Focus Group - your top concerns

[Meadowchik]

22 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Christ addresses this issue a number of times in the NT, including the principle that following Him includes the need to “leave” family, which He invited/instructed His disciples to do on multiple occasions.

l’d invite you to ponder what He says regarding this topic, and why.

 

I'm not so much concerned about my family separating over belief, we're a bit stronger than that. What I am concerned about is the quality of our lives and relationships. To be more specific, I am most concerned about authoritarian overreach of the religious organization. If this was only about Christ's influence, I wouldn't be concerned. 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Meadowchik

[juliann]

22 hours ago, Duncan said:

My Mom credits herself with getting a baby change table in her church building, she told me and I paraphrase "don't talk to the men, talk to their wives, they have influence!" it would be appear her wisdom exceeds her church building🧠

Good for her for going the extra mile. But whatever influence a woman may have depends solely on her connections to men who can make those decisions. It has nothing to do with being a woman. All these anecdotes do is emphasize how little influence women actually do have. 

[MiserereNobis]

23 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I advocate sovereignty for Church HQ and Temples

Do you mean go the route of Vatican City and the Holy See?

I've jokingly said this before, that temple square should be turned into its own country. I hadn't thought of temples as embassies, though. 

It works for us Catholics because there's a billion of us and we used to run Europe. I doubt the US would grant sovereignty to SLC, though... the civil war kinda nixed that idea. And I doubt that other countries would recognize LDS sovereignty, too. Fun thought experiment, though.

[let’s roll]

33 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm not so much concerned about my family separating over belief, we're a bit stronger than that. What I am concerned about is the quality of our lives and relationships. To be more specific, I am most concerned about authoritarian overreach of the religious organization. If this was only about Christ's influence, I wouldn't be concerned. 

 

Churches have no power to divide families.  If families divide over church, that is the result of family members’ decisions.

Deity does have power to divide families, and will.

If a family desires not to be divided by Deity, it behooves them to understand when God binds families together and when He divides them       and act upon that understanding.

[Meadowchik]

37 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Churches have no power to divide families.  If families divide over church, that is the result of family members’ decisions.

Deity does have power to divide families, and will.

If a family desires not to be divided by Deity, it behooves them to understand when God binds families together and when He divides them       and act upon that understanding.

Please stop. Thank you.

[nuclearfuels]

5 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Do you mean go the route of Vatican City and the Holy See?

Yes.

For those who claim to want separation of church and state, why not let them have it?

Sometimes the most educational thing God can do for His children is actually give them what they ask for.

[nuclearfuels]

4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

4 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Churches have no power to divide families.  If families divide over church, that is the result of family members’ decisions.

Deity does have power to divide families, and will.

If a family desires not to be divided by Deity, it behooves them to understand when God binds families together and when He divides them       and act upon that understanding.

Please stop. Thank you.

A hypercollectivist organization such as the Church does wield significant social pressure. Claiming otherwise isn't objective.

" If families divide over church, that is the result of family members’ decisions."  Not that those decisions might be legit, though?

 

[nuclearfuels]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:46 PM, ksfisher said:

What do you mean by this?

Be like Catholic Church HQ, the Holy See. Church HQ and Temples would be considered sovereign like Native AMerican reservations/countries and like the Holy See

Give those who want separation of church and state exactly that: full and complete separation.

[nuclearfuels]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:46 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

levitation

I also advocate levitation being instituted in our faith. 

Now THAT is a survey response, eh?

[nuclearfuels]

On 10/29/2019 at 1:55 PM, truth a la carte said:

·       Define tithing (net? gross? perhaps something else entirely – for example, does the Community of Christ give guidance to their members that “increase” is what is left, after basic living expenses are taken out?)

I think this one is tricky as cryptocurrencies continue rising.

I'd prefer asking how people liek me can pay tithing on my increase via stocks and such, rather than 13% of my gross income, after taxes which are ridiculously high

[nuclearfuels]

On 10/29/2019 at 2:53 PM, JarMan said:

The curriculum is so sanitized and shallow. In effect we don't even really have scriptures anymore. This needs to change at the seminary and church university level as well as at the ward level.  

Good point.

 

Did you bychance serve your mission in FLorida?

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

I think this one is tricky as cryptocurrencies continue rising.

I'd prefer asking how people liek me can pay tithing on my increase via stocks and such, rather than 13% of my gross income, after taxes which are ridiculously high

Your annual increase.  Thus, the ups and downs of the market will tell you how much to pay the Lord.  Capital gains?

[blueglass]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I also advocate levitation being instituted in our faith. 

Now THAT is a survey response, eh?

It's actually called "wafting" yourself from place to place. 

Wilford Woodruff's journal Jan3, 1837

"President Z. Coltrin ordained me as a member of the first Seventy & Pronounced great blessings
upon my head by the Spirit of Prophecy & Revelation. Some of them I will mention which are as
follows: THAT my enemies may Confine me in Prisions & Chains & that I would rend the
Prisions & Chains in twain in the name of JESUS CHRIST & that the Lord would give me great
Power, Knowledg, & wisdom & faith so that I should heal the sick caus the Blind to see the lame
to leap as an heart, the Deaf to hear Stop the mouths of Lions & rase the dead to life & waft
myself (as did Philip) from River to river from Sea to sea & from Continant to Continant for the
Purpose of Preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ & that I should stand before Kings & Princes &
that they would send for me to receieve Wisdom Knowledge & instruction at my mouth because
they Considered me wiser than themselves in like manner as the Egyptians sought wisdom at the
hand of JOSEPH."

[Meadowchik]

11 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

A hypercollectivist organization such as the Church does wield significant social pressure. Claiming otherwise isn't objective.

" If families divide over church, that is the result of family members’ decisions."  Not that those decisions might be legit, though?

 

I can say plenty about divisiveness of the organisation, yet that was not the concern that I brought to this post, and I certainly did not post on this topic so that Lets Roll can preach their views on how Christ divides families and what they think I need to do about it.

[gopher]

I didn't have any concerns about the church ... until now.  My new list:

1. Stop using focus groups to develop policy.  Have some confidence in your responsibility to receive revelation from God on how to best run the church.

[The Nehor]

On 11/1/2019 at 11:27 AM, Durangout said:

It was poorly thought out, poorly executed, no objective measurements of success, no accountability, requires local units to make up their own program to augment to it to get any value out if it, relies on the parents who weren't doing their jobs before to make it work, asks the greatest generational disaster of human beings to walk planet earth to lnow what’s best for themselves regarding their development, provides little to no resources for support, takes away resources from YM, over burdens  an already over burdened bishopric...I’m getting a head ache.  Can I stop now or shall I go on?

How do you know it is poorly thought out and poorly executed? It has not even started yet.

Your appraisal of the current generation and the appraisal of the apostles differ. I will go with the belief of the latter.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, gopher said:

I didn't have any concerns about the church ... until now.  My new list:

1. Stop using focus groups to develop policy.  Have some confidence in your responsibility to receive revelation from God on how to best run the church.

You would think. 

[ksfisher]

4 hours ago, gopher said:

I didn't have any concerns about the church ... until now.  My new list:

1. Stop using focus groups to develop policy.  Have some confidence in your responsibility to receive revelation from God on how to best run the church.

So rather than just asking the members of the church how they're doing church leadership is to seek revelation on the matter?  Seems simpler just to ask.

[The Nehor]

22 hours ago, gopher said:

I didn't have any concerns about the church ... until now.  My new list:

1. Stop using focus groups to develop policy.  Have some confidence in your responsibility to receive revelation from God on how to best run the church.

Or they could study it out in their mind by gathering all the information they can and do all they can to figure it out on their own and then ask the Lord if it is right as suggested in scripture.

[gopher]

21 hours ago, ksfisher said:

So rather than just asking the members of the church how they're doing church leadership is to seek revelation on the matter?  Seems simpler just to ask.

Using a pre-screened and hand-picked focus group may be helpful in marketing and politics for testing out your product or message, but seems out of place for the church.  It makes the church look like they are struggling to figure out what their message should be.  Maybe it would help if they added "of love" to soften it a bit, ie: "focus group of love".

From wikipedia: Jonathan Ive, Apple's senior vice president of industrial design, also said that Apple had found a good reason not to do focus groups: "They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products."

[ksfisher]

45 minutes ago, gopher said:

Using a pre-screened and hand-picked focus group may be helpful in marketing and politics for testing out your product or message, but seems out of place for the church.

I'm not sure why.  I think it makes it look like leadership cares about what you and I are thinking. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, gopher said:

Using a pre-screened and hand-picked focus group may be helpful in marketing and politics for testing out your product or message, but seems out of place for the church.  It makes the church look like they are struggling to figure out what their message should be.  Maybe it would help if they added "of love" to soften it a bit, ie: "focus group of love".

From wikipedia: Jonathan Ive, Apple's senior vice president of industrial design, also said that Apple had found a good reason not to do focus groups: "They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products."

So they are still using focus groups?

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Or they could study it out in their mind by gathering all the information they can and do all they can to figure it out on their own and then ask the Lord if it is right as suggested in scripture.

I have repeatedly sung the praises of my former bishop, who led our ward through revelation so effectively that our sacrament meeting attendance average tripled during his six-year tenure. He said his greatest frustration as bishop was members not wanting to tell him things. 'Revelation', he has said to me on many occasions, 'rarely occurs in a vacuum'.

Inherent in sustaining leaders is a willingness to provide them with the information that forms the building blocks of their pondering, praying and counselling together.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[gopher]

On 11/4/2019 at 3:43 PM, ksfisher said:

I'm not sure why.  I think it makes it look like leadership cares about what you and I are thinking. 

I applaud the church for wanting to reach out to doubters and complainers, but I'm a bit uneasy about using focus groups which are usually used to convince us to buy stuff we don't need or vote for people who are unqualified and incompetent.  But if the folks at church HQ think it will be helpful, I'm sure they know best.  I withdraw my objection.

[nuclearfuels]

On 11/3/2019 at 12:37 PM, gopher said:

I didn't have any concerns about the church ... until now.  My new list:

1. Stop using focus groups to develop policy.  Have some confidence in your responsibility to receive revelation from God on how to best run the church.

Good information leads to good inspiration, right?