"LDS Church: Legal analysis raises concerns about Utah medical marijuana initiative"

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Pharmaceutical-grade isn't a good thing, I don't trust these crooks. I'd trust a dispenserary before them. Pharmaceuticals have caused far more deaths, actually 100% more than natural cannibus. Leave it to the ones that know.

The idea that marijuana is completely safe is not really true. It can cause problems if you eat lots of it. I believe it can also cause brain damage when used by maturing youth. I'm sure there are some deaths related to it, but they are difficult to prove. There are definitely deaths indirectly attributable to it - such as vehicular accidents while driving under the influence.

Nor would I trust the open market more than pharmacy products. There are certainly many cases of additives being used to "give a better buzz" to marijuana low in THC - or other additives used just to make the weed go further ie make more joints. If you smoke stuff off the street, you really have no idea what you are getting. Brands and products sold in a dispensary can at least be regulated like in Florida, but that doesn't mean there is not an incentive in the market to cheat. Would I really trust a dispensary store more than my local pharmacist?  No, I wouldn't. You seemed to make a point with "100% natural cannibus" but that is part of the problem. How do you ensure you are getting 100% cannabis? There are plenty of cases of street drugs getting laced. 

I just don't see many benefits to lying around getting high. While it may help the terminal patient in extreme pain, for most of society it has no measurable benefit. I believe cannabis should be allowed to be used for its helpful properties. I don't believe in denying you CBD from it. But, it seems to this observer that wherever high THC marijuana goes, undesirable social consequences follow. Maybe you can point me to a society which was really made better for it? 

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, california boy said:

Are you ok with throwing 40% of these people in jail because they don't think marijuana laws are fair a dn don't  want to comply with current laws?  

I’m ok with those folks trying to change the laws if the laws aren’t fair. There are plenty of laws I don’t think are fair. That doesn’t give me license to flaunt them.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Pharmaceutical-grade isn't a good thing, I don't trust these crooks. I'd trust a dispenserary before them. Pharmaceuticals have caused far more deaths, actually 100% more than natural cannibus. Leave it to the ones that know.

The church needs to stay out of this, or no longer be tax exempt, IMO. 

How many kids have died from using Epidiolex?

You must like to live on the edge!  Who are the “ones that know” and why should we trust them?

I suggest you read the Atlantic article for updated information.

The Church has every right....and the obligation....to speak out on public health and moral issues or any public issue it wants to comment on..

Edited August 24, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

37 minutes ago, california boy said:

Just asking.  I really don't have a solution here.  Marijuana doesn't seem to be a real problem in California, so I don't really have strong feelings about suppressing it.  I do think it is not the best move to jail people over it.

Just saying, from your neighbor to the north... California has so many problems that it would be pointless to recognize just one more.

On the other hand, you have this problem....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/growing-marijuana-illegally-national-forests-ravaging-environment/

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[jkwilliams]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

just dropped in my mailbox a minute ago.

It would be helpful if there was a proposition or law on the books that allowed for medical marijuana under the conditions described.  My question is how long do we have to wait for that to be available if we vote no on Prop 2. 
 

I wouldn't hold your breath.

[ksfisher]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

My question is how long do we have to wait for that to be available if we vote no on Prop 2. 

I don't think voting for a bad law will help create a good one.

[provoman]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

just dropped in my mailbox a minute ago.

It would be helpful if there was a proposition or law on the books that allowed for medical marijuana under the conditions described.  My question is how long do we have to wait for that to be available if we vote no on Prop 2. 
 

I said the same to my SO before the "legal analysis" was released.

[pogi]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

just dropped in my mailbox a minute ago.

It would be helpful if there was a proposition or law on the books that allowed for medical marijuana under the conditions described.  My question is how long do we have to wait for that to be available if we vote no on Prop 2. 

It is federal, rather than state, laws that we are waiting for change with.  It is the schedule I status by the DEA that is inhibiting drug companies from studying, manufacturing, and legally selling marijuana based drugs.  Because we recently have had a marijuana based product approved by the FDA, we might see changes soon with the DEA.

Edited August 24, 2018 by pogi

[pogi]

43 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I wouldn't hold your breath.

See my response to Calm above.  It might happen sooner than you think.  

[pogi]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Pharmaceutical-grade isn't a good thing, I don't trust these crooks. I'd trust a dispenserary before them. Pharmaceuticals have caused far more deaths, actually 100% more than natural cannibus. Leave it to the ones that know.

This is what happens when herbal/medicinal products are not regulated:

Quote

 

CDC urges states to regulate CBD oil after 52 people got sick off phony products sold in Utah

In a report released Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that synthetic products falsely labeled as cannabidiol, or CBD, sickened as many as 52 people from October through January.

The CDC urged states to set up regulatory and control systems “to minimize the risk for recurrences of this emerging public health threat.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/05/25/cdc-urges-states-to-regulate-cbd-oil-after-52-people-got-sick-off-phony-products-sold-in-utah/

 

I wouldn't trust buying/using anything that wasn't regulated like an OTC or prescription medication.  There are more "crooks" in deregulated industries, I promise. 

[jkwilliams]

What are the odds that medical marijuana will be discussed in October conference? 

[ksfisher]

35 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

What are the odds that medical marijuana will be discussed in October conference? 

I would be very surprised if it was mentioned specifically.  Maybe something more general such as urging us to become acquainted with issues facing our communities and take part in the political process. 

 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Hi from smoky Colorado.  We've lost every battle to keep MJ illegal.  Including various county/city battles to keep favored tax status away from grow operations.

Just a few things to note:

- There's still oodles and oodles and tons of MJ-related crime here.  Burglaries, robberies, violent crime, kidnappings, homicides - yeah, that didn't go away just because we legalized MJ.  The 2nd counselor in the bishopric this year had to deal with a rental property used as an illegal grow op.  These aren't exactly rare.  Here, I spent 30 seconds googling, and came up with a thing that happened last week, less than 20 miles from where I sit:  https://gazette.com/news/more-than-million-worth-of-marijuana-recovered-from-illegal-grows/article_e5edacda-a308-11e8-91c6-634c5aaa4b4d.html

- Keep an eye on tracability.  CO had a "seed to sale" process kicked off, it went over budget, failed, and died.  Legalizing MJ did much to formalize trade between CO govt and businesses, and transnational criminal organizations/cartels.  Basically, If you can't prove where your MJ came from, there is a chance the dollars you paid for your grandma's chemo nausea shot ended up in the coffers of some mexican gang.

- We had legal MMJ before just full-blown legalizing all of it.  I sat in the parking lot of a dispensary for a few hours once, just to see what I could see.  For two hours, 90% of the people I watched go in and out, were males between 18-35 that didn't appear to have anything wrong with them.  The racial mix of these folks were more, well, mixed than the general population of the area.  In short, if you guys legalize MMJ, don't kid yourself about how the only people to obtain the stuff will have a real medical need.  It will work about as well as prohibition did.  Google "prohibition alcohol prescriptions" for a fun time. 

- Say hello to your future:

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by LoudmouthMormon

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Dispenserary = Dispensary, for anyone who's wondering.   And cannibus?  Is this it?

And you think that the tax exempt status of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should be revoked even though it didn't simply come out with a blanket prohibition against marijuana and doesn't necessarily oppose the medicinal study and use of marijuana derivatives?  You think the tax exempt status of the Church of Jesus Christ should be revoked even though other churches whose leaders have blatantly violated federal law by endorsing candidates from the pulpit remain tax exempt?

That's what I get for typing in a hurry. But hey, I gave you some fun, love the cannibus, did I do that again?!?!

[Tacenda]

11 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Hi from smoky Colorado.  We've lost every battle to keep MJ illegal.  Including various county/city battles to keep favored tax status away from grow operations.

Just a few things to note:

- There's still oodles and oodles and tons of MJ-related crime here.  Burglaries, robberies, violent crime, kidnappings, homicides - yeah, that didn't go away just because we legalized MJ.  The 2nd counselor in the bishopric this year had to deal with a rental property used as an illegal grow op.  These aren't exactly rare.  Here, I spent 30 seconds googling, and came up with a thing that happened last week, less than 20 miles from where I sit:  https://gazette.com/news/more-than-million-worth-of-marijuana-recovered-from-illegal-grows/article_e5edacda-a308-11e8-91c6-634c5aaa4b4d.html

- Keep an eye on tracability.  CO had a "seed to sale" process kicked off, it went over budget, failed, and died.  Legalizing MJ did much to formalize trade between CO govt and businesses, and transnational criminal organizations/cartels.  Basically, If you can't prove where your MJ came from, there is a chance the dollars you paid for your grandma's chemo nausea shot ended up in the coffers of some mexican gang.

- We had legal MMJ before just full-blown legalizing all of it.  I sat in the parking lot of a dispensary for a few hours once, just to see what I could see.  For two hours, 90% of the people I watched go in and out, were males between 18-35 that didn't appear to have anything wrong with them.  The racial mix of these folks were more, well, mixed than the general population of the area.  In short, if you guys legalize MMJ, don't kid yourself about how the only people to obtain the stuff will have a real medical need.  It will work about as well as prohibition did.  Google "prohibition alcohol prescriptions" for a fun time. 

- Say hello to your future:

 

 

One sided, I'd like to hear the other side.

[LoudmouthMormon]

Just now, Tacenda said:

One sided, I'd like to hear the other side.

I think the state has made lots and lots of millions in tax revenue.

Edited August 24, 2018 by LoudmouthMormon

[ksfisher]

13 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

For two hours, 90% of the people I watched go in and out, were males between 18-35 that didn't appear to have anything wrong with them.  The racial mix of these folks were more, well, mixed than the general population of the area.  In short, if you guys legalize MMJ, don't kid yourself about how the only people to obtain the stuff have any sort of real medical need.

A DOT official told me in a training about 7 or 8 years ago that 90% of the people who were being prescribed marijuana in California were 20 to 30 year olds for chronic pain. 

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

How many kids have died from using Epidiolex?

You must like to live on the edge!  Who are the “ones that know” and why should we trust them?

I suggest you read the Atlantic article for updated information.

The Church has every right....and the obligation....to speak out on public health and moral issues or any public issue it wants to comment on..

When did I say kids have died using Epidiolex? I just mentioned the expense. https://techboyis.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-drug-maker-behind-first-fda.html

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can you provide references for these statements Tac?  I'd be interested in see them.

https://www.rxlist.com/epidiolex-side-effects-drug-center.htm#overview  Read the side affects, clear to the bottom. 

https://www.epilepsy.com/connect/forums/medication-issues/switching-keppra-cbd-oil  Non-bias forum, not trying to sell anything. 

These links will probably be brushed aside by most, but I will answer the call for references and just state it is my opinion, and thousands of others as well. 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.rxlist.com/epidiolex-side-effects-drug-center.htm#overview  Read the side affects, clear to the bottom. 

https://www.epilepsy.com/connect/forums/medication-issues/switching-keppra-cbd-oil  Non-bias forum, not trying to sell anything. 

These links will probably be brushed aside by most, but I will answer the call for references and just state it is my opinion, and thousands of others as well. 

Just curious about what you think you are reading in the first link.  Are you suggesting that epidiolex is more dangerous or has more adverse reactions than CBD oil?

I don't know if you realize this but epidiolex is "pure plant-derived cannabidiol, or CBD".  It is an isolated cannabidiol.   You can be confident that you actually get what you are paying and that it actually treats the condition that you are using it for, and you know exactly what the risks are.  

Here is why I would trust epidiolex from a pharmacy over CBD from a dispensary any day of the week:

http://www.saveoursociety.org/uncategorized/whats-the-difference-between-epidiolex-and-other-cbd-products/

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by pogi

[Calm]

Side effects of epidiolex (wonder how long it will take for this to start triggering 403 page?):

Quote

 

drowsiness,

decreased appetite, 

diarrhea, 

transaminase elevations, 

fatigue, 

feeling unwell (malaise), 

weakness/lethargy, 

rash, 

difficulty sleeping (insomnia, disordered sleep, and poor quality sleep), and 

infections

 

Marijuana side effects:

"Use of marijuana can cause dry mouth, nausea, vomiting, dry or red eyes, heart and blood pressure problems, lung problems, impaired mental functioning, headache, dizziness, numbness, panic reactions, hallucinations, flashbacks, depression, and sexual problems.

Pregnancy: Marijuana is UNSAFE when taken by mouth or smoked during pregnancy. Marijuana passes through the placenta and can slow the growth of the fetus. Marijuana use during pregnancy is also associated with childhood leukemia and abnormalities in the fetus.

Breast-feeding: Using marijuana, either by mouth or by inhalation is LIKELY UNSAFEduring breast-feeding. The dronabinol (THC) in marijuana passes into breast milk and extensive marijuana use during breast-feeding may result in slowed development in the baby.

Heart disease: Marijuana might cause rapid heartbeat, short-term high blood pressure. It might also increase the risk of a having heart attack.

A weakened immune system: Cannabinoids in marijuana can weaken the immune system, which might make it more difficult for the body to fight infections.

Lung diseases: Long-term use of marijuana can make lung problems worse. Regular, long-term marijuana use has been associated with lung cancer and also with several cases of an unusual type of emphysema, a lung disease.

Seizure disorders: Marijuana might make seizure disorders worse in some people; in other people it might help to control seizures.

Surgery: Marijuana affects the central nervous system. It might slow the central nervous system too much when combined with anesthesia and other medications during and after surgery. Stop using marijuana at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery."

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-947/marijuana

It would appear that most of the side effects are because epidolex is marijuana based or high CBD content (thus marijuana with similar content would tend to result in the same side effects).

Edited August 24, 2018 by Calm

[Calm]

Insomnia medical claims  is something I pay close attention to and having that as a side effect would cause me to hesitate to use a drug, so I found this article interesting.  

https://theconversation.com/does-marijuana-affect-your-sleep-81661

It would appear that variations in side effects exist with marijuana because of the different concentrations of the two most significant chemicals, THC and CBD.  To treat marijuana as if it were one drug and not many under one label will lead to inaccurate conclusions, imo.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Calm

[Tacenda]

14 minutes ago, pogi said:

Just curious about what you think you are reading in the first link.  Are you suggesting that epidiolex is more dangerous or has more adverse reactions than CBD oil?

I don't know if you realize this but epidiolex is "pure plant-derived cannabidiol, or CBD".  It is an isolated cannabidiol.   You can be confident that you actually get what you are paying and that it actually treats the condition that you are using it for, and you know exactly what the risks are.  

Here is why I would trust epidiolex from a pharmacy over CBD from a dispensary any day of the week:

http://www.saveoursociety.org/uncategorized/whats-the-difference-between-epidiolex-and-other-cbd-products/

 

 

That link is laughable, IMO. 

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That link is laughable, IMO. 

And this one?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2018/05/26/officials-say-fake-cbd-poisoned-at-least-52-people-in-utah-last-winter/#35d5f0b47dd3

[pogi]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That link is laughable, IMO. 

How so?  What specifically is laughable in that article?

Are you denying that epidiolex is simply a pure plant derived cannabidiol?  

I learned that from the manufacturer themselves:

https://www.greenwichbiosciences.com/products-pipeline/research-trials/clinical-trials?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=greenwich biosciences corporate_exact&utm_term=epidiolex&utm_content=greenwich biosciences corporate_exact_exact&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2f7bBRDVARIsAAwYBBsr-2MrFC4UsHnOaRGvgUx9cl3vu92onyXdyNsdtZkEfqK6jUz1G58aAkRWEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds