It Happened - No Church!

[Jeanne]

All you LDS  people get off the board...it is😉😍 the Sabbath!

[Prof]

Mom and I are enjoying BYU TV.

Watched worship service, music and the spoken word, and now a BYU devotional.

Nice services.

[CA Steve]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but given that virus can be spread by asymptomatic infected people, is it really a good idea for ministers to be visiting multiple houses on Sunday? Or even gathering together in small groups for Sunday service? Since my wife is in a very high risk group and we have a few cases locally in my area, I have asked pretty much everyone to avoid any unnecessary visiting to our home. My wife is scheduled for an extensive surgery this week and I have asked people not to visit her  in the hospital for both her's and their safety. 

[bsjkki]

9 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but given that virus can be spread by asymptomatic infected people, is it really a good idea for ministers to be visiting multiple houses on Sunday? Or even gathering together in small groups for Sunday service? Since my wife is in a very high risk group and we have a few cases locally in my area, I have asked pretty much everyone to avoid any unnecessary visiting to our home. My wife is scheduled for an extensive surgery this week and I have asked people not to visit her  in the hospital for both her's and their safety. 

I think what you have done is perfect. Our ministers were asked to make sure their families could receive the Sacrament once a month. Caution is warranted. I think there are ways to stagger this so not too many are visited on any given Sunday. Risk categories are an important component.

Edited March 15, 2020 by bsjkki

[mfbukowski]

16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But if the bishop said to go ahead and do it and then heard later that a family in his ward had subsequently done it, he would know he had so authorized it. 

The key to all this is to prevent unworthy yahoos from starting their own churches because they "have the priesthood" and they and whatever groups they put together become in effect their own wards. It all goes together with the prohibition against "gospel hobbies" and people starting their own study groups.

It's actually a defense of the whole ward system, when everyone has the priesthood. 

What makes a ward? Sacrament meeting.

You can't have everyone making their own wards and never coming together.

I know that because when I first joined the church I was not that impressed about the quality of the talks or instruction so I thought to myself "Why bother going to church? I could just bless the sacrament and do it all my own and study all day"

As an only child I was used to being alone most of my life, as a religious rebel, I had gotten all of it from my own philosophy studies.

Nope. I was wrong.

Community for it's own sake is a necessity,  and the power of the gospel is in community, not separation

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by mfbukowski

[amo]

20 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

The key to all this is to prevent unworthy yahoos from starting their own churches because they "have the priesthood" and they and whatever groups they put together become in effect their own wards. It all goes together with the prohibition against "gospel hobbies" and people starting their own study groups.

It's actually a defense of the whole ward system, when everyone has the priesthood. 

What makes a ward? Sacrament meeting.

You can't have everyone making their own wards and never coming together.

I know that because when I first joined the church I was not that impressed about the quality of the talks or instruction so I thought to myself "Why bother going to church? I could just bless the sacrament and do it all my own and study all day"

As an only child I was used to being alone most of my life, as a religious rebel, I had gotten all of it from my own philosophy studies.

Nope. I was wrong.

Community for it's own sake is a necessity,  and the power of the gospel is in community, not separation

 

 

Love this, thx, BUT, what could anyone do when your own bishop holds his own sacrament meeting with  some 3 or 4 families from the ward...?

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but given that virus can be spread by asymptomatic infected people, is it really a good idea for ministers to be visiting multiple houses on Sunday? Or even gathering together in small groups for Sunday service? Since my wife is in a very high risk group and we have a few cases locally in my area, I have asked pretty much everyone to avoid any unnecessary visiting to our home. My wife is scheduled for an extensive surgery this week and I have asked people not to visit her  in the hospital for both her's and their safety. 

If one is very concerned, ask bishop for special permission to have a personal one if possible. Or with ministers....You could also provide bread and plate, they could use masks and gloves to break bread and water could be already in small cups or bottles. If weather permits, have the sacrament on front porch. 

[Calm]

18 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But if the bishop said to go ahead and do it and then heard later that a family in his ward had subsequently done it, he would know he had so authorized it. 

Of course. One wanted personal contact to share that knowledge, the other was okay not knowing specifics because he gave permission generically and thus would have a general idea of what was being done generically. In the second case the bishop wouldn’t be able to track those who didn’t bother. I am confused as to your issue. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, amo said:

Love this, thx, BUT, what could anyone do when your own bishop holds his own sacrament meeting with  some 3 or 4 families from the ward...?

 

Don't quite understand what you mean, but if it concerns you, I would speak to the Stake president.  If is something done consistently and he is excluding others, that would concern me.

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

20 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But if the bishop said to go ahead and do it and then heard later that a family in his ward had subsequently done it, he would know he had so authorized it. 

Of course. One wanted personal contact to share that knowledge, the other was okay not knowing specifics because he gave permission generically and thus would have a general idea of what was being done generically. In the second case the bishop wouldn’t be able to track those who didn’t bother. I am confused as to your issue. 

Our Bishop sent me a text giving me permission to have our own family sacrament meeting which we did. He asked that I report back to him after we did it, which I did.
The kids actually had a good time and all participated.

 

[InCognitus]

This is semi-related to the home church topic, but I really need to share this....

My son came over this morning with his three young children to participate in our home church, because the kids really needed to have their weekly nursery time experience.  When it was time for them to go home to take their naps, one of the boys who is two and a half years old, sat himself on my wife's lap and looked her right in the face, and the exchange went like this:

Grandson:
    Grandma, take nap at grandma’s house?
    Take nap at grandma’s house?
    Take nap at grandma’s house?

Wife (looking him in the face and trying to correct him):
    You want to take a nap at grandma’s house?

Grandson:
    Ok.
 

Note to self:  The force is strong with this one.   His Jedi mind tricks will not work on me.

Edited March 16, 2020 by InCognitus

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

Our Bishop sent me a text giving me permission to have our own family sacrament meeting which we did. He asked that I report back to him after we did it, which I did.
The kids actually had a good time and all participated.

 

I wasn’t asked to report back but I did so anyway, with pleasure, after our service this morning. 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Of course. One wanted personal contact to share that knowledge, the other was okay not knowing specifics because he gave permission generically and thus would have a general idea of what was being done generically. In the second case the bishop wouldn’t be able to track those who didn’t bother. I am confused as to your issue. 

Doing it after receiving permission — even blanket permission in a multi-recipient email — is different from going ahead and doing it willy-nilly without even bothering to find out if approval has been given. 

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The key to all this is to prevent unworthy yahoos from starting their own churches because they "have the priesthood" and they and whatever groups they put together become in effect their own wards. It all goes together with the prohibition against "gospel hobbies" and people starting their own study groups.

It's actually a defense of the whole ward system, when everyone has the priesthood. 

What makes a ward? Sacrament meeting.

You can't have everyone making their own wards and never coming together.

I know that because when I first joined the church I was not that impressed about the quality of the talks or instruction so I thought to myself "Why bother going to church? I could just bless the sacrament and do it all my own and study all day"

As an only child I was used to being alone most of my life, as a religious rebel, I had gotten all of it from my own philosophy studies.

Nope. I was wrong.

Community for it's own sake is a necessity,  and the power of the gospel is in community, not separation

 

 

Well said. 
 

Reminds me of the post here the other day that questioned why we ever have a congregation at general conference. We do it because we draw strength from communing with one another. Even if we are not present in the location from which the broadcast is emanating, it helps us to see other Saints so gathered. 
 

When we held our brief sacrament service in our home today, it was warm and comfortable, but in a very real way, I felt we were at one with the other members of our ward. That was confirmed just now when I reported back to our bishop. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Doing it after receiving permission — even blanket permission in a multi-recipient email — is different from going ahead and doing it willy-nilly without even bothering to find out if approval has been given. 

Agreed, am wondering if anything I said suggested you thought I thought such was appropriate.

It feels like we are having two different conversations.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Someone needs to edit the title of this thread. Today was filled with church from beginning to end!

We had our home service at 9:00. We were joined by a recent-ish convert and one of my non-member friends. I haven't been able to get B---- to church in a long time, but he was keen to come to my home this morning, he participated like a member, and he said he'll keep coming. He also stayed for nearly an hour after we finished just to chat. So good!

I then picked up my 18-year-old ministering companion to assist in providing the sacrament to four families. The first consists of a mum and four adult children. The kids are all inactive, but the mum jumped at the chance to get them to attend church at home. She had a formal program prepared, and they were joined by the youngest daughter's partner and also a non-member niece. We stayed through the sacrament portion and then excused ourselves.

We then visited two elderly single sisters in their respective homes, both converts from a few years ago. In each we had a nice chat, shared the sacrament, and left with a prayer.

Our next visit was to a single mum with two boys. I ordained the elder of them a deacon a couple of months ago, but he has significant intellectual disability, and he's declined passing the sacrament at church. Today, however, I successfully encouraged him to help us by passing the sacrament to his mum and younger brother at home. He chose wine classes to hold the water since they're fancy and also because he thought they would be easier to carry because of their stems.

In each case, the spirit of peace in the home was palpable when we left.

We then met, by their request, with one of our newly assigned ministering families. The wife's parents and siblings are all here in our stake, and they had gathered together this morning for a home service, including her less-active brother. This afternoon, we just enjoyed being together.

When I finally dropped my companion home at 6:15 this evening, we'd been out together for 6.5 hours. I asked him if he was prepared to do something similar next Sunday. His response: 'Looking forward to it!' We had discussed in the car how good it felt to have been of use to some of our ward members. He hasn't really had much desire to serve a mission, but when the husband in our last visit asked him about that tonight, my companion said, 'Getting closer'. And indeed, I can't think of any better way to get closer to a full-time mission than learning to really serve during this time of need.

One of the things I really loved seeing today was how each family/individual was able to cater to their specific needs. As part of our service this morning, we watched one of the Church's videos about the 'freeze' in Ghana when our churches there were shut down. The people interviewed told of how a period of home-based worship had made them both closer and stronger. I suspect we are going to see the same across the entire Church this time. We've spent enough time discussing ministering to one another in higher and holier ways; now's the do it. It's going to forever change us as a people.

You are a saint, Hamba. 

[carbon dioxide]

4 hours ago, JAHS said:

Our Bishop sent me a text giving me permission to have our own family sacrament meeting which we did. He asked that I report back to him after we did it, which I did.
The kids actually had a good time and all participated.

 

We are doing our little family sacrament after dinner.   It will be interesting.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Agreed, am wondering if anything I said suggested you thought I thought such was appropriate.

It feels like we are having two different conversations.

I’m still wrapping my mind around the concept of not knowing about a thing after having given permission for it. 
 

But it’s not important to me. 

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’m still wrapping my mind around the concept of not knowing about a thing after having given permission for it. 
 

But it’s not important to me. 

It I think that is where you misunderstood me. If a bishop requests confirmation that someone is doing the sacrament at home, they know for sure who is participating. If he doesn’t ask, then he may be assuming some are doing it who are not or the reverse even if he knows permission to do it. 
 

He has knowledge they all have permission, he may lack knowledge on who is actually doing it. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, amo said:

Love this, thx, BUT, what could anyone do when your own bishop holds his own sacrament meeting with  some 3 or 4 families from the ward...?

 

 

4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Don't quite understand what you mean, but if it concerns you, I would speak to the Stake president.  If is something done consistently and he is excluding others, that would concern me.

I made this point earlier, but it strikes me as defeating the purpose of curtailing group gatherings if you go ahead and have your own ad hoc mini-sacrament meeting with non-family members. It seems somebody is not getting the concept. 
 

Our temple, over the next few weeks, is not even allowing own-endowment sessions with more than eight invitees. 

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but given that virus can be spread by asymptomatic infected people, is it really a good idea for ministers to be visiting multiple houses on Sunday? Or even gathering together in small groups for Sunday service? Since my wife is in a very high risk group and we have a few cases locally in my area, I have asked pretty much everyone to avoid any unnecessary visiting to our home. My wife is scheduled for an extensive surgery this week and I have asked people not to visit her  in the hospital for both her's and their safety. 

Yes, there’s still a risk involved. I think that’s why the Church is not requiring that it happen more than once a month. 

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

It I think that is where you misunderstood me. If a bishop requests confirmation that someone is doing the sacrament at home, they know for sure who is participating. If he doesn’t ask, then he may be assuming some are doing it who are not or the reverse even if he knows permission to do it. 
 

He has knowledge they all have permission, he may lack knowledge on who is actually doing it. 

Our bishop sent a mass email to ward members telling us our receipt of his letter constituted our being authorized to administer the sacrament at home with proper authority. He didn’t seem to desire follow-up reporting, though I did make such a report to him a little while ago. 
 

Apparently, the important thing is that the permission be given. Once that happens, it is up to us what we do with it. 

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but given that virus can be spread by asymptomatic infected people, is it really a good idea for ministers to be visiting multiple houses on Sunday? Or even gathering together in small groups for Sunday service? Since my wife is in a very high risk group and we have a few cases locally in my area, I have asked pretty much everyone to avoid any unnecessary visiting to our home. My wife is scheduled for an extensive surgery this week and I have asked people not to visit her  in the hospital for both her's and their safety. 

In my ward the only ones we are visiting are those with no Priesthood (or insufficient Priesthood) in the home to perform the ordinance. This means mostly single sisters. We toyed with the idea of families gathering and decided instead to leave it to member’s discretion. The stake has only asked that everyone who wants to provide the sacrament in their own home ask the Bishop first so Bishop knows who is doing it with a written record (mostly text or emails).

I am about to conduct sacrament meeting alone by myself. I decided to have Motab perform the music so as not to disrupt the spirituality of the meeting that might follow were I to sing a solo.

Edited March 16, 2020 by The Nehor

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Is it really a good idea for ministers to be visiting multiple houses on Sunday? Or even gathering together in small groups for Sunday service?

In our stake, we are strictly following the social distancing and personal hygiene guidelines provided by both local and national health authorities. (Social distancing is not at all the same as quarantine -- which is why I'm at work this morning, in our parliament building, along with dozens of other workers.) We are also responding to personal requests from families/individuals regarding desired contact.

Quote

Since my wife is in a very high risk group and we have a few cases locally in my area, I have asked pretty much everyone to avoid any unnecessary visiting to our home.

This sounds like a wise decision in your case and is certainly your call to make.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You are a saint, Hamba. 

We all are! That's the whole point of the Restored Church, in my opinion.