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Church has become the only place where some of these women experience what they consider to be discrimination


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21 minutes ago, cdowis said:

1. As an outside observer the top 15 men of the Church give no impression of being anything more than 15 older men behind the times and making serious mistake.
Yawn

Why God calls prophets in our day
https://youtu.be/5MMfh-0XzqQ
2. They are completely wrong on the LGBT issue
See above

 

3. He wouldn’t let his daughter work in the Smith Home knowing what he does
OK.  I have four daughters, and would have no problem, knowing what I know.

4. The Book of Abraham in a vacuum is deeply in favor of the critics conclusion
Just curious, how many of the critics have a {hD in Egyptology from UCLA.  Please share with us their credentials by name.

Anyway ==>>

Kerry Muhlestein,. PhD in Egyptology at UCLA talks about recent research on the Book of Abraham.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRzU6C5Wb8U
https://youtu.be/gCH529IgDrY
https://youtu.be/6EHKY1NUmcg?t=1m10s
He has a playlist of 15 videos on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRzU6C5Wb8U

Dr. Muhlestein's credentials == 
PhD in Egyptology at UCLA
Chairman of a national committee for the American Research Center in Egypt and serves on their Research Supporting Member Council.
He has also served on a committee for the Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities, and currently serves on their Board of Trustees and as a Vice President of the organization.

Senior Fellow of the William F. Albright Institute for Archaeological Research.

Participating with the International Association of Egyptologists, and has worked with Educational Testing Services on their AP World History test. He gave a presentation at the international Egyptological conference in Moscow held in the fall of 2009.

Published articles in professional journals including the UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology.
A sampling of Dr. Muhlestein’s other Egyptological work includes: “Binding with Heraldic Plants,” in Proceedings of the Ninth International Congress of Egyptologists, 2 vols., ed. Jean-Claude Goyon and Christine Cardin (Leuven: Uitgeverij Peeters en Department Oosterse Studies, 2007), 1335–41; “Empty Threats? How Egyptians’ Self-Ontology Affect the Way We Read Many Texts,” JSSEA 34 (2007): 115–30; “Execration Ritual,” in UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology, ed. Jacco Dieleman and Willeke Wendrich (Los Angeles, Cali.: UCLA, 2008), online athttp://digital2.library.ucla.edu/viewItem.do?ark=21198/zz000s3mqr (Accessed February 27, 2013); “Royal Executions: Evidence Bearing on the Subject of Sanctioned Killing in the Middle Kingdom,” in The Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient, 51/2 (2008): 181–208; “Teaching Egyptian History: Some Discipline-Specific Pedagogical Notes,” in The Journal of Egyptian History, 2/1–2 (2009): 173–231.

5. Priesthood blessings to an outside observer have no more power to heal than the healing rituals of any other system
I am waiting to hear your point.

6. Joseph lacked integrity and fidelity with Emma
I would agree that she had an issue with polygamy and he felt it best to avoid detailed discussions of this subject for the sake of marital harmony.  She was knowledgeable of the practice.  I disagree with your description of his character we each will be held accountable before the bar of God on our relationship with the Prophets called by God.

7. The Church teaches us to harm others at times (prop 8, miracle of forgiveness, LGBT policies)
May I suggest that you become closely acquainted with the scriptures.  They can indeed be painful those who are deeply involved in sin.

 

Interesting comments, but wrong thread.

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It is very true that women are discriminated in the Church.  They can't hold high callings, unlike the Community of Christ.  They can't tell those with high callings what to do.  They can't even hold lower administrative callings.  That's apparent. 

I run a law firm where most of my lawyers are women.  It just worked out that way.  The most qualified candidates for my law firm just happened to be women.  

But, the discrimination we see in the Church is, at present, the Lord's discrimination . 

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1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

It is very true that women are discriminated in the Church.  They can't hold high callings, unlike the Community of Christ.  They can't tell those with high callings what to do.  They can't even hold lower administrative callings.  That's apparent. 

I run a law firm where most of my lawyers are women.  It just worked out that way.  The most qualified candidates for my law firm just happened to be women.  

But, the discrimination we see in the Church is, at present, the Lord's discrimination . 

Like the law, religious discussions often are filled with citation and quotations from those with authority.  While it's possible to find many exceptional quotes from LDS women none of their teaching carry the weight of authority.  While it's possible to quote a modern prophet or apostle statements as having greater authority than one of their predecessors it's not possible to use a woman's statement the same way.  It will be a good day when that is no longer the case. 

Phaedrus 

Edited by phaedrus ut
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1 minute ago, Rain said:

Maybe you haven't considered it because you see it all around you? I still see it in life outside the church from men who are not members. My daughter, who is 20, sees it. I'm honestly surprised there are enough millennials only seeing it in church to show up in Jana's study enough to comment on. It seriously happens a lot outside the church to a varying degree so I'm not sure how they are not experiencing it. 

Maybe I didn't make it clear in my first post. I see it but I was surprised to see that for some of these women it remained the last situation in there life where they were experiencing sexism.  The fact that sexism wasn't in the other parts of their life is a positive. 

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17 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

Maybe I didn't make it clear in my first post. I see it but I was surprised to see that for some of these women it remained the last situation in there life where they were experiencing sexism.  The fact that sexism wasn't in the other parts of their life is a positive. 

I totally agree it is a positive thing if they are not experiencing it out of church. I, and my daughter, just experience enough outside of church that I have a hard time believing that many millennials are not experiencing it. 

But maybe it is a matter if definition? On my other board I discovered some people believe aomething is not persecution unless lives are in danger. Maybe the millenials in the study don't feel something is sexism or discrimination unless it is happening at a greater degree rather than subtle discrimination?

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Sexism occurs in church for sure but I don’t feel it very much.  I’m used to it and have accepted it for better or worse. Why can’t the RS president sit on the stand in sacrament? Who would it kill?  Meh, who cares.  What’s for dinner?

Even last time I was in Sunday school I heard it again.... class discussion dominated by men and a woman finally contributed but began her comments with the female apology “I just wanted to say...”  

 

Guess what, sexism is everywhere.  In Puerto Rico last week I paid all the dinner bills but my husband was handed all the receipts.  My husband pointed it out.  That’s my validation, and it’s all I need.  But we have a long ways to go for power imbalance to work itself out. 

 

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5 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

 

The good part is these women don't actually need you to believe them.  They get to speak their own truth. 

Phaedrus 

Truth is knowledge of how things were, how they are, and how they are to come.

Truth is not subjective.  We don't get our own.  Truth simply is.

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1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

Truth is knowledge of how things were, how they are, and how they are to come.

Truth is not subjective.  We don't get our own.  Truth simply is.

Ah but opinions on what truth is, is subjective! So since that’s all we have, it does well to respect each other’s opinions of what the truth is. 

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6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Considering how women are discriminated against generally in society I find it surprising they would pick the church as their bogeyman and not their employers or the people they date or how they are treated socially, and the like.

The Church is the only thing that exists on this earth that can pave the way for women to be exalted.  Wealth and power beyond understanding for all eternity.  Secular organizations and government can give women and social standing.  It can give them awards to put on their wall but once these women die, what do they have?  Nobody will care in the spirit world.   I am all for more equality in the work place but perspective needs to always be front and center.  The kingdom of God is not a democracy nor are initiative voted on for change.  God rules the kingdom and makes the rules.

Edited by carbon dioxide
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18 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Ah but opinions on what truth is, is subjective! So since that’s all we have, it does well to respect each other’s opinions of what the truth is. 

Then call it opinion. 

Saying everyone has their "own truth" implies it is the truth that is varying.  It is our ability/inability to determine truth that varies.

There is only one truth.  Things as they actually exist.

 

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17 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

The Church is the only thing that exists on this earth that can pave the way for women to be exalted.  Wealth and power beyond understanding for all eternity.  Secular organizations and government can give women and social standing.  It can give them awards to put on their wall but once these women die, what do they have?  Nobody will care in the spirit world.   I am all for more equality in the work place but perspective needs to always be front and center.  The kingdom of God is not a democracy nor are initiative voted on for change.  God rules the kingdom and makes the rules.

I do not disagree but I suspect some of the rules will be changing soon as we move towards Zion.

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6 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

Unfortunately sexism and gender discrimination has been bad in many societies but I think the trend has been moving against this for a century.  In the secular world not only is discrimination based upon sex highly unethical but probably illegal.  I hadn't considered the perspective of a woman enjoying a life free from discrimination because of her gender everywhere but within the organization of the church.  

Unfortunately Utah ranks dead last in salary equality for women.   https://www.aauw.org/resource/gender-pay-gap-by-state-and-congressional-district/

In a wallethub survey they ranked Utah #50 with highest women's disparity (Education & Health)

Education & Health – Total Points: 33.33
*Disparity in Advanced Educational Attainment
*Disparity in Math Test Scores
*Disparity in Doctor-Visit Affordability
 

Anyway the surveys must be wrong.  Utah has awesome women, families, communities, and skiing.  

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26 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Then call it opinion. 

Saying everyone has their "own truth" implies it is the truth that is varying.  It is our ability/inability to determine truth that varies.

There is only one truth.  Things as they actually exist.

 

But that’s how Oprah said it every day at 4 pm. 

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31 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

But that’s how Oprah said it every day at 4 pm. 

😁 And there lies the problem.

Pop psychology masquerading as spiritual growth.

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1 hour ago, blueglass said:

Unfortunately Utah ranks dead last in salary equality for women.   https://www.aauw.org/resource/gender-pay-gap-by-state-and-congressional-district/

In a wallethub survey they ranked Utah #50 with highest women's disparity (Education & Health)

Education & Health – Total Points: 33.33
*Disparity in Advanced Educational Attainment
*Disparity in Math Test Scores
*Disparity in Doctor-Visit Affordability
 

Anyway the surveys must be wrong.  Utah has awesome women, families, communities, and skiing.  

WalletHub??

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13 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

WalletHub??

Yeah, reputable for sure?  Among the surveys they have conducted (similar to the freakonomics guys) 1. 2015’s Best and Worst Cities for Halloween, 4. 2016’s Best & Worst Cities for Football Fans, 5. 2016’s Cities that Overspend on Cars

Here's a link to the results of the study, methodology, and profiles on who designed the survey.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-for-women-equality/5835/

Edited by blueglass
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2 hours ago, blueglass said:

Unfortunately Utah ranks dead last in salary equality for women.   https://www.aauw.org/resource/gender-pay-gap-by-state-and-congressional-district/

That's a comparison of aggregate salaries of men to women.  I'd expect Utah to be very close to last since a lot of women in Utah either don't work or only work part time because they are a stay-at-home mom.  I'd prefer to see a comparison of salaries between equivalent jobs.  I do agree that there is a difference between pay for men and women but using aggregate numbers is just misleading.

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2 hours ago, webbles said:

That's a comparison of aggregate salaries of men to women.  I'd expect Utah to be very close to last since a lot of women in Utah either don't work or only work part time because they are a stay-at-home mom.  I'd prefer to see a comparison of salaries between equivalent jobs.  I do agree that there is a difference between pay for men and women but using aggregate numbers is just misleading.

Well there you have the problem. Many women in Utah haven't aspired to have a full fledged career that pays top dollar, because they've been taught that their main job is in the home. Sure they've been taught to have an education but not a career so much.

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4 hours ago, blueglass said:

Yeah, reputable for sure?  Among the surveys they have conducted (similar to the freakonomics guys) 1. 2015’s Best and Worst Cities for Halloween, 4. 2016’s Best & Worst Cities for Football Fans, 5. 2016’s Cities that Overspend on Cars

Here's a link to the results of the study, methodology, and profiles on who designed the survey.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-for-women-equality/5835/

OK.

 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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