Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Peacefully said: Just received this from our Bishop, but it was authorized by the Stake President. 1. The Sacrament is authorized to be administered in homes on Sundays provided a worthy Priest or Melchizedek priesthood holder presides and conducts the ordinance in an atmosphere, setting and manner that is appropriate. I invite the presiding priesthood holder to let me know who they are administering the sacrament to & to report back afterwards (email or text will suffice).2. The Elders Quorum Presidency will coordinate closely with the Relief Society Presidency to ensure priesthood holders are able to provide every home the opportunity to partake of this sacred ordinance at least once in the month. Meeting in small groups with other households to receive the sacrament is appropriate - using good judgement. Doesn’t meeting with others to take the sacrament defeat the purpose of suspending sacrament meeting? 1
Calm Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Yes, even with chief rabbis, there is no real hierarchy in Judaism. However, if I recall correctly, you were exploring the possibility of Latter-day Saints being given permission to go ahead and have Sacrament in their own homes, blessed by priesthood in the family. Or did I misunderstand you? Yep, but I knew it could be given from past experiences as well as what I have heard from overseas so it is more an exploration for me of how authority will be given out. Will it come from SL or will it be locals deciding and how consistent? So far it is locals and rather inconsistent. In the US where Government hasn’t said stay home period yet that I am aware of like they have in Italy, I have seen permission to any who is normally authorized to do it at church to do it at home with or without letting the bishop know to having the congregation come to church once a month to receive it (assuming that means dividing congregation into four parts). It is how people react and the choices they are making that I am finding most interesting in this crisis.
Robert F. Smith Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Calm said: Yep, but I knew it could be given from past experiences as well as what I have heard from overseas so it is more an exploration for me of how authority will be given out. Will it come from SL or will it be locals deciding and how consistent? So far it is locals and rather inconsistent. In the US where Government hasn’t said stay home period yet that I am aware of like they have in Italy, I have seen permission to any who is normally authorized to do it at church to do it at home with or without letting the bishop know to having the congregation come to church once a month to receive it (assuming that means dividing congregation into four parts). It is how people react and the choices they are making that I am finding most interesting in this crisis. If I were SL, I'd have it remain local. The bishops, stake presidents, and branch presidents have a better understanding of local needs and who the faithful priesthood holders might be. In China, where the LDS Church is primarily familial, just doing it in the home seems best. Would certainly make sense in Italy. Could have a profound effect on children seeing Daddy and older brother bless the Sacrament at home. Very different from just attending Church and being more remote participants. I think of Father Lehi building a rude altar of stones in the wilderness and performing a blood sacrifice, after which everyone in the family ate the sacrificial meat. A powerful immediacy there.
Robert F. Smith Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Doesn’t meeting with others to take the sacrament defeat the purpose of suspending sacrament meeting? Maybe so, but there will likely be shut-ins who won't otherwise have the opportunity to take the emblems at least monthly. Personally I wouldn't take the risk.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said: Maybe so, but there will likely be shut-ins who won't otherwise have the opportunity to take the emblems at least monthly. Personally I wouldn't take the risk. I don’t question having priesthood holders take emblems to the homes of shut-ins as a service. But it sounded like what was contemplated was having a number of families meet together in a sort of mini-sacrament meeting. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Nofear said: ......................................................... Bring on the snake handlers.
Robert F. Smith Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don’t question having priesthood holders take emblems to the homes of shut-ins as a service. But it sounded like what was contemplated was having a number of families meet together in a sort of mini-sacrament meeting. Yeh, I can see that happening.
Bernard Gui Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Prof said: Zion is where the pure in heart dwell. And where the Saints will gather and build the New Jerusalem (Zion) on the American continent. 1
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 I don't know what the big deal is, I've been on two vacations with in-laws, cruise/houseboat, and we had the Sacrament on the boats. But maybe my in-laws got permission.
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted March 14, 2020 Popular Post Posted March 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Calm said: Will it come from SL or will it be locals deciding and how consistent? So far it is locals and rather inconsistent. That's because the sacrament is an ordinance belonging to the Aaronic Priesthood. Our Bishop this morning notified our ward that all priests and elders who hold active temple recommends have been authorised by him to administer the sacrament in their own homes and in the homes of any they're assigned to minister to. All other situations are cleared through the bishopric. I've already cleared three and made arrangements for home visits tomorrow. And it needs to be 'inconsistent' in order to match the reality of each ward/branch. 5
Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Calm said: Yep, but I knew it could be given from past experiences as well as what I have heard from overseas so it is more an exploration for me of how authority will be given out. Will it come from SL or will it be locals deciding and how consistent? So far it is locals and rather inconsistent. In the US where Government hasn’t said stay home period yet that I am aware of like they have in Italy, I have seen permission to any who is normally authorized to do it at church to do it at home with or without letting the bishop know to having the congregation come to church once a month to receive it (assuming that means dividing congregation into four parts). It is how people react and the choices they are making that I am finding most interesting in this crisis. If they are doing it without the knowledge of the bishop, that strikes me as improper.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: I don't know what the big deal is, I've been on two vacations with in-laws, cruise/houseboat, and we had the Sacrament on the boats. But maybe my in-laws got permission. I'm guessing if you asked them, they would say that's what they did. The approval needs to come from the bishop who has jurisdiction over the area where the houseboat/cruise ship is located at the time of the ordinance. As I explained in an earlier post on this thread, the sacrament is an ordinance that requires the exercise of keys. The bishop who has jurisdiction over the location where the sacrament is administered holds the keys for its administration, and the ordinance must not transpire without his authorization. Edited March 14, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: I don't know what the big deal is, I've been on two vacations with in-laws, cruise/houseboat, and we had the Sacrament on the boats. But maybe my in-laws got permission. 27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I'm guessing if you asked them, they would say that's what they did. The approval needs to come from the bishop who has jurisdiction over the area where the houseboat/cruise ship is located at the time of the ordinance. I found this on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Tech forum: https://tech.churchofjesuschrist.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28479 I know the policy for administering the sacrament lies with the local authority of wherever you are at. We are going to be on a cruise for two full weeks and would like to offer a service to all LDS members including ourselves on the cruise. I want to know who can or is willing to authorize one to administer the sacrament while in the middle of the ocean. Our Bishop and stake president can't so who can and who will? Top Quote Re: Administering the sacrament on vacation Postby lajackson » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:29 pm reckbrian wrote:I want to know who can or is willing to authorize one to administer the sacrament while in the middle of the ocean. Our Bishop and stake president can't so who can and who will? The bishop who presides over the location where you will be is the only one who can authorize the administration of the sacrament. If authorized, you would report back to him after the service was held. And yes, even in the middle of the ocean you are within the jurisdiction of a bishop or other priesthood leader. In addition to that instruction, the Handbook also says that sacrament services should not be held in conjunction with family reunions or other outings. While it is important to meet with the Saints and partake of the sacrament regularly, sometimes it is not possible. General authorities attend sacrament services only once a month (usually). All of us miss partaking of the sacrament during a stake conference or general conference weekend. While you probably will not receive authorization to conduct a sacrament meeting, there is no reason you cannot have gospel discussions with your family and other members and friends on the Sabbath day. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy is possible under any circumstances, with or without the ordinance of the sacrament. Top reckbrian New Member Posts: 2 Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:46 pm Re: Administering the sacrament on vacation Postby reckbrian » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:04 am Thanks. I knew all of that, but I was hoping there was another solution. That was our backup plan anyway. 2
Calm Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: If they are doing it without the knowledge of the bishop, that strikes me as improper. If they are doing it with the permission of the bishop, what is wrong with that?
mfbukowski Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Doesn’t meeting with others to take the sacrament defeat the purpose of suspending sacrament meeting? Since the keys to allowing this to happen remain in The Bishop's purview, these things remain under local control. Our Bishop specifically suggested that we only invite others carefully, taking due care to not circumvent the very purpose of meeting separately. 1
mfbukowski Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: I don't know what the big deal is, I've been on two vacations with in-laws, cruise/houseboat, and we had the Sacrament on the boats. But maybe my in-laws got permission. Yes, that is the procedure, doing that without authorization is prohibited
Stargazer Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 14 hours ago, The Nehor said: Is it wrong to pray that he dies quickly so he will not lead others to die with him? Yes, it is. He could change. Others with his affliction have, so hope exists.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, Calm said: If they are doing it with the permission of the bishop, what is wrong with that? I don't follow you. How could they do it with his permission but without his knowledge? 1
Stargazer Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Yes, that is the procedure, doing that without authorization is prohibited Many years ago when I was in the Army, my unit was once a few weeks out in the field, and training every day (and many of the nights). I had no contact with other members and no opportunity to take the sacrament, and a couple of weeks into this rather extended period of training felt more than a little spiritually "out of sorts". So on a Sunday evening, when it wasn't yet full dark, I betook myself out of the bivouac area and sat down on a rock. I prayed, sang a hymn, and then blessed a ration cracker and some water using the sacrament prayers. Following which I read from the scriptures. It was a micro sacrament meeting for me, and gave me a lot of uplift. Many years later I found out that what I had done wasn't authorized without permission, but I didn't feel like I had something "wrong", since I didn't know. I did regret not knowing of the need for authorization -- I guess I thought of it as something akin to giving a priesthood blessing to the sick. It seems that in all that time I had been in the church that it might have been part of some kind of training -- upon my ordination to the office of priest, for example-- to make me aware of the policy in such cases. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Stargazer said: Many years ago when I was in the Army, my unit was once a few weeks out in the field, and training every day (and many of the nights). I had no contact with other members and no opportunity to take the sacrament, and a couple of weeks into this rather extended period of training felt more than a little spiritually "out of sorts". So on a Sunday evening, when it wasn't yet full dark, I betook myself out of the bivouac area and sat down on a rock. I prayed, sang a hymn, and then blessed a ration cracker and some water using the sacrament prayers. Following which I read from the scriptures. It was a micro sacrament meeting for me, and gave me a lot of uplift. Many years later I found out that what I had done wasn't authorized without permission, but I didn't feel like I had something "wrong", since I didn't know. I did regret not knowing of the need for authorization -- I guess I thought of it as something akin to giving a priesthood blessing to the sick. It seems that in all that time I had been in the church that it might have been part of some kind of training -- upon my ordination to the office of priest, for example-- to make me aware of the policy in such cases. Perhaps we need to do better at teaching the principle of priesthood keys. Most of us know intuitively that it is impermissible to perform a baptism or a priesthood ordination without leader authorization, even when one holds the priesthood authority to do so. The same principle applies to administration of the sacrament. Edited March 14, 2020 by Scott Lloyd 3
Calm Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don't follow you. How could they do it with his permission but without his knowledge? One bishop said to go ahead and do it and apparently left it at that; another one said let me know if you choose to do it. That is what I meant by with or without the bishop's knowledge.
Calm Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Perhaps we need to do better at teaching the principle of priesthood keys. Most of us know intuitively that it is impermissible to perform a baptism or a priesthood ordination without authorization, even when one holds the priesthood authority to do so. The same principle applies to administration of the sacrament. But permission to give someone a blessing for health and well being or other reasons is not needed. The confusion may come from assuming it is only blessings and ordinances that must be recorded that also must be given permission for. 2
Raingirl Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Calm said: One bishop said to go ahead and do it and apparently left it at that; another one said let me know if you choose to do it. That is what I meant by with or without the bishop's knowledge. Perhaps what the the Bishop meant by “if you choose to do it”, was to let him know ahead of time, and he will provide permission individually and specifically, rather than a blanket permission to all.
mfbukowski Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stargazer said: Many years ago when I was in the Army, my unit was once a few weeks out in the field, and training every day (and many of the nights). I had no contact with other members and no opportunity to take the sacrament, and a couple of weeks into this rather extended period of training felt more than a little spiritually "out of sorts". So on a Sunday evening, when it wasn't yet full dark, I betook myself out of the bivouac area and sat down on a rock. I prayed, sang a hymn, and then blessed a ration cracker and some water using the sacrament prayers. Following which I read from the scriptures. It was a micro sacrament meeting for me, and gave me a lot of uplift. Many years later I found out that what I had done wasn't authorized without permission, but I didn't feel like I had something "wrong", since I didn't know. I did regret not knowing of the need for authorization -- I guess I thought of it as something akin to giving a priesthood blessing to the sick. It seems that in all that time I had been in the church that it might have been part of some kind of training -- upon my ordination to the office of priest, for example-- to make me aware of the policy in such cases. I couldn't agree more . I was quoting the policy not agreeing with it. Have done that myself Edited March 14, 2020 by mfbukowski
Lemuel Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Perhaps we need to do better at teaching the principle of priesthood keys. Most of us know intuitively that it is impermissible to perform a baptism or a priesthood ordination without authorization, even when one holds the priesthood authority to do so. The same principle applies to administration of the sacrament. Do the scriptures say anywhere that a priesthood holder needs authorization to administer sacrament?
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