changed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 6 hours ago, MustardSeed said: The accusation seems extreme and unfounded enough that I assume there is more to Changed’s story. Not sure why folks are so riled up by the assertion , honestly. It’s as if she said Mormons are all blue. Im curious. I have shared my story on here before... have 3 people in my family who are in jail due to porn use followed by abuse. I left Mormonism due to abuse from those who are in authority, and how this abuse was handled. (In fact it was not handled - abuser was enabled, years and years and years of unchecked abuse at the hands of bishopric.
mrmarklin Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 4 hours ago, changed said: I have shared my story on here before... have 3 people in my family who are in jail due to porn use followed by abuse. I left Mormonism due to abuse from those who are in authority, and how this abuse was handled. (In fact it was not handled - abuser was enabled, years and years and years of unchecked abuse at the hands of bishopric. No question pron is a problem. Hence the 70 videos. If they help even one person, it will have been worth it. It is pervasive, and even with heavy protections on my Grandkids iPads, they still see inappropriate things from time to time. In my experience, and I have reason to know, the Church's handling of those that abuse authority in their positions in the Church is fairly absolute in cauterizing the wound. This may have been less so 30 or so years ago when "repentance" was blindly accepted by higher ups. I don't think that is the case today. The church has learned a lot about these problems, particularly as it has expanded outside the Mormon corridor. I'm sorry your experience was other than this. 2
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, changed said: I have shared my story on here before... have 3 people in my family who are in jail due to porn use followed by abuse. I left Mormonism due to abuse from those who are in authority, and how this abuse was handled. (In fact it was not handled - abuser was enabled, years and years and years of unchecked abuse at the hands of bishopric. Well then no wonder you would have your point of view. Im sure you often feel as though no one is listening, perhaps making general statements like the one you made is a way of histrionically shaking up things so that people hear you. I do that myself with my husband when I’m super mad about something. But here, you’re gonna get nailed. I can’t even say “hey I notice that this happens, does anyone else notice it” and if it’s something that isn’t flattering I’m gonna get a wall of “nope, I’ve never seen that” here. I really do disagree with you that in general LDS people are against fidelity. I have known scads of lds folks who have cheated, and I have known a handful of lds folks who were swingers, but not more Percentage wise than the number of non members I know. It is my opinion that anyone given the right environment is capable of betrayal. We must all be careful with boundaries. Edited June 28, 2019 by MustardSeed
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 Ps are your family members in jail for the porn use or for the abuse? Do you know anyone who has used porn all their lives but was not violent?
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Calm said: OTOH, you call the accusation extreme and unfounded. OTOH, you seem to see it as trivial. It is confusing. Sure I can see how it’s confusing. Let me clarify. I don’t agree at all with Changed’s assertion that LDS people do not value fidelity. Im not defensive about her statement at all because in truth I don’t believe even she really thinks that. But I hear something in her that I am trying to be careful with.
Tacenda Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 56 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Ps are your family members in jail for the porn use or for the abuse? Do you know anyone who has used porn all their lives but was not violent? I wonder if Ted Bundy's blaming the murders on all of those women, really stemmed from his porn use. I use to highly doubt it, but dunno.
Calm Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: hey I notice that this happens, does anyone else notice it” and if it’s something that isn’t flattering I’m gonna get a wall of “nope, I’ve never seen that” here. If you ask people if they have noticed it and they haven’t, do you want them to lie so you feel validated? Or is the problem that they respond if they differ? I don’t understand the issue (since you ask for others to report their experiences) unless you think people are lying about their experience and they know of similar things that you have experienced in your life Do you not consider it possible that they have experienced something different than you? Edited June 28, 2019 by Calm 2
Calm Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I wonder if Ted Bundy's blaming the murders on all of those women, really stemmed from his porn use. I use to highly doubt it, but dunno. Behaviour isn’t that simple to have one cause. If that was the only cause, there would be tons more serial killers out there. It may have contributed to the form of it, but triggering the killing had to take a special kind of twisted view of others. 3
The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 7 hours ago, changed said: I have shared my story on here before... have 3 people in my family who are in jail due to porn use followed by abuse. I left Mormonism due to abuse from those who are in authority, and how this abuse was handled. (In fact it was not handled - abuser was enabled, years and years and years of unchecked abuse at the hands of bishopric. I would encourage you to tell your story if you want. It would probably get a better reception then the extreme snippets you tell that often do not fit in the threads they show in. Not sure if that would violate the “no personal threads” rule but if you make it about why you want some changes it would probably work. I would read it. 3
The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: I can’t even say “hey I notice that this happens, does anyone else notice it” and if it’s something that isn’t flattering I’m gonna get a wall of “nope, I’ve never seen that” here. It is a psychological experiment. We are all gaslighting you. 1
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It is a psychological experiment. We are all gaslighting you.
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 Just now, MustardSeed said: 10 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It is a psychological experiment. We are all gaslighting you. My introduction to this site was pretty rough.
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 32 minutes ago, Calm said: Do you not consider it possible that they have experienced something different than you? I’m positive you don’t think I’m so daft- of course there are going to be things we all experience differently. I suspect that there is a high need to defend the church here due to the regularity of dissent. I find it strange that simple observations are quickly denied on a regular basis. It seems as though there is an agenda rather than openness. I may be wrong but the pattern I see is evident “to me.”
The Nehor Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: It seems as though there is an agenda rather than openness. I may be wrong but the pattern I see is evident “to me.”
Calm Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I find it strange that simple observations are quickly denied on a regular basis. It seems as though there is an agenda rather than openness. I may be wrong but the pattern I see is evident “to me.” I think you have misconceptions about the board. Long term posters have had many of these conversations before, yes, so it isn’t a “quickly denied” but more of repetition or extension of something they have said before when they are asked by you for their experience. But people are also always asking others to share experiences and that sharing seems to me more the driver of posts than defending the Church A few posters get frustrated as far as I can tell because there isn’t enough defending on the site (unless I misunderstand them) in fact. Biases certainly may play into how people perceive things, but I doubt anyone is intentionally being deceptive just to defend the Church. Rather that is their actual experience because that is how they perceive things. And very few posters have not relayed something of their own negative experiences in the Church. I can’t remember one prolific poster who hasn’t off the top of my head. There are a few who tend to strongly defend the Church to I assume defend the Church (post for that purpose), but for most I suspect when their comments defend the Church it is as a side effect and they are simply, honestly sharing their own experiences. Most critics seem to be doing the same to me, honestly sharing personal experiences expressed through their own perceptions to share those experiences rather than to attack the Church Some may say other things that attack the Church, but I don’t see them as warping their experiences intentionally to make the Church look bad in most cases. Perhaps I am projecting, but that is how I perceive the exchanges on the board. Edited June 29, 2019 by Calm 2
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You are being rude.
thatjimguy Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 The reason there are 70+ videos is just like having so many talks at General Conference. No one really captures everything that was said...it's too much. However, throughout all the styles and stories, one or two will reach you. With pornography being such a problem, it is important that we reach those who wish to recover. We gotta throw a million dodgeballs at it. Anyone can dodge one. 3
Kenngo1969 Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I’m positive you don’t think I’m so daft- of course there are going to be things we all experience differently. I suspect that there is a high need to defend the church here due to the regularity of dissent. I find it strange that simple observations are quickly denied on a regular basis. It seems as though there is an agenda rather than openness. I may be wrong but the pattern I see is evident “to me.” There's a difference between someone saying simply, "I have not experienced [x]" in response to your declaration, "I have experienced [x]," on the one hand, and their saying, "I don't believe you have experienced [x]," on the other hand. As Cal said, if you expect people to deny their own experiences simply to validate yours, I wouldn't hold your breath. Someone else simply saying that they've experienced something different than what you've experienced isn't intended as "non-validation." (And yes, you're right, if someone says, "I don't believe you have experienced [x]," that's wrong, non-validating, what-have-you, but I think it's much more common for someone simply to share his own, different, experience.) Edited June 28, 2019 by Kenngo1969 1
MustardSeed Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: There's a difference between someone saying simply, "I have not experienced [x]" in response to your declaration, "I have experienced [x]," on the one hand, and their saying, "I don't believe you have experienced [x]," on the other hand. Well funny enough, that was my welcome to this site. 😕 i would never expect anyone to lie and say they have experienced what I have just to validate me . Edited June 28, 2019 by MustardSeed
Kenngo1969 Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Well funny enough, that was my welcome to this site. 😕 i would never expect anyone to lie and say they have experienced what I have just to validate me . Then it was wrong. Had I seen it, I would have defended you, and would have pointed out the same distinction I discussed in my previous post ("I haven't experienced [x]," versus "I don't believe you have experienced [x]") and would have encouraged the conversation to proceed along the lines of the former rather than the latter.
alter idem Posted June 28, 2019 Posted June 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: I wonder if Ted Bundy's blaming the murders on all of those women, really stemmed from his porn use. I use to highly doubt it, but dunno. Pornography didn't cause him to be a serial sexual murderer--but it would have contributed. He had proclivities and his pornography use encouraged his fantasies and escalated his behavior. 2
Popular Post alter idem Posted June 28, 2019 Popular Post Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I’m positive you don’t think I’m so daft- of course there are going to be things we all experience differently. I suspect that there is a high need to defend the church here due to the regularity of dissent. I find it strange that simple observations are quickly denied on a regular basis. It seems as though there is an agenda rather than openness. I may be wrong but the pattern I see is evident “to me.” I have observed what I think you are trying to explain. I've seen posters make an observation, which is negative toward the church/members and they will get a number of posters say that it is not so. My own experience is that the observation is often correct, but not it is not as commonplace as the poster is claiming and is an example of behavior that is not taught or encouraged within the church, but is anecdotal of some people or areas. An example would be a discussion we had on congratulating members on callings received. I have observed this, but it's not encouraged or taught--it is some particular individuals who give away their own private perceptions that they believe some callings are prestigious or desirable and deserve congratulations. It also is something that is cultural and most likely to happen in certain places and not in others. 5
alter idem Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/27/2019 at 3:55 PM, changed said: Yea - I think most LDS couples have a warped sense of loyalty due to their justification of polygamy. There are different kinds of marriages - some marriages are "open", while others prefer loyalty and fidelity. I guess the LDs marriage does not call for fidelity, is a polygamous vow, so... I am learning most in the church do not really care or want a monogamous type of thing. I come from a different background - fidelity is very important to me. As the temple vows are not public, I did not know Mormon marriages did not include "fidelity" as part of the wedding vow. Live and learn I guess. Changed, your own negative examples and experiences have unfairly biased your perceptions against church members. I think a lot of us, including me, who are sealed to spouses would be shocked by your suggestion that we don't care about fidelity and think it's not important. I think it's also an unfair accusation to make against the early church members who practiced polygamy. Even polygamists believed in being faithful to their spouses and monogamy has been the church teaching which has been upheld for almost 130 years now. People are often excommunicated for not being faithful in their marriages. 3
Calm Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 3 hours ago, thatjimguy said: The reason there are 70+ videos is just like having so many talks at General Conference. No one really captures everything that was said...it's too much. However, throughout all the styles and stories, one or two will reach you. With pornography being such a problem, it is important that we reach those who wish to recover. We gotta throw a million dodgeballs at it. Anyone can dodge one. I suspect the thought was also people might watch them to focus on other things or strengthen resolve when tempted. With so many, it will hopefully not become so repetitive as to lose the ability to get one's attention.
Calm Posted June 29, 2019 Posted June 29, 2019 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: Well funny enough, that was my welcome to this site. Thankfully that is relatively uncommon these days imo (most longterm posters are careful in phrasing not only out of politeness, but because threads get closed or posters banned when others start calling posters liars, etc. though of course that might not immediately happen as mods aren't here on occasion a day or two at a time) . I was rather shocked when that happened to you and in a persistent manner. The poster appeared to have misread your post though given somethings he criticized and that may have contributed to an initial impression that seemed to persist and bleed into other areas in that thread.
Recommended Posts