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Covid: Trump, the Nation, and Anything


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14 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Despite creating confusion with his remarks? Exactly.

"He muddied the waters a few minutes later, however, by comparing the number of coronavirus fatalities in the U.S. (none, at that point in time) to the number of fatalities during an average flu season, and accusing the press of being in “hysteria mode”

This is Trump's MO. Blow a troll horn or a dog whistle to get everybody worked up and then muddy the waters so he can't actually be held accountable for what he just said. Stand down and stand by. If you haven't picked up on this pattern yet, just look at the White House response to the most basic questions about the status of Trump's lungs right this moment. They can't give a simple straight answer.

This administration cannot give a simple straight answer about a basic question like, when did President Trump first test positive for COVID? If we go with one answer, its false. If you go with the other answer, also false. The media is always telling lies because they quote the confusion that Trump creates.

He never called the virus a hoax and when Biden says he did, he is lying. He was directly calling out the press and their coverage. 

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I'm afraid to ask this one question on FB, would you do me the honor? I'd love to find a list of things that Trump is going to do for the future, does he have a platform or vision? I saw a link yesterday of Biden's and it is lengthy. 

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trump-campaign-announces-president-trumps-2nd-term-agenda-fighting-for-you/

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27 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is a blatantly false statement. CFR

Quote

He never called the virus a hoax and when Biden says he did, he is lying. He was directly calling out the press and their coverage. 

I know you understand where the confusion comes from, so no need to go back and forth.

I'm not going to go down the Qanon rabbit hole here, but there's a massive movement out there that believes COVID is a hoax or "plandemic" and Trump knows his audience well. When he says "this is the new hoax", you hear one thing and the COVID deniers hear another. It might be a blatantly false statement to you, but its not to everybody. 

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53 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Me and you both. I think we were both watching this develop. I cheered the travel ban on Feb. 2nd but felt it was weeks too late. I was shocked at the reaction to this from political opponents. 

It was a crazy time with the impeachment hearing.

The travel ban from Europe was too late too. In February, I think leaders from both parties were hoping we could quarantine/check travelers and contain this. Italy (by way of Wuhan) seeded NYC and Colorado. The international, rich skier spread it throughout the west. Our governor was slow to shut down ski resorts. Should have shut down sooner. 

But its all Monday morning quarterbacking. It was already here and spreading by mid February but the CDC testing debacle made it difficult to know it. For most who were sick early, they thought it was just the flu.

I didn’t cheer either travel restriction. Both were completely inadequate and were so full of holes that I suspect they did virtually nothing. We needed a full quarantine of everyone entering the nation. The targeted restrictions were insufficient.

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9 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Usually, when the rich do poorly, the poor do more poorly. If the rich don't have investment dollars...my business is gone. My employee's are unemployed.

 

Which is one reason, we need to open up. Are you blaming Trump for the unemployment number during covid. It's quite amazing it is down to 7.7 percent and that is with New York and California still shut down. 

 

You realize this was impossible. China didn't contain it. They stopped flights from Wuhan to other parts of China, allowed international flights out of Wuhan, while lying to the WHO about human transmission. Place the blame where it belongs. In Jan-Feb, we were in the middle of impeachment. If Trump had shut down, like you propose, he would have been accused of doing just for politics. When he banned Chinese travel, against the advise of the scientists, he was attacked for it. The WHO was against travel bans...which the New York Times just exposed. The CDC definitely messed up testing...those delays were costly. 

The first known case in the US was in Jan in Washington State. We were clueless as to what this virus was at that time...

 

I don’t buy the trickle-down theory. The idea that “a rising tide raises all ships” ignores the continually increasing wealth gap. Have you looked at savings interest rates? We don’t need more investment dollars. There is plenty of it available. We need more money in the hands of those who will spend it to keep our crazy economy going. Ideally we should restructure said crazy economy that relies on continuous growth and unwise spending by consumers to maintain itself but that is unlikely to happen unless it is forced.

I don’t think we need to open up. I think a 60 or 90 day shutdown to contain and eliminate the disease is ideal and it is still possible but it seems like no one ever considers it an option. These half-measures are helping a bit but they all rely on a vaccine showing up. If a vaccine does not come then we have to let it burn out which means a lot of people are going to die.

A couple of cases got in but no, we had plenty of warning. China is culpable for some of the early spread but if we had set up quarantine on all entry when we found out what was going on and strictly enforced it we likely could have kept cases in the hundreds and rooted out the rest with rigorous testing and contact tracing. We did not. I can blame China and the administration. Saying we had no chance of containing it when we had only a few cases would also suggest we cannot blame China because they couldn’t have contained it when they had a few cases.

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Never happened. Don’t believe our media or Biden about this.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/

What's False

Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.

While true he called coverage of the coronavirus a hoax. It is hair-splitting. He was convinced his enemies were playing it up and that was a hoax.

The more dangerous hoax was the administration’s continual statements that the pandemic is nearly over, will just go away, and the like. 

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23 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

I know you understand where the confusion comes from, so no need to go back and forth.

I'm not going to go down the Qanon rabbit hole here, but there's a massive movement out there that believes COVID is a hoax or "plandemic" and Trump knows his audience well. When he says "this is the new hoax", you hear one thing and the COVID deniers hear another. It might be a blatantly false statement to you, but its not to everybody. 

The confusion comes from the press and now Biden. He never said the virus was a hoax. Never. This was actually fact checked at the time and found to be false.

Fringe groups exist in both sides of aisle and should be ignored.

 

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6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

. I think a 60 or 90 day shutdown to contain and eliminate the disease is ideal and it is still possible but it seems like no one ever considers it an option.

Because it’s an insane idea...the virus is here and will re-emerge whenever we move to open up. 

 

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30 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

The confusion comes from the press and now Biden. He never said the virus was a hoax. Never. This was actually fact checked at the time and found to be false.

You're hung up on the word hoax. Let me rephrase my original comment without the partisan baggage that word seems to carry:

"I think there's a lot of misinformation coming from the Trump Administration on this. They need to blame someone for not doing more in January to stop the virus. The country I live in was heavily screening inbound flights as soon as they knew their was a virus in Wuhan. Meanwhile Trump was trying to convince us that it was all a hoax was no worse than the common flu and that it would, like a miracle, all go away"

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46 minutes ago, bsjkki said:
53 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

. I think a 60 or 90 day shutdown to contain and eliminate the disease is ideal and it is still possible but it seems like no one ever considers it an option.

Because it’s an insane idea...the virus is here and will re-emerge whenever we move to open up. 

Not only an insane policy but also very harmful.  Many small businesses are not able to hang on but get wiped out never to come back.  Many families get severely stressed out because of the confinement.  Suicide and divorce rates have gone up.  Drug use has increased.  Young people get cheated out of their education and development even though statistics show youth brackets (ages 5 thru 40) have survival rates of 99.9% or better.  It is no longer a pandemic.  We now need to treat it the same way Obama treated the SARS outbreak.

Edited by longview
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2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

China’s traffic density below 10% in Feb, but criticises global traffic curbs

Like everything, Trump contradicts himself. Through the end of February he praised China's efforts to contain "the Coronavirus". Then once the virus began to spread in the USA he changed his tune and began to blame China for not having done enough to contain what he now calls the "China Virus". 

----

“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!” - Jan. 24, Twitter

“And, honestly, I think, as tough as this negotiation was, I think our relationship with China now might be the best it's been in a long, long time. And now it's reciprocal. Before, we were being ripped off badly. Now we have a reciprocal relationship, maybe even better than reciprocal for us.” - Jan. 29, Remarks at signing ceremony for the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement

"China is not in great shape right now, unfortunately. But they're working very hard. We'll see what happens. But we're working very closely with China and other countries." - Jan. 30, Fox News interview

"I just spoke to President Xi last night, and, you know, we're working on the — the problem, the virus. It's a — it's a very tough situation. But I think he's going to handle it. I think he's handled it really well. We're helping wherever we can." - Feb. 7, Remarks at North Carolina Opportunity Now Summit in Charlotte, N.C.:

"Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days … Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!" - Feb. 7, Twitter

"Late last night, I had a very good talk with President Xi, and we talked about — mostly about the coronavirus. They're working really hard, and I think they are doing a very professional job. They're in touch with World — the World — World Organization. CDC also. We're working together. But World Health is working with them. CDC is working with them. I had a great conversation last night with President Xi. It's a tough situation. I think they're doing a very good job.” - Feb. 7, Remarks before Marine One departure

"I think China is very, you know, professionally run in the sense that they have everything under control," Trump said. "I really believe they are going to have it under control fairly soon. You know in April, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weather. And that's a beautiful date to look forward to. But China I can tell you is working very hard." - Feb. 10, Fox Business interview

“I spoke with President Xi, and they’re working very, very hard. And I think it’s all going to work out fine.” - Feb. 10, campaign rally in Manchester, N.H.

“I think they've handled it professionally and I think they're extremely capable and I think President Xi is extremely capable and I hope that it's going to be resolved." - Feb. 13, Fox News interview

“I think President Xi is working very hard. As you know, I spoke with him recently. He’s working really hard. It’s a tough problem. I think he’s going to do — look, I’ve seen them build hospitals in a short period of time. I really believe he wants to get that done, and he wants to get it done fast. Yes, I think he’s doing it very professionally.” - Feb. 18, remarks before Air Force One departure:

"I think President Xi is working very, very hard. I spoke to him. He's working very hard. I think he's doing a very good job. It's a big problem. But President Xi loves his country. He's working very hard to solve the problem, and he will solve the problem. OK?" - Feb. 23, remarks before Marine One departure

“China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control.” - Feb. 26, remarks at a business roundtable in New Delhi, India

“I spoke with President Xi. We had a great talk. He’s working very hard, I have to say. He’s working very, very hard. And if you can count on the reports coming out of China, that spread has gone down quite a bit. The infection seems to have gone down over the last two days. As opposed to getting larger, it’s actually gotten smaller.” - Feb. 27, Coronavirus Task Force press conference

“China seems to be making tremendous progress. Their numbers are way down. … I think our relationship with China is very good. We just did a big trade deal. We’re starting on another trade deal with China — a very big one. And we’ve been working very closely. They’ve been talking to our people, we’ve been talking to their people, having to do with the virus.” - Feb. 29, Coronavirus Task Force press conference

Edited by Rajah Manchou
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29 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Because it’s an insane idea...the virus is here and will re-emerge whenever we move to open up. 

 

It most likely will but if we contain it enough we can move to contact tracing to catch what is left and hopefully stamp it out. We would also have to do a strict quarantine for incoming international travellers including citizens who are abroad. Once the contact tracing has trimmed everything down we can open everything up.

The current mitigation measures have only stabilized the number of new cases at a steady clip and it looks like we are going up again. Only 3 states have lower totals than they did last week and the nation as a whole is hitting its highest number since August.

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19 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

You're hung up on the word hoax. Let me rephrase my original comment without the partisan baggage that word seems to carry:

"I think there's a lot of misinformation coming from the Trump Administration on this. They need to blame someone for not doing more in January to stop the virus. The country I live in was heavily screening inbound flights as soon as they knew their was a virus in Wuhan. Meanwhile Trump was trying to convince us that it was all a hoax was no worse than the common flu and that it would, like a miracle, all go away"

Please read through the actions that were taken in the Wikipedia article. We can take quotes from just about everyone at the beginning of this including the WHO, Democrats and other world leaders and find fault. Also, the information and what happened did change. Some information we know now, was not known at the time. 

President Trump took the virus seriously, shut down travel and our economy to fight it. 

He never said it was a hoax.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It most likely will but if we contain it enough we can move to contact tracing to catch what is left and hopefully stamp it out. We would also have to do a strict quarantine for incoming international travellers including citizens who are abroad. Once the contact tracing has trimmed everything down we can open everything up.

The current mitigation measures have only stabilized the number of new cases at a steady clip and it looks like we are going up again. Only 3 states have lower totals than they did last week and the nation as a whole is hitting its highest number since August.

I talked with my doctor and he said there is no ‘stamping it out’ at this point.

It’s too widespread. It will come back upon reopening. A vaccine is the answer.

With school opening and more widespread testing, the numbers were sure to go up. 

Even with more cases, and opened schools, in my county we have only had 2 deaths since the end of July. 

 

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18 minutes ago, longview said:

 Young people get cheated out of their education and development even though statistics show youth brackets (ages 5 thru 40) have survival rates of 99.9% or better.  

The larger concern is about young people spreading it in the community.  They don't live in a vacuum.  But even young people end up hospitalized in large numbers.  Down-player's only focus on survival rates of young people, ignoring other morbidity factors. 

21 minutes ago, longview said:

It is no longer a pandemic.  

Says who?

22 minutes ago, longview said:

We now need to treat it the same way Obama treated the SARS outbreak.

In 2003 there were only 8 people in the US who were infected with SARS.  They were all infected while abroad.  There was ZERO community spread in the US.  ZERO deaths.  7.4 million cases of Covid in US and 210,000 deaths with Covid (and the year is not over yet), almost all from community spread, yet we need to treat Covid the same way?  

 

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5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 

It is like they were all daring the Universe to do this to them.

She was wrong. She was not the White House spokesman in February do not privy to information. A lot of people said wrong things in February.

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18 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Even with more cases, and opened schools, in my county we have only had 2 deaths since the end of July. 

It takes time to go from school aged kids to parents/working siblings, to community, to vulnerable people, to hospital, to death - but it inevitably seems to happen.  Death is always a lagging indicator.  Give it time.  Unless you are suggesting that it has mutated in your County to a less deadly strain then everywhere else, you shouldn't expect significantly different outcomes with the lagging indicator of death.  Also, there is more to be concerned about then mortality rate. 

Edited by pogi
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7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Please read through the actions that were taken in the Wikipedia article. We can take quotes from just about everyone at the beginning of this including the WHO, Democrats and other world leaders and find fault. Also, the information and what happened did change. Some information we know now, was not known at the time. 

President Trump took the virus seriously, shut down travel and our economy to fight it. 

No he didn't. He shut down a very limited amount of travel and the state governments shut down the economy. Throughout the shutdown the President was complaining at how bad the stock market was doing and insisting everyone went too far.

5 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I talked with my doctor and he said there is no ‘stamping it out’ at this point.

It’s too widespread. It will come back upon reopening. A vaccine is the answer.

With school opening and more widespread testing, the numbers were sure to go up. 

Even with more cases, and opened schools, in my county we have only had 2 deaths since the end of July. 

I disagree with your doctor unless your doctor meant we do not have the political and social will to stamp it out. If your doctor meant the latter I agree with him.

3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

She was wrong. She was not the White House spokesman in February do not privy to information. A lot of people said wrong things in February.

Yes, a lot of them said wrong things but most lacked the bravado of making such absolute claims and of course there is the malice there that this administration will do better with disease control compared to that incompetent idot from before(spoilers: they did not).

Ignorance is not an excuse when you are making absolute statements about the topic.

Macbeth appears to have entered Act V.

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On 10/3/2020 at 12:18 AM, Calm said:

I was wondering.

How many have to get infected to qualify as a superspreader event?

I am reading 10 or more, but none were medical sites.

I think the count is up to 14 now.  This was an event that was hosted by the President.  I wish there would be more attention paid to science and the medical professional from this administration. 

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8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No he didn't. He shut down a very limited amount of travel and the state governments shut down the economy. Throughout the shutdown the President was complaining at how bad the stock market was doing and insisting everyone went too far.

I disagree with your doctor unless your doctor meant we do not have the political and social will to stamp it out. If your doctor meant the latter I agree with him.

Yes, a lot of them said wrong things but most lacked the bravado of making such absolute claims and of course there is the malice there that this administration will do better with disease control compared to that incompetent idot from before(spoilers: they did not).

Ignorance is not an excuse when you are making absolute statements about the topic.

Macbeth appears to have entered Act V.

^This^.  

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