have-had-little-effect-on-covid-19-spread/

[bsjkki]

 

[Robert J Anderson]

30 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Hmm:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/stats-hold-a-surprise-lockdowns-may-have-had-little-effect-on-covid-19-spread/

I sincerely hope we take a hard look at the reactions to this by the various governors and the politics that may have been involved.  It looks like politics unfortunately played a part in shutdown decisions.  The Michigan governor still wants to keep battleground Michigan shut down even though its supreme court recently ruled such was unconstitutional.  https://www.zerohedge.com/political/michigan-supreme-court-strikes-down-gov-whitmers-nanny-state-edicts

Maybe she'll change her mind on November 4?

[pogi]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

I don’t know why the doctor lied yesterday but he did.

 

Or, he is lying now and he was actually placed on O2 on Thursday, like he dodged but insinuated previously.  Seems like they are covering their tracks. They seem to be going to big efforts to hide that he attended an event while sick.  There is also evidence that he knew that Hicks was positive before he went.  He was likely infected before that, but no direct link identified yet. Hicks is a direct link.  Attending an event after knowing he had direct close contact with a positive case AND having symptoms himself, could be criminal negligence.

Edited October 4, 2020 by pogi

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

 

When asked why he lied he said he was trying “to reflect the upbeat attitude of the team”.

Also: "I didn't want to give any information that might steer the illness in another direction."

The guy is a quack.

Edited October 4, 2020 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

I found an analysis by a guy who has been treating Covid patients for many months now. A few other MDs supported the read but I am unable to personally verify. Maybe Pogi can comment?

Here it is:

Quote

1. If he already has lung damage on ct scan or CXR that’s not a good sign. That, plus the very early hypoxia, means he’s already cleared about three of the first few hurdles that means he’s on his way to getting worse. 

2. He’s the only human in the world to have received the monoclonal antibody cocktail, remdesivir, AND dexamathasone. Yes, we don’t give these for mild cases. But a) there’s a lot of good current research supporting the use of early initiation of systemic steroids in covid because it seems to help. B) he’s the president so of course he will get it all. So who knows what complications they’ve set him up for. He will certainly be hyperglycemic on the dex and I kind of wonder how he’s tolerating having to stomach insulin shots 4x a day rn. 

3. His doc, dr Conley, obviously was told to “be energetic” yesterday and muffed it up but when he let the mask fall in the midst of a storm of questions today, he seemed.. honest. I don’t think Trump’s vitals are probably that bad right now. But nobody’s would be. Really. Not a single person 3 days out from diagnosis is already tubed. The time course of this is just longer and it’s really day 5-9 that will decide the rest of his life. Not today or even tomorrow. But again, presenting early on with hypoxia and pulmonary findings is not good at all. The pulmonary changes will get worse before they get better, because the body really hates covid and mounts a fairly insane inflammatory response in the lung tissue to it. I triage a **** load of possible covid cases, they all go home because they have clear imaging and aren’t hypoxic. The old 80yo with a low O2 sat and infiltrates on X-ray is actually pretty damn rare right now and they have to be admitted. They don’t get discharged two days later. They either get discharged a week or so later, or sadly not at all. 

 

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

When asked why he lied he said he was trying “to reflect the upbeat attitude of the team”.

Also: "I didn't want to give any information that might steer the illness in another direction."

The guy is a quack.

It’s hard to believe someone when they say “I wasn’t necessarily lying”.

🤨

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Raingirl said:

Source?

It started on social media with video experts weighing in. Here is an article about it:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-walter-reed-video-coronavirus-edited-cough-b767039.html

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Hmm:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/stats-hold-a-surprise-lockdowns-may-have-had-little-effect-on-covid-19-spread/

Counterpoint: This is the National Review and cannot be trusted.

As evidence of this on their front page is an article about the doctor’s press conference and their takeaway is the ridiculous assertion by the doctors that he might go home tomorrow and not the contradictions and obfuscation from the press conference. If anyone thinks I am being harsh I recommend watching the press conference. The quotes do not give full credit to what a circus it was.

Edit: I should add that he might go back to the White House but not because he is well but because the White House can be a mini-hospital if needed.

Edited October 4, 2020 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It’s hard to believe someone when they say “I wasn’t necessarily lying”.

🤨

“I know you lie because your lips are moving”

[pogi]

This says he received O2 on Thursday and Friday + dexamethasone.
 

https://www.ksl.com/article/50024712/trumps-covid-19-condition-improving-president-received-supplemental-oxygen-thursday-and-friday

[pogi]

12 minutes ago, pogi said:

This says he received O2 on Thursday and Friday + dexamethasone.
 

https://www.ksl.com/article/50024712/trumps-covid-19-condition-improving-president-received-supplemental-oxygen-thursday-and-friday

No other president would have survived being caught in such reckless and potentially criminal negligence and disregard for human life in the name of political gain at election time.  Trump never cease to surprise me at always getting the pass though.  I guess we’ll see what happens though. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by pogi

[bluebell]

28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

“I know you lie because your lips are moving”

He’s certainly made it easy not to trust the information we get going forward. 

[Robert J Anderson]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Counterpoint: This is the National Review and cannot be trusted.

As evidence of this on their front page is an article about the doctor’s press conference and their takeaway is the ridiculous assertion by the doctors that he might go home tomorrow and not the contradictions and obfuscation from the press conference. If anyone thinks I am being harsh I recommend watching the press conference. The quotes do not give full credit to what a circus it was.

How about responding to the issue of lockdowns?  Do you think they were effective?  How do you account for the different responses depending on whether or not the given state is controlled by a republican governor or a democratic governor?  Was killing the economy worth it?  What if the thrust of the article were true and that the lockdowns didn't really prevent the spread?  At first it was merely about flattening the curve to not overwhelm hospitals, and now that the curve is flattened, the Michigan governor wants to continue the lockdowns.  In contrast, the Florida governor recently opened up the state.  It's hard not to see the politics involved.

[strappinglad]

Seems that the docs are fighting to maintain some semblance of compliance with HIPAA rules. Maybe Trump has given carte blanche to any info on his health and treatment, but if not, the docs are treading on thin ice here. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by strappinglad

[Rain]

48 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I found an analysis by a guy who has been treating Covid patients for many months now. A few other MDs supported the read but I am unable to personally verify. Maybe Pogi can comment?

Here it is:

. . 

He’s the only human in the world to have received the monoclonal antibody cocktail, remdesivir, AND dexamathasone. Yes, we don’t give these for mild cases. But a) there’s a lot of good current research supporting the use of early initiation of systemic steroids in covid because it seems to help. B) he’s the president so of course he will get it all. So who knows what complications they’ve set him up for. He will certainly be hyperglycemic on the dex and I kind of wonder how he’s tolerating having to stomach insulin shots 4x a day rn. 

So steroids can cause blood sugar to raise. I have experienced that.

Is Trump a diabetic?  If not do they normally give non diabetics insulin in cases like this?  If he is a diabetic and on insulin normally then 4 times a day isn't unusual if you carb count.  Even if he isn't normally on insulin the shots are a piece of cake compared to the flu and other shots.  They are quite small and likely he would not get much at a time if he normally isn't in it so it would be quick. 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I found an analysis by a guy who has been treating Covid patients for many months now. A few other MDs supported the read but I am unable to personally verify. Maybe Pogi can comment?

Here it is:

I think he has some valid points, but I don't think he is considering other possibilities. 

Quote

1. If he already has lung damage on ct scan or CXR that’s not a good sign. That, plus the very early hypoxia, means he’s already cleared about three of the first few hurdles that means he’s on his way to getting worse. 

Very true, but I don't think he is considering the possibility that Remdesivir really works.  If Trump was only given access to treatments that the rest of America receive (American's don't have access to Remdesivir or dexamethasone in the early stages - it is in fact, contraindicated for all other Americans at that stage), I think there is a very good chance he would have died from this given his age, comorbidities, and rapid onset hypoxemia.  The fact that his O2 sats dropped so quickly so early is a very, very, bad, bad sign.   It is possible that he could get worse, but typically, once someone gets off oxygen, they don't get back on. I am really surprised at how quickly he was maintaining oxygen sats on room air after dropping so fast.  It's hard to know what to predict what will happen with his untested treatments however.  It very well could still get worse.  His untested treatments could even potentially cause more harm then good.  Or, it could be the miracle that we have all been hoping for.   I wouldn't have given him much of a chance of a positive outcome without the treatment however.  Maybe that is why they were willing to take such drastic measures with untested treatments and untested combinations of therapies.

Quote

2. He’s the only human in the world to have received the monoclonal antibody cocktail, remdesivir, AND dexamathasone. Yes, we don’t give these for mild cases. But a) there’s a lot of good current research supporting the use of early initiation of systemic steroids in covid because it seems to help. B) he’s the president so of course he will get it all. So who knows what complications they’ve set him up for. He will certainly be hyperglycemic on the dex and I kind of wonder how he’s tolerating having to stomach insulin shots 4x a day rn. 

It absolutely could cause more complications, but it could also save his life.  The fact that he is off oxygen with very high O2 sats on room air, that is a very good sign things are improving.  Once they are off, they don't usually need it later.  There is about a 50/50 chance he has drug induced hyperglycemia from dex.  It happens to about half of patients. It is not necessarily a given.

Quote

3. His doc, dr Conley, obviously was told to “be energetic” yesterday and muffed it up but when he let the mask fall in the midst of a storm of questions today, he seemed.. honest. I don’t think Trump’s vitals are probably that bad right now. But nobody’s would be. Really. Not a single person 3 days out from diagnosis is already tubed. The time course of this is just longer and it’s really day 5-9 that will decide the rest of his life. Not today or even tomorrow. But again, presenting early on with hypoxia and pulmonary findings is not good at all. The pulmonary changes will get worse before they get better, because the body really hates covid and mounts a fairly insane inflammatory response in the lung tissue to it. I triage a **** load of possible covid cases, they all go home because they have clear imaging and aren’t hypoxic. The old 80yo with a low O2 sat and infiltrates on X-ray is actually pretty damn rare right now and they have to be admitted. They don’t get discharged two days later. They either get discharged a week or so later, or sadly not at all.

Again, if Trump was any other American, this would be true.  I don't think he is really considering the possibility that the drugs might actually be therapeutic and that Trump won't be getting worse before getting better.  It is impossible to predict what will happen.  He is right that it is too early to be too optimistic though.  I think "cautiously optimistic" is a fair judgment by his doctor given his improvement in vital signs, however.

Edited October 4, 2020 by pogi