Damien the Leper Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 6 hours ago, MustardSeed said: You don’t have any more authority to determine what’s a sin any more than you believe that the church has authority to say it is. Personally I think too much of anything is a real legit problem, regardless if you believe M will be punishable by God I'm merely suggesting that getting stressed out or expressing some sort of righteous indignation over personal and consensual sexual activity is pointless and useless.
Damien the Leper Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: I am not sure if it is or not but if it is a sin it is a minor one. Coupling it with porn makes it serious. We are going to start seeing the fallout of heavy high speed Internet porn use soon. I am doubtful it will look good. That's why I have Cox Contour and their highest speed internet. I better get a discount for that shameless plug of praise.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Valentinus said: Of course. Consensual acts are moral. The absurdity arises when someone tries to equate a consensual sexual relationship with that of an unethical sexual relationship or some type of sexual act outside human/human activity. How do you feel about consensual vore acts? If you do not know what vore is please.....for your own sanity.....DO NOT GOOGLE IT!
Tacenda Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Could the problem be the church? Their way of handling the porn issue, since there are so many in the church with the issue? Is it a dumb suggestion to say to the church to back off of these videos about porn? Back off of these constant talks? Is there the possibility that some that weren't interested or young enough not to know what porn means, to look it up and then it gets started? Or the question in bishop's interviews about the M word and the porn word, causing young youth to look into it and then try it and the next interview they confess and then it starts the shame game and it evolves into these addictions.
Calm Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Could the problem be the church? Their way of handling the porn issue, since there are so many in the church with the issue? Is it a dumb suggestion to say to the church to back off of these videos about porn? Back off of these constant talks? Is there the possibility that some that weren't interested or young enough not to know what porn means, to look it up and then it gets started? Or the question in bishop's interviews about the M word and the porn word, causing young youth to look into it and then try it and the next interview they confess and then it starts the shame game and it evolves into these addictions. Given the percentage of population of church members, I doubt church teachings about porn are affecting the nonmember population, so you need to explain what their issue is and why it is different than members. 2
Damien the Leper Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: How do you feel about consensual vore acts? If you do not know what vore is please.....for your own sanity.....DO NOT GOOGLE IT! I would say that those people need to get vaccinated and possibly consider reparative surgery and maybe get an appointment with Dr. Phil or Dr. Drew.
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Valentinus said: Consensual acts are moral. In no other area of human endeavour does everyone wanting to do something equal conclusive evidence of its morality. Edited June 26, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Is there the possibility that some that weren't interested or young enough not to know what porn means, to look it up and then it gets started? Average age of first porn exposure in my nation is 9. And that's an average. Think about the implications of that. 1
MustardSeed Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Calm said: Given the percentage of population of church members, I doubt church teachings about porn are affecting the nonmember population, so you need to explain what their issue is and why it is different than members. Many non lds are not distressed by their porn use. My experience is that LDS folks are highly troubled by any porn use, and that the word addiction is used very loosely.
Damien the Leper Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 34 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: In no other area of human endeavour does everyone wanting to do something equal conclusive evidence of its morality. Nor is it evidence of the contrary.
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, Valentinus said: Nor is it evidence of the contrary. Agreed. Note that I never stated or implied that consensual acts are immoral -- a claim that would have been as problematic as yours that 'Consensual acts are moral'. 1
Calm Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: Many non lds are not distressed by their porn use. My experience is that LDS folks are highly troubled by any porn use, and that the word addiction is used very loosely. If I had to choose between too careful and not careful enough when it came to porn and other potentially harmful sexual activities, I think I would vote for too careful even while realizing consequences of being overly concerned can be very problematic at times. For one thing, .I suspect it may be easier to move towards loosening up than it is to becoming more restrictive in one's sexual behaviour. Edited June 26, 2019 by Calm 2
Kenngo1969 Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 6 hours ago, The Nehor said: How do you feel about consensual vore acts? If you do not know what vore is please.....for your own sanity.....DO NOT GOOGLE IT!
Storm Rider Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 6 hours ago, Tacenda said: Could the problem be the church? Their way of handling the porn issue, since there are so many in the church with the issue? Is it a dumb suggestion to say to the church to back off of these videos about porn? Back off of these constant talks? Is there the possibility that some that weren't interested or young enough not to know what porn means, to look it up and then it gets started? Or the question in bishop's interviews about the M word and the porn word, causing young youth to look into it and then try it and the next interview they confess and then it starts the shame game and it evolves into these addictions. I have not seen any data that indicates the members of the Church have a more significant problem with porn than society at large. If I was guessing, I would say that it is less of a problem. That negative perspective is showing again. 1
changed Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 12:59 AM, Calm said: Helping addicts not hurt or to stop hurting others would be considered as a plus, I would think. Isn't it better to protect from getting hurt in the first place rather than providing the healing from pain later? Hurt in the first place? The support groups are damage control after the problem has started. When the damage is done support is needed for victims more than addicts, more than abusers.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Tacenda said: Could the problem be the church? Their way of handling the porn issue, since there are so many in the church with the issue? Is it a dumb suggestion to say to the church to back off of these videos about porn? Back off of these constant talks? Is there the possibility that some that weren't interested or young enough not to know what porn means, to look it up and then it gets started? Or the question in bishop's interviews about the M word and the porn word, causing young youth to look into it and then try it and the next interview they confess and then it starts the shame game and it evolves into these addictions. Some where there is some homebody sheltered homeschooled kid with no friends or internet at home that this might apply to but definitely not the norm and that kid is messed up anyways.
changed Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Storm Rider said: I have not seen any data that indicates the members of the Church have a more significant problem with porn than society at large. If I was guessing, I would say that it is less of a problem. That negative perspective is showing again. Utah is the #1 porn user... https://conquerseries.com/which-u-s-state-consumes-the-most-porn/ Utah is #1 child abuser: https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-has-high-rates-of-child-abuse-sex-abuse-of-children Edited June 26, 2019 by changed
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Just now, changed said: Hurt in the first place? The support groups are damage control after the problem has started. When the damage is done support is needed for victims more than addicts, more than abusers. These already exist. Most do not want support groups.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Just now, changed said: Utah is the #1 porm user... https://conquerseries.com/which-u-s-state-consumes-the-most-porn/ Nope, be careful in reading and generalizing. Utah is #1 in per capita porn subscriptions. That is kind of sad. Why do people pay for porn? Outside of very specific niche porn there no reason because there is tons of it. If I had to guess the niche it would be gay Mormon themed porn but that might just be me being mean. The subscription rate does shows an almost cute Utah naïveté about porn and says little to nothing about who is consuming the most porn in total. 1
Popular Post bluebell Posted June 26, 2019 Popular Post Posted June 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, changed said: Utah is the #1 porn user... https://conquerseries.com/which-u-s-state-consumes-the-most-porn/ Utah is #1 child abuser: https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-has-high-rates-of-child-abuse-sex-abuse-of-children That first link is really old. P. Hub doesn't even have Utah in it's top ten this year for states that watch the most P., which I know isn't a direct correlation because P. Hub didn't do the initial study but I don't think we can just assume that the ten year old study is still relevant. In my opinion, any porn usage is too much but I'm more interested in seeing how Utah is doing now than how they were doing ten years ago. Also, the second link does not say that Utah is the #1 child abuser. The article is about the rates of prosecuted and convicted sexual abuse in each state. As is stated by Carrie Jensen of Prevent Child Abuse "Utah has tougher laws than other states and may pursue child abuse more vigorously and that might help explain the high rates." 5
MustardSeed Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Calm said: If I had to choose between too careful and not careful enough when it came to porn and other potentially harmful sexual activities, I think I would vote for too careful even while realizing consequences of being overly concerned can be very problematic at times. For one thing, .I suspect it may be easier to move towards loosening up than it is to becoming more restrictive in one's sexual behaviour. I would assume that most compulsions begin in ones youth. Young people don’t think this way- if they did, we parents wouldn’t have so much grey hair at empty nest stage. 😕
MustardSeed Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 10 hours ago, Tacenda said: Could the problem be the church? Their way of handling the porn issue, since there are so many in the church with the issue? Is it a dumb suggestion to say to the church to back off of these videos about porn? Back off of these constant talks? Is there the possibility that some that weren't interested or young enough not to know what porn means, to look it up and then it gets started? Or the question in bishop's interviews about the M word and the porn word, causing young youth to look into it and then try it and the next interview they confess and then it starts the shame game and it evolves into these addictions. People are quick to shut you down, and yet I have wondered the same thing. We apparently have not succeeded in the church regarding curbing porn use. So whether it’s the churches fault per se or not, we aren’t doing things right yet. My bishop is a friend first and he was telling me of a guy who had life long porn behaviors and since he was not allowed to participate in the gospel he left, and when he left, the porn went away. ******Anecdotal to be sure but it got me thinking, and I’m still thinking.
The Nehor Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, bluebell said: That first link is really old. P. Hub doesn't even have Utah in it's top ten this year for states that watch the most P., which I know isn't a direct correlation because P. Hub didn't do the initial study but I don't think we can just assume that the ten year old study is still relevant. In my opinion, any porn usage is too much but I'm more interested in seeing how Utah is doing now than how they were doing ten years ago. Also, the second link does not say that Utah is the #1 child abuser. The article is about the rates of prosecuted and convicted sexual abuse in each state. As is stated by Carrie Jensen of Prevent Child Abuse "Utah has tougher laws than other states and may pursue child abuse more vigorously and that might help explain the high rates." Changed has a bad habit of giving simplified summaries of studies not supported by the linked data. 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: People are quick to shut you down, and yet I have wondered the same thing. We apparently have not succeeded in the church regarding curbing porn use. So whether it’s the churches fault per se or not, we aren’t doing things right yet. My bishop is a friend first and he was telling me of a guy who had life long porn behaviors and since he was not allowed to participate in the gospel he left, and when he left, the porn went away. ******Anecdotal to be sure but it got me thinking, and I’m still thinking. LDS porn consumption rates are way below the national average. I would argue that we have succeeded and are doing things right in a general sense. Stories like that recovery are not super rare. It is quite possible that something about church activity served as a psychological trigger or porn operated as some kind of coping mechanism or something of that nature. It does not mean the church did anything wrong. If someone uses porn to maladaptively self medicate for the stress of college life does that mean that the college is the problem? Edited June 26, 2019 by The Nehor 2
MustardSeed Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Nehor said: LDS porn consumption rates are way below the national average. I would argue that we have succeeded and are doing things right in a general sense. Cfr, and I question accuracy on self report . 1
Damien the Leper Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Agreed. Note that I never stated or implied that consensual acts are immoral -- a claim that would have been as problematic as yours that 'Consensual acts are moral'. Then perhaps "moral" is relative.
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