Church series on P*** use, 70 videos

[The Nehor]

37 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

This is patently false. Do the vast majority of people who commit sexual assault look at porn? Undoubtedly. Do most murderers eat meat? Yes! So what?

On the one hand we are told porn use has become an epidemic since the dawn of the internet. On the other hand rates of reported violent rape is also down. How does that work?

I think there are plenty of good reasons to oppose porn use, but this is not one of them. 

I would add exceptions for violent rape type porn and things like sexual snuff films and child pornography. All these have been linked to acting on them but two of the three are illegal and most porn consumers do not seek them out.

[The Nehor]

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have been in groups like that (when trying to find a good fit), wanted to talk more about what was wrong in their lives and how they felt damaged by others than on ways to first survive and then thrive.  There may be a time for the first kind of group, to express pain and anger, but if that is the main function eventually it may interfere with looking for ways to cope and improve one's life.

This is why support groups almost always need trained facilitators. A few groups (usually with strong leaders) avoid the pitfall naturally but generally you want someone with the ability to redirect after too much negativity and emotional venting. It is important to vent, especially at first, but eventually it can just turn into maladaptive gripe sessions that feel cathartic but it becomes habitual and its own kind of trap.

Edited June 27, 2019 by The Nehor

[BlueDreams]

1 hour ago, changed said:

 

Yea - I think most LDS couples have a warped sense of loyalty due to their justification of polygamy.  There are different kinds of marriages - some marriages are "open", while others prefer loyalty and fidelity.  I guess the LDs marriage does not call for fidelity, is a polygamous vow, so... I am learning most in the church do not really care or want a monogamous type of thing.  

 

I come from a different background - fidelity is very important to me.  As the temple vows are not public, I did not know Mormon marriages did not include "fidelity" as part of the wedding vow.  Live and learn I guess.  

I was a temple worker up until the birth of my daughter for 7 years. That is absolutely ridiculous. But it's all I'll say on that part of this, because it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. 

You may think whatever you like. It does not make it true or even an accurate depiction of reality. I work with this population and often on this very issue at hand. In no way have I seen any indication of what you describe here as even remotely describing the LDS couples I see. 

 

With luv,

BD

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I was a temple worker up until the birth of my daughter for 7 years. That is absolutely ridiculous. But it's all I'll say on that part of this, because it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. 

You may think whatever you like. It does not make it true or even an accurate depiction of reality. I work with this population and often on this very issue at hand. In no way have I seen any indication of what you describe here as even remotely describing the LDS couples I see. 

 

With luv,

BD

[MustardSeed]

3 hours ago, changed said:

 

Yea - I think most LDS couples have a warped sense of loyalty due to their justification of polygamy.  There are different kinds of marriages - some marriages are "open", while others prefer loyalty and fidelity.  I guess the LDs marriage does not call for fidelity, is a polygamous vow, so... I am learning most in the church do not really care or want a monogamous type of thing.  

 

I come from a different background - fidelity is very important to me.  As the temple vows are not public, I did not know Mormon marriages did not include "fidelity" as part of the wedding vow.  Live and learn I guess.  

Sometimes it can feel like everyone is having an affair.  But I assure you, not everyone is.... and some have been through it and you would never know.  

Those who heal it correctly can end up with really strong relationships, though I wouldn’t recommend it.  It’s a refiners fire that is very painful to endure. 

 

One thing i dislike about this site is the quick denial of others’ realities without gathering more info about the persons point of view.  Unless someone is legit mentally ill there is likely at least an element of truth to a persons perspective.  If your experience is that LDS don’t value fidelity, I’m curious about what you’ve experienced.  

Edited June 28, 2019 by MustardSeed

[The Nehor]

I get depressed at the idea that about half of marriages end in divorce and then remember all those crazy people who have 5 or 6 disastrous marriages skewing the odds and then I feel better.  

[changed]

2 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I was a temple worker up until the birth of my daughter for 7 years. That is absolutely ridiculous. But it's all I'll say on that part of this, because it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. 

You may think whatever you like. It does not make it true or even an accurate depiction of reality. I work with this population and often on this very issue at hand. In no way have I seen any indication of what you describe here as even remotely describing the LDS couples I see. 

 

With luv,

BD

You are the one stated porn use is no big deal for most Mormon couples - from sermon on the mount, and a more traditional Christian viewpoint, "whosoever looketh... has committed adultery"    ... dc132 - the new mormon covenant is polygamous - 132 is polygamy, and I guess that is all I will say about the temple.  Those who live with polygamy as part of their definition of being faithful?  Adultery/porn/open non- monogomous relationships are what heaven is all about so... I guess for that type of mindset, porn is no biggie.  That is what I am reading from quite a few on this thread.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I get depressed at the idea that about half of marriages end in divorce and then remember all those crazy people who have 5 or 6 disastrous marriages skewing the odds and then I feel better.

This. A certain woman in our stake just divorced her third husband. She was sealed to the first and third ones. I’ve spent a good bit of time with ex-husband no. 3 in a ministering role. He’s nearly been destroyed by this woman. 

Yesterday she sent me a message to let me know her divorce had been finalised and to ask if I wanted to go to lunch next week.

Yeah, right. Cos who wouldn’t jump at the chance to be ex-husband no. 4???

[bsjkki]

4 hours ago, changed said:

 

 I am learning most in the church do not really care or want a monogamous type of thing.  

 

 

Huh? I am very confused by this comment. The only members of the church that I know that do not believe in fidelity and monogamy, are those who are not practicing their faith. I have never run into a practicing member of the church who  thinks an open marriage is a "thing" sanctioned or that fidelity is not a part of their marriage covenant. SMH 

[Bernard Gui]

23 hours ago, changed said:

 

Look up the number of support groups for abusers in your area, and then look at the number of groups for victims.  It is about 3 to 1, 3 groups for abusers to only 1 group for victims.  Why is this?  

My experience is not definitive, but I have found that many, many people do not attend because of unneeded shame or embarrassment.

Also, groups are formed as people ask for them.

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, changed said:

9 years?  ... My grandparents were married 75 years - I would trust data from them... (my grandparents were not religious, and yet loved one another more than any other I know).  

I honestly think the polygamous history of the church - even if in the past - has quite a few still fantasizing about having multiple partners, and justifying adultery.  

I consider polygamy to be adultery.  

Have you considered this?

Quote

Brigham Young April 1861

If the plurality of wives is to pander to the low passions of men and women, the sooner it is abolished the better. “How far would you go in abolishing it?” I would say, if the Lord should reveal that it is his will to go so far as to become a Shaking Quaker [celibate], Amen to it, and let the sexes have no connection. If so far as for a man to have but one wife, let it be so. The word and will of the Lord is what I want—the will and mind of God. He has revealed his mind and will. The time is coming when the Lord is going to raise up a holy nation. He will bring up a royal Priesthood upon the earth, and he has introduced a plurality of wives for that express purpose, and not to gratify lustful passion in the least. I would rather take my valise in my hand today, and never see a wife or a child again, and preach the Gospel until I go into the grave, than to live as I do, unless God commands it. I never entered into the order of plurality of wives to gratify passion. And were I now asked whether I desired and wanted another wife, my reply would be, It should be one by whom the Spirit will bring forth noble children. I am almost sixty years old; and if I now live for passion, I pray the Lord Almighty to take my life from the earth.

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[BlueDreams]

1 hour ago, changed said:

You are the one stated porn use is no big deal for most Mormon couples - from sermon on the mount, and a more traditional Christian viewpoint, "whosoever looketh... has committed adultery"    ... dc132 - the new mormon covenant is polygamous - 132 is polygamy, and I guess that is all I will say about the temple.  Those who live with polygamy as part of their definition of being faithful?  Adultery/porn/open non- monogomous relationships are what heaven is all about so... I guess for that type of mindset, porn is no biggie.  That is what I am reading from quite a few on this thread.

 

That is not what i said, changed. That may be what you read into my words, but that’s not what I actually said. This is what i did say: 

“The effect p*rn has on a relationship is heavily dependent on how the couple view and interact with the p*rn. Some spouses do not feel betrayed at all. Some do initially experience it as a marital betrayal. Most are somewhere in the middle.”

“The effect p*rn had on the relationship is not the same from couple to couple based largely on how they view their spouse’s p*rn problem and the ramifications for said problem in their marriage. I have had several couples who are well differentiated, recognize the problem as their partner’s issue to work through, and where there overall relationship is good or positively growing”

please show me where i said porn is no big deal to lds couples. Pointing out a diverse set of experience is not the same as giving a blanket shrug into porn. And it sure as heck is not some form of celestial endorsement. I don’t know who you’re dialoguing with when you’re stating these assertions from my posts, but it is definitely not me. I have never -and will never - make the assertions you’re associating to me and my faith. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, changed said:

That is what I am reading from quite a few on this thread.

No, this is what you are reading into posts, not what is written or intended, I bet. 

You need to ask yourself why so many are saying you misread them. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Calm

[BlueDreams]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

One thing i dislike about this site is the quick denial of others’ realities without gathering more info about the persons point of view.  Unless someone is legit mentally ill there is likely at least an element of truth to a persons perspective.  If your experience is that LDS don’t value fidelity, I’m curious about what you’ve experienced.

Even with those who are mentally ill there is often an understandable reason for their perspective. This doesn’t excuse faulty reasoning and projecting one’s assumptions about a whole group of people onto another. I would call that out in real life as I would here because maintaining said assumptions can inadvertently damage relationships and maintain the false beliefs about a group. If I assumed some negative attribute about a whole religion and its believers...say catholics or muslims or anyone really....it wouldnt be right or okay no matter where that belief derived from. I would hope someone would call me out on that and point out where my beliefs were untrue or even hurtful. I would hope someone would set me straight when I am promoting a black and white and negative caricature of a whole group of people. 

 

That’s simply not okay. No matter where it’s coming from.

 

with luv, 

BD

 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This. A certain woman in our stake just divorced her third husband. She was sealed to the first and third ones. I’ve spent a good bit of time with ex-husband no. 3 in a ministering role. He’s nearly been destroyed by this woman. 

Yesterday she sent me a message to let me know her divorce had been finalised and to ask if I wanted to go to lunch next week.

Yeah, right. Cos who wouldn’t jump at the chance to be ex-husband no. 4???

Is she wealthy? If so I will take a turn.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Is she wealthy? If so I will take a turn.

She lives on the dole in a council house with some of her seven ill-mannered children. But she's also thin and willowy; has long, straight, black hair; and dresses like someone who is wealthy and reads fashion magazines. That seems to be enough for certain men. At least in the beginning ...

Still keen?

[Bernard Gui]

14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t think it’s helpful to refer to peripheral family members as victims when another family member watches porn. 

It’s really the porn persons issue, and has nothing to do with the other people. 

 

The real betrayal is in the lies and dishonesty.

Bust the shame and poof- no more need for lies. The issue becomes one individuals struggle. 

One thing we try to overcome in our groups is the notion that we are victims. Even so, there is still much work to be done for healing. 

 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Is she wealthy? If so I will take a turn.  

I’m ‘er eighth old man, I’m ‘Enery, ‘Enery the eighth I am, I am......

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

Even with those who are mentally ill there is often an understandable reason for their perspective. This doesn’t excuse faulty reasoning and projecting one’s assumptions about a whole group of people onto another. I would call that out in real life as I would here because maintaining said assumptions can inadvertently damage relationships and maintain the false beliefs about a group. If I assumed some negative attribute about a whole religion and its believers...say catholics or muslims or anyone really....it wouldnt be right or okay no matter where that belief derived from. I would hope someone would call me out on that and point out where my beliefs were untrue or even hurtful. I would hope someone would set me straight when I am promoting a black and white and negative caricature of a whole group of people. 

 

That’s simply not okay. No matter where it’s coming from.

 

with luv, 

BD

 

The accusation seems extreme and unfounded enough that I assume there is more to Changed’s story. 

Not sure why folks are so riled up by the assertion , honestly.  It’s as if she said Mormons are all blue. 

Im curious.  

[Bernard Gui]

14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Beautiful! 

Shame runs deep in our culture *****IMO*****.  I don’t blame God or the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  It’s our humanness that is responsible imo.

If we can shrink shame, more people would attend. Imo. 

Secrecy fuels shame,  shame fuels acting out, acting out fuels secrecy in a shame based society, vicious cycle. 

People leave the church so not to feel shame.  What can be done to provide an alternative? 

Feeling shame is part of the process. It’s gotta be dealt with before anything else works. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

She lives on the dole in a council house with some of her seven ill-mannered children. But she's also thin and willowy; has long, straight, black hair; and dresses like someone who is wealthy and reads fashion magazines. That seems to be enough for certain men. At least in the beginning ...

Still keen?

 

[Meerkat]

10 hours ago, changed said:

 

It is a support group where both addicts and family members are supposed to come?  I would feel very uncomfortable in a mixed group like that.

Wish I had a support group where I am.

Go to addictionrecovery.lds.org.  They have a meeting finder there.  If there is not one nearby, you can search for a phone group meeting.  I agree with Bro. Gui.  Those who attend the meetings are truly blessed.  Unfortunately, there are precious few who attend on the family side, in our area.

10 hours ago, changed said:

It is a support group where both addicts and family members are supposed to come?  I would feel very uncomfortable in a mixed group like that.

Wish I had a support group where I am.

We attend a meeting for family members.  There is a separate one for those who suffer from the compulsive behavior (addiction.) 

The reason there are fewer meetings for family members is the shame/embarrassment factor, in my opinion.  Many in the Church who suffer from the actual addiction are so motivated to change, they will attend their meeting regardless of their shame or embarrassment.  When they experience the benefits, I’ve heard some say they don’t care who knows.  They just want to help some other child of God find their way out too.  I say “Lord, bless them.”

Edited June 28, 2019 by Meerkat

[Calm]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

It’s as if she said Mormons are all blue. 

OTOH, you call the accusation extreme and unfounded. OTOH, you seem to see it as trivial. 

It is confusing. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

 

My thoughts exactly. No doubt certain members would tell me, ‘And this is why you’re still single!’

[changed]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

A lighter approach is probably better but I think you go too far off the other side of the horse by trivializing it. When they screw up the best response is probably a hug and a show of support as opposed to a solemn conversation (though these need to happen too especially in the beginning).

One of the keys to defeating porn is to try to remove the conception that  the porn user’s use means the spouse is not enough. The impulses for porn and for a healthy marital sex life come from two different places. It is true the former can poison or eclipse the latter (and that is probably doom) but it also poisons a lot of other relationships and the user themself. If the spouse can hold on to their self confidence and not see porn as competition they will be happier, more confident, and more able to help if that is the path they choose to take. Too often the spouse’s response is to shut down, hide, and just hurt and I do not blame them for doing so. If the user is trying to repent and the spouse can hold on to themselves the prognosis is good.

If the user just hides it, only confesses because they were caught and fear the consequences of possible divorce, and tries to justify or normalize it or drag the spouse in......that will not end well.

Whenever I am tempted to trivialize porn use I think of a friend who got married to a guy while I was on my mission. Vivacious, fun, deeply spiritual, and full of life and a very compassionate girl. When I got back she seemed so broken. It took a while before I could figure out what happened but She eventually told me her husband was a clinical addict and would routinely pull up extreme videos and insist they watch them together and act them out. He started slow but kept escalating despite her resistance and pleas. She was not sure whether to feel relieved or rejected when his porn consumption all but completely ended their intimate life. She felt worthless and humiliated. Eventually she did divorce him and moved back to live with her family. I hope she is doing better now. This was an extreme case involving bonafide addiction and not a common case but still, porn can ruin lives and even if it does not ruin them completely, it sucks joy out of life. 

As a single guy I can also report that there are a disturbing number of female profiles on LDS dating sites that have a “no porn” proviso. Not hard to guess the history there.

 

I know several women like this - and yes, those "caught red-handed" vs. those who willingly go in... quite a difference there.

 

A few articles on porn use:

http://truthaboutporn.org/study

"persons who viewed pornography were more than twice as likely as those who did not view pornography to experience a divorce, even after controlling for marital happiness and sexual satisfaction as well as relevant sociodemographic correlates."

Consumption of pornography was associated with greater acceptance of objectification of women, which in turn was associated with greater rape myth acceptance and more frequent acts of sexual deception.

https://truthaboutporn.org/study/?sf_paged=2

• Online-pornography use was significantly positively associated with an anxious partner attachment pattern in couple relationships.
•  
• https://truthaboutporn.org/study/?sf_paged=4
• pornography consumption was associated with lower interpersonal satisfaction
•  
• Pornography use was the second strongest predictor of marital quality in the study.
•  
•  
• https://truthaboutporn.org/study/?sf_paged=5
• This review article found that dozens of studies have shown that that pornography can reduce relationship satisfaction.
• This review article found that multiple studies have shown that pornography use reduces couple commitment.
• Pornography was found to increase the acceptance of infidelity.

• The use of pornography was linked to reduced relationship stability.
• Pornography use was found to be associated with lower sexual desire in couple relationships.

• The probability of divorce nearly doubled for married Americans who began pornography use.

• Analyses revealed that men’s frequency of pornography use was positively linked to poor body image.
• This study found that pornography use was associated with poorer romantic attachment in couple relationships