17 Tornadoes, Earthquakes in Utah and Idaho, Planets Align

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

mean I thought primary children still memorized the 10th article of faith.

You are misunderstanding my comments if you think I am contradicting that or prophets. 

[california boy]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

No, how believing of me.

How strange to be one of only a few members in a Church led by prophets who believe in prophecy?

I  mean I thought primary children still memorized the 10th article of faith.

 

I think Christ was suppose to come in 1918.  Plague was much more devastating than the current virus.

Earthquakes in 1918 were much stronger and killed many more people (from Wikipedia)

By death toll[edit]

Rank	Death toll	Magnitude	Location	MMI	Depth (km)	Date
1	2,000	7.3	China, Fujian Province	X (Extreme)	15.0	February 13
2	144	7.1	United States, northwest of Puerto Rico	IX (Violent)	15.0	October 11
3	52	8.3	Philippines, south of Mindanao	X (Extreme)	20.0	August 15
4	23	8.1	Russia, Kuril Islands	( )	15.0	September 7

 

By magnitude[edit]

Rank	Magnitude	Death toll	Location	MMI	Depth (km)	Date
1	8.3	52	Philippines, south of Mindanao	X (Extreme)	20.0	August 15
2	8.1	23	Russia, Kuril Islands	( )	15.0	September 7
= 3	7.8	0	Russia, east of the Kuril Islands	( )	15.0	November 8
= 3	7.8	1	Chile, Atacama Region	( )	25.0	December 4
= 4	7.5	0	Papua New Guinea, off the north coast of	( )	15.0	July 3
= 4	7.5	0	Indonesia, Babar Islands	( )	35.0	November 18
5	7.4	0	Russia, Primorsky Krai	( )	330.4	January 30
= 6	7.3	2,000	China, Fujian Province	X (Extreme)	15.0	February 13
= 6	7.3	0	central Mid-Atlantic Ridge	( )	15.0	May 20
= 7	7.2	0	Bangladesh, Netrokona District	( )	15.0	July 8
= 7	7.2	0	Papua New Guinea, Mussau Island	( )	15.0	October 27
= 8	7.1	0	Fiji	( )	35.0	May 22
= 8	7.1	144	United States, northwest of Puerto Rico	IX (Violent)	15.0	October 11
= 8	7.1	0	northern Mid-Atlantic Ridge	( )	15.0	December 2
= 9	7.0	0	China, Heilongjiang Province	( )	564.9	April 10
= 9	7.0	0	Papua New Guinea, north of New Ireland (island)	( )	15.0	May 20

Tornados in 1918

• 1918 Tyler tornado
  The 1918 Tyler tornado was a large and destructive tornado that devastated the town of Tyler, Minnesota on Wednesday, August 21, 1918. The F4-estimated
  2 KB (115 words) - 11:04, 7 December 2018
• 1918
  1918 January February March April May June July August September October November December 1918 (MCMXVIII) was a common year starting on Tuesday of the
  95 KB (10,643 words) - 14:23, 27 March 2020
• Tornado records
  This article lists various tornado records. The most "extreme" tornado in recorded history was the Tri-State Tornado, which spread through parts of Missouri
  39 KB (4,046 words) - 18:07, 27 March 2020
• Brighton tornado
  The Brighton tornado is the strongest storm recorded in Melbourne to date. On the afternoon of 2 February 1918, with prevailing north-westerly winds and
  3 KB (277 words) - 02:07, 15 September 2019
• 1920 Palm Sunday tornado outbreak
  earliest tornado-related deaths in an automobile; the earliest known such death was probably on May 19, 1918, in Iowa. Around 7:30 pm, another tornado developed
  38 KB (2,385 words) - 17:02, 28 March 2020
• 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team
  The 1918 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team represented the Georgia Tech Golden Tornado of the Georgia Institute of Technology during the 1918 Southern
  27 KB (2,034 words) - 14:17, 11 March 2020
• 1918 in the United States
  Kansas is hit for the third year in a row by a tornado. Coincidentally, all three tornadoeshit on May 20, 1916, 1917, and 1918 respectively. June 8 – The total
  43 KB (3,526 words) - 08:23, 31 March 2020
  
   

And then don't forget that in 1918 the entire world was at war.  World War I.

Kinda makes 2020 look like some whimpy wanna be.

Edited April 2, 2020 by california boy

[thatjimguy]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

Why are moderate earthquakes in Utah and Idaho so much more important than major earthquakes elsewhere?  

They aren't more important. They do get reported on the news more because we (assuming American) relate to it more. It strikes closer to home. Which I why I heard and remembered those.

Edited April 2, 2020 by thatjimguy

[JamesBYoung]

There is disease and tornadoes and hurricanes and quakes and all sorts of terrible things.

Like there is every year.

This happens to be the worst, discounting the holocaust, since 1918.

[RevTestament]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

There was a previous time when those three planets aligned: Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars aligned in a Trigon (equilateral triangle), 19 Feb 6 BC, in Pisces.

That was followed by a Galactic Supernova (Williams #52) in Capricorn, lasting 70 days, Mar through May of 5 BC, on the ecliptic. That same event was recorded in the Chinese chronicle, Ch'ien-han-shu, and in the Korean “History of Three Kingdoms - the Chronicle of Silla (Samguk Sagi).”

 

See D. H. Clark, J. H. Parkinson, and F. R. Stephenson, “An Astronomical Re-appraisal of the Star of Bethlehem–A Nova in 5 B.C.,” Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, 18 (1977):443-449.

A nova does not last long enough to appear in the East and then reappear in the West in order to lead the  wise men to Bethlehem. It was a planetary conjunction which formed a "new star." 

[Robert F. Smith]

27 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

A nova does not last long enough to appear in the East and then reappear in the West in order to lead the  wise men to Bethlehem. It was a planetary conjunction which formed a "new star." 

The 7 B.C. Trigon may have alerted them that something was coming (Kepler was well-aware of it, and realized that Jesus had to have been born in around 7-5 B.C.[1]), but it was the 70-day supernova early the next year which clinched the deal.    Pliny the Elder said that Augustus Caesar believed that the "star" (actually a comet) which appeared for seven days in 44 B.C. was that "predicted" in Virgil's 4th Eclogue (40 B.C.) and that it signaled his own rebirth or regeneration.  New stars sometimes accompanied the birth of important people:  Alexander Severus (late 2nd century A.D.), Mithradates Eupator (132/134 B.C.), Augustus Caesar, and Jesus.[2]

The phrase, "we have seen his star in the East" (Mat 2:2 εἴδομεν αὐτοῦ τὸν ἀστέρα ἐν τῇ ἀνατολῇ) is actually an astronomical term meaning "heliacal rising."  As with much in the KJV NT, we must not always take things literally.  Thus, the magi, who specifically come from the East, "observed his star at its rising" (NRSV).  That set them on their journey.  However, the star did not lead them to Bethlehem, because they did not know where the Messiah would be born, and thus stopped to consult with Herod the Great.  Herod didn't know, so the chief priests told him and the magi that it would be Bethlehem.  By that time, Baby Jesus had long since been moved into a house.  So, the traditional picture of three kings in a manger is nonsense.  There may have been a dozen magi, wise men, probably members of the large Persian Jewish community, with maybe some members of the learned Jewish community in Babylon (through which the Persians would pass on their long trek).  That is why they knew to go to Jerusalem.  Satisfied that they had made proper obeisance to the Messianic King, they headed home.

[1] George H. van Kooten and Peter Barthel, eds., The Star of Bethlehem and the Magi: Interdisciplinary Perspectives from Experts on the Ancient Near East, the Greco-Roman World, and Modern Astronomy, Themes in Biblical Narrative 19 (Leiden: Brill, 2015), portions online at https://books.google.com/books?id=pnbsCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

[2] E. S. Little, Astronomical Society of the Pacific Leaflet, 474 (Dec 1968), cited in Nature, 264:517. Alfred Duggan, He Died Old: Mithradates Eupator, King of Pontus (1958).

[RevTestament]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The 7 B.C. Trigon may have alerted them that something was coming (Kepler was well-aware of it, and realized that Jesus had to have been born in around 7-5 B.C.[1]), but it was the 70-day supernova early the next year which clinched the deal.    Pliny the Elder said that Augustus Caesar believed that the "star" (actually a comet) which appeared for seven days in 44 B.C. was that "predicted" in Virgil's 4th Eclogue (40 B.C.) and that it signaled his own rebirth or regeneration.  New stars sometimes accompanied the birth of important people:  Alexander Severus (late 2nd century A.D.), Mithradates Eupator (132/134 B.C.), Augustus Caesar, and Jesus.[2]

The phrase, "we have seen his star in the East" (Mat 2:2 εἴδομεν αὐτοῦ τὸν ἀστέρα ἐν τῇ ἀνατολῇ) is actually an astronomical term meaning "heliacal rising."  As with much in the KJV NT, we must not always take things literally.  Thus, the magi, who specifically come from the East, "observed his star at its rising" (NRSV).  That set them on their journey.  However, the star did not lead them to Bethlehem, because they did not know where the Messiah would be born, and thus stopped to consult with Herod the Great.  Herod didn't know, so the chief priests told him and the magi that it would be Bethlehem.  By that time, Baby Jesus had long since been moved into a house.  So, the traditional picture of three kings in a manger is nonsense.  There may have been a dozen magi, wise men, probably members of the large Persian Jewish community, with maybe some members of the learned Jewish community in Babylon (through which the Persians would pass on their long trek).  That is why they knew to go to Jerusalem.  Satisfied that they had made proper obeisance to the Messianic King, they headed home.

[1] George H. van Kooten and Peter Barthel, eds., The Star of Bethlehem and the Magi: Interdisciplinary Perspectives from Experts on the Ancient Near East, the Greco-Roman World, and Modern Astronomy, Themes in Biblical Narrative 19 (Leiden: Brill, 2015), portions online at https://books.google.com/books?id=pnbsCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

[2] E. S. Little, Astronomical Society of the Pacific Leaflet, 474 (Dec 1968), cited in Nature, 264:517. Alfred Duggan, He Died Old: Mithradates Eupator, King of Pontus (1958).

I agree with much of what you say Robert, but there is no reason to dismiss a heliacal rising. Note the scriptures indicate they saw "His" star in the East. How can a star be "His?" Is that because it was a conjunction of the King Star of Jupiter to form the brightest "new" star in the sky? A birth date of 7-5 BC also runs into scriptural problems due to conflicting with Luke. Further, it is driven by the false notion that Herod died earlier. The English translations of Josephus carry a translation/typographical/other error which has led to this assumption that Herod died earlier. The manuscripts of the works of Josephus reveal this was an error, and therefore, Herod apparently died in 1 BC.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I agree with much of what you say Robert, but there is no reason to dismiss a heliacal rising. Note the scriptures indicate they saw "His" star in the East. How can a star be "His?" Is that because it was a conjunction of the King Star of Jupiter to form the brightest "new" star in the sky? A birth date of 7-5 BC also runs into scriptural problems due to conflicting with Luke. Further, it is driven by the false notion that Herod died earlier. The English translations of Josephus carry a translation/typographical/other error which has led to this assumption that Herod died earlier. The manuscripts of the works of Josephus reveal this was an error, and therefore, Herod apparently died in 1 BC.

Even Johannes Kepler knew that Dionysus Exiguus had made a major error in math in calculating the years Anno Domini.  The monk should have put AD 1 in 5 B.C.  He couldn't do the math.  Kepler, however, did do that math, and actually knew of the Trigon in 7-5 BC.  He also knew (as virtually all scholars admit today) that Herod the Great died in early 4 B.C.,  thus putting Jesus' birth no later than 5 B.C.

The Scriptures do not say that the magi saw his star in the East.  It says they saw the heliacal rising of his star, which most likely indicates the 70-day supernova on the ecliptic.

The Gospels are written far too late to be accurate.  The time conflicts in the Gospels alone ought to tell you that.  Only one book of Scripture actually tells us when Jesus was born, and that is the Book of Mormon.  It even gives us the exact length of Jesus' life, in addition to a specific 600-year countdown from the year Lehi left Jerusalem -- and we know what that exact year was based on contemporary cuneiform documentation.  Thus, Jesus was born on Jewish New Year's Day (1 Tishri), Rosh haShana of 5 B.C.  He died 33 years and 3 days later at Passover.  All measured in Mesoamerican Long Count years (360-day years).

[Stargazer]

On 4/1/2020 at 4:49 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

The amount of earthquakes world wide, and with such frequency, along with this ever growing pandemic, does (or should) give those who believe pause to listen and learn.

One should always watch and listen. But as far as I can tell, earthquakes aren't more frequent or more severe. That ongoing earthquake swarm at Challis, Idaho, is sort of unusual, but not that much. The area has had serious earthquakes before -- with fatalities.  I don't know if the number and severity of the aftershocks is particularly worse.

Here's a picture of earthquakes worldwide over the last 30 days. Pretty normal.

[Teancum]

On 4/1/2020 at 8:24 AM, JLHPROF said:

Plus a worldwide plague.

Cue the people pointing out it's all perfectly normal and natural.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

nothing new. Plagues, earthquakes, storms....all part of living on a the earth.

[Teancum]

On 4/1/2020 at 11:16 AM, JLHPROF said:

Because they are more significant to the gospel timeline.  Just as those events in Israel and Jackson County Missouri are.

Some areas of the world have more significant roles to play in the winding up scene than others.

Oh my. Religions really creates all sorts of oddity. 

[Damien the Leper]

I'm more worried about when the Lord comes back in 250,000 years.

[Stargazer]

40 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

I'm more worried about when the Lord comes back in 250,000 years.

On the theory that the longer it takes, the angrier he'll be? 🙂 

[longview]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

nothing new. Plagues, earthquakes, storms....all part of living on a the earth.

Very good chance that Coronavirus will burn out by July.  A commentator says this:  "So we’re now on April 2nd, so this is missing a week worth of data. But basically the first three months of this year there were — we’ll call it 22,000 deaths by coronavirus. Malaria, 228,000. Two million deaths by hunger, 113,000 deaths seasonal flu.

[RevTestament]

10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The Gospels are written far too late to be accurate.  The time conflicts in the Gospels alone ought to tell you that. 

Are you referring to the time conflict I brought up that Luke has with your interpretation? Or just in general? 

Quote

Only one book of Scripture actually tells us when Jesus was born, and that is the Book of Mormon.  It even gives us the exact length of Jesus' life, in addition to a specific 600-year countdown from the year Lehi left Jerusalem -- and we know what that exact year was based on contemporary cuneiform documentation.  Thus, Jesus was born on Jewish New Year's Day (1 Tishri), Rosh haShana of 5 B.C.  He died 33 years and 3 days later at Passover.  All measured in Mesoamerican Long Count years (360-day years).

The problem with the 600 year countdown is that we don't know exactly when it began, or if 600 years is being used in a general sense like we use estimates. Isn't there 6 months between Rosh HaShana and the Passover? Thus, Yeshua lived 33 and a half years here. I haven't calculated the exact number of days...

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Are you referring to the time conflict I brought up that Luke has with your interpretation? Or just in general?

Specifically as well as generally.

Quote

 The problem with the 600 year countdown is that we don't know exactly when it began,

As I said, we have contemporary cuneiform documentation which gives us the exact year.  This is called absolute dating, not relative dating.  Jack Finegan, the eminent scholar who wrote the book on the subject of biblical chronology, says that 2 Addaru in King Nebuchadrezzer's 7^th year = 16 March 597 B.C. "is the most exact information to come from cuneiform records for an event recorded in the Bible, and gives us a precise day for the fall of Jerusalem and the capture of Jehoiachin."^[1]  Shortly thereafter, most likely on 10 Nisannu (= 22 April 597 B.C.), Zedekiah, the new King of Judah, took office and began the first year of his reign -- giving us a firm terminus post quem for Lehi's call as a prophet.

---

               ^[1] Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology, 2nd ed., '437, citing A. Green, "The Last Days of Judah," Journal of Biblical Literature, 101 (1982):68-73.  

Quote

or if 600 years is being used in a general sense like we use estimates.

The Book of Mormon countdown is precise and annalistic, repeated everywhere in the text.  Using the 360-day-year Mesoamerican Long Count brings us right down to 5 B.C.  The 600 years begins in Zedekiah's first year (1 Nephi 1:4, 10:4, 3 Nephi  superscription).  600 years in 360-day years = 593 solar years.

Quote

Isn't there 6 months between Rosh HaShana and the Passover?

Yes, and calculated in 360-day Long Count years, that six-months precesses from Rosh haShana to Passover (6 months are lost in 33 years).

Quote

Thus, Yeshua lived 33 and a half years here. I haven't calculated the exact number of days...

No, because the Book of Mormon declares specifically that Jesus lives 33 years and 3 days (3 Ne 8:5).  The count is precise.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Robert F. Smith

[rodheadlee]

114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those ^acities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the ^bdesolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them ^adesolate.

116 Let him ^atrust in me and he shall not be ^bconfounded; and a ^chair of his head shall not fall to the ground unnoticed.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/york-crisis-cuomo-pleads-help-163823034.html

 

[california boy]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those ^acities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the ^bdesolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them ^adesolate.

116 Let him ^atrust in me and he shall not be ^bconfounded; and a ^chair of his head shall not fall to the ground unnoticed.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/york-crisis-cuomo-pleads-help-163823034.html

 

I personally hate these kinds of posts, trying to pull God into a pandemic that is world wide to somehow make Him their allie. It is like those who use the writings of Nostradamus to prove he had some gift of prophesy.  For me, it only cheapens the idea of revelation from God.  But hey, there are a lot of people who love using God for all kinds of justifications including war and mass suicide.  That is not how I feel about the God that I worship.  He doesn't bring death to a geographical area because of something that happened almost 2 centuries ago.

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I personally hate these kinds of posts, trying to pull God into a pandemic that is world wide to somehow make Him their allie. It is like those who use the writings of Nostradamus to prove he had some gift of prophesy.  For me, it only cheapens the idea of revelation from God.  But hey, there are a lot of people who love using God for all kinds of justifications including war and mass suicide.  That is not how I feel about the God that I worship.  He doesn't bring death to a geographical area because of something that happened almost 2 centuries ago.

I'm pretty sure the thread is signs of the times. Look God didn't do this. That's a result of our own actions and it's appalling. I didn't see any comment on verse 116.

[rodheadlee]

Here is some more signs of the times:

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with ^asword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

[Damien the Leper]

Signs of the times is ridiculous nonsense. Even Jesus said He didn't know when. Knowing that, it is quite absurd to try to predict even a minuscule about how close the end is. Furthermore, if He comes like a thief in the nigh then He isn't going to announce that coming with a loud earthquake or tornado. 

[california boy]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

I'm pretty sure the thread is signs of the times. Look God didn't do this. That's a result of our own actions and it's appalling. I didn't see any comment on verse 116.

If you are suggesting that the current pandemic and minor earth quakes in Utah fulfilling prophecy of the latter days, then how do you apply all the plagues. earthquakes, volcano eruptions, tsunami, floods. and other natural disasters that have been happening since the beginning of time?  Why aren't they "signs of the times".  What actually makes this time so much different that NOW we should believe they fulfill some kind of prophecy.

Whether there are natural disasters, pandemics or prosperous times and good health, the message should always be trust God.  

I obviously still think messages like the one you posted is still misguided and only adds to the wolf calling that religion seems to endlessly employ.  People should be encouraged to turn toward God, not because of world calamities and fear of utter distruction, but to find peace in their lives at all times and in all places.  Our motivation to turn towards God should not be based on fear, but on seeking righteousness.  

I spent three summers sailing throughout the Greek Isles.  One thing that is prevalent on those islands are these small one room churches.  They are typically about 15' x 30 feet.  Usually whitewashed walls with blue roofs.  They dot the landscape of a lot of these islands.  I mean there are hundreds of these little chapels.  Some are built literally right next to each other.  I asked why so many churches.  What I was told is that many were built by sailors out to sea during a violent storm.  They made a promise to God that if He would only save them, then they would build a church in His honor.  The storm passed, and when they reached home, true to their promise, they built these little chapels.  

The thing is, I never saw anyone actually using those chapels.  They were like white sepulchres that Christ talked about.  They aren't used to worship God, or to draw near to Him. They were built to fulfill a promise made out of fear in the belief that evidently the only time a sailor needs God in his life is when he is terrified of dying.  I don't find that kind of relationship with God very healthy.  Promoting fear as a reason to turn towards God, in my opinion, is exploitive and ignorance based religion.  That is why I have such distaste for it.

Edited April 5, 2020 by california boy

[california boy]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Here is some more signs of the times:

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with ^asword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

Tell me why you posted this verse and why you think now is the time to post this.  What kind of reaction are you expecting?

[The Nehor]

On 4/2/2020 at 6:50 PM, longview said:

Very good chance that Coronavirus will burn out by July.  A commentator says this:  "So we’re now on April 2nd, so this is missing a week worth of data. But basically the first three months of this year there were — we’ll call it 22,000 deaths by coronavirus. Malaria, 228,000. Two million deaths by hunger, 113,000 deaths seasonal flu.

We are now at about 65,000 worldwide deaths and many parts of the world are still in the early stages and if there is any error (and there is) it is underreported. Future historians are going to have lively arguments about the actual death toll. How many deaths from pneumonia  were due to this virus but we do not have the resources to test dead bodies for recordkeeping purposes.

This will be repeated in many areas: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/03/826675439/corpses-lie-for-days-as-ecuador-struggles-to-keep-up-with-covid-19-deaths

I also have my doubts that July will end it. I think there will be surges as we unlock down and move it to being based on region and have to lockdown again in some areas where we catch new outbreaks. I hope that by winter it will be done. I think that is realistic if the antibodies are enduring enough. If not, very interesting times lie ahead.

I probably seem like a pessimist but I think I am being realistic.

One thing to watch is Iceland. They have made tests available to anyone who wants one. They may provide us with better numbers as to how many as a percentage are asymptomatic, better percentages on serious symptoms and hospitalization. China is almost certainly giving bad numbers now. Most nations have pretty limited testing availability. Iceland ramped up early and is giving tests to anyone who wants one. Sadly there has been bad reporting saying that 50% of people tested who test positive have no symptoms. That is technically true but only that they have not had any symptoms yet. Early guess is about 25% are asymptomatic through the whole thing but hopefully we will get better data as we go.

Stay safe everyone.

Edited April 5, 2020 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

Tell me why you posted this verse and why you think now is the time to post this.  What kind of reaction are you expecting?

Pointing out that if this is accurate about today we have a long road? That is only horse number one.