"LDS Church: Legal analysis raises concerns about Utah medical marijuana initiative"

[Tacenda]

On 8/30/2018 at 4:55 PM, pogi said:

"beneficial" is the questionable word here.  Marijuana is not intrinsically linked to prop 2. Because marijuana may be beneficial, does not mean that prop 2 is beneficial.  Big difference.  I think it is reasonable to expect a better alternative given the expectation of immediate action from the church, and now the governor as well. 

This man is for prop 2, and several other LDS that posted on his FB post, I guess when you need cannabis now, this is how it feels.

https://www.facebook.com/brett.hales.3/videos/10212807887733790/?t=0

I apologize in advance. This is a very selfish post. My hope is that I do not offend anyone. That’s hard, but that’s my hope and prayer.

Most of you know that I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis back in 2005. I’ve had my ups and downs. Last night was a tough one. I’ve been blessed as of late with minimal muscle spasms. Last evening my spasms came on strong and I was awake until around 5:00 am. You literally feel like you’ve run a marathon. It makes it almost impossible to function during the rest of the day. I’m not complaining. I know there are several others that have it much worse and I count myself as a very blessed person. I have a wonderful family that supports me. That’s huge! We have been anxiously awaiting for Proposition 2 (medical marijuana initiative) to be placed on the ballot this November. To be able to participate in activities with my family without having to run to the emergency room every time my muscle spasms are out of control and make it necessary for the Dr’s to pump a cocktail of Morphine, Ativan and Benadryl directly into my portacath, would be huge for me and Cindy. The emergency room and Dr’s are tired of it and frankly, so are we. It affects Cindy as much as it does me. She is absolutely amazing. I cringe to think where I’d be without her. My hope and prayer is the right outcome will come about this November. Again, I have it good. It’s just hard knowing that “edible medical marijuana” stops my spasms. We’d prefer sooner than later and I’m afraid it could be much later if prop 2 doesn’t pass. We’ll stand by whatever the decision is, but my “selfish” and “natural man” is hoping for sooner. May our Heavenly Father’s choicest blessings be upon all of us as we move forward in this quest. A huge hug from me to you ❤️❤️❤️

*Feel free to share*

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Tacenda

[pogi]

38 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This man is for prop 2, and several other LDS that posted on his FB post, I guess when you need cannabis now, this is how it feels.

https://www.facebook.com/brett.hales.3/videos/10212807887733790/?t=0

I apologize in advance. This is a very selfish post. My hope is that I do not offend anyone. That’s hard, but that’s my hope and prayer.

Most of you know that I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis back in 2005. I’ve had my ups and downs. Last night was a tough one. I’ve been blessed as of late with minimal muscle spasms. Last evening my spasms came on strong and I was awake until around 5:00 am. You literally feel like you’ve run a marathon. It makes it almost impossible to function during the rest of the day. I’m not complaining. I know there are several others that have it much worse and I count myself as a very blessed person. I have a wonderful family that supports me. That’s huge! We have been anxiously awaiting for Proposition 2 (medical marijuana initiative) to be placed on the ballot this November. To be able to participate in activities with my family without having to run to the emergency room every time my muscle spasms are out of control and make it necessary for the Dr’s to pump a cocktail of Morphine, Ativan and Benadryl directly into my portacath, would be huge for me and Cindy. The emergency room and Dr’s are tired of it and frankly, so are we. It affects Cindy as much as it does me. She is absolutely amazing. I cringe to think where I’d be without her. My hope and prayer is the right outcome will come about this November. Again, I have it good. It’s just hard knowing that “edible medical marijuana” stops my spasms. We’d prefer sooner than later and I’m afraid it could be much later if prop 2 doesn’t pass. We’ll stand by whatever the decision is, but my “selfish” and “natural man” is hoping for sooner. May our Heavenly Father’s choicest blessings be upon all of us as we move forward in this quest. A huge hug from me to you ❤️❤️❤️

*Feel free to share*

 

I empathize, but desperation does not equal good legislation.  He already has CBD oil available, isn’t it the cannabinoids that help, and not the THC?

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, pogi said:

I empathize, but desperation does not equal good legislation.  He already has CBD oil available, isn’t it the cannabinoids that help, and not the THC?

THC is needed for many things. This is the latest find, THC is absolutely necessary for the prevention of Alz...

https://www.sciencealert.com/marijuana-compound-thc-removes-toxic-alzheimer-protein-from-brain

And more red tape will not help those that need help now.

[pogi]

26 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

THC is needed for many things. This is the latest find, THC is absolutely necessary for the prevention of Alz...

https://www.sciencealert.com/marijuana-compound-thc-removes-toxic-alzheimer-protein-from-brain

And more red tape will not help those that need help now.

No, it is not “absolutely necessary” for the prevention of Alzheimer’s.   

Im not sure which is worse a small percentage of the population getting Alzheimer’s, or a very large percentage of the population stoned all the tine trying to prevent Alzheimer’s.  

Very serious side effects, very little evidence that it will actually prevent anything.  It is all theoretical.

My question was specifically about MS.  Show me the evidence that THC, rather than CBD, is needed.  Show me proof. Then I will show you studies of how THC has very negative consequences with MS.  It’s not a magic cure/prevention of all things without any down sides.  Either way, none of this addresses the down sides of prop 2.  If we are going to pass a bill, let’s get it right.

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, pogi said:

No, it is not “absolutely necessary” for the prevention of Alzheimer’s.   

Im not sure which is worse a small percentage of the population getting Alzheimer’s, or a very large percentage of the population stoned all the tine trying to prevent Alzheimer’s.  

Very serious side effects, very little evidence that it will actually prevent anything.  It is all theoretical.

My question was specifically about MS.  Show me the evidence that THC, rather than CBD, is needed.  Show me proof. Then I will show you studies of how THC has very negative consequences with MS.  It’s not a magic cure/prevention of all things without any down sides.  Either way, none of this addresses the down sides of prop 2.  If we are going to pass a bill, let’s get it right.

 

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this. Probably something like...oh, this is just theoretical. 🤣

https://420evaluationsonline.com/health-and-news/cannabis-oil-therapy-and-multiple-sclerosis-real-results

"THC in marijuana slows progression in people with primary progressive or secondary progressive MS."- Dr. John Zajicek (Plymouth University - Medicine & Dentistry)"

https://idweeds.com/cbd-multiple-sclerosis/

"In 2013 research highlighted the long-lasting anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis on the inflammation of the central nervous system (anti-neuroinflammatory effects), as part of MS. The report concluded that the medicine consisting of THC and CBD (Sativex) demonstrated a significant therapeutic potential for the treatment of inflammatory component pathologies."

Edited September 4, 2018 by Tacenda

[pogi]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

 

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this. Probably something like...oh, this is just theoretical. 🤣

https://420evaluationsonline.com/health-and-news/cannabis-oil-therapy-and-multiple-sclerosis-real-results

"THC in marijuana slows progression in people with primary progressive or secondary progressive MS."- Dr. John Zajicek (Plymouth University - Medicine & Dentistry)"

Sorry, one quote from one doctor from a site that sells marijuana cards is not proof of anything.

This is from the National Multiple Sclerosis society:

Quote

On progression of MS: Effect of oral dronabinol (a synthetic Cannabis/marijuana derivative) on progression in progressive MS: Previous laboratory evidence has shown that cannabinoids might protect the nervous system. In this study, 329 people received at least one dose of dronabinol and 164 received at least one dose of placebo. Dronabinol had no overall effect on the progression of MS. (Lancet Neurology, 2013)

Further, this site shows that it can have very negative effects on MS as well:

Quote

20 subjects with MS who smoked cannabis and 19 noncannabis users with MS, matched on demographic and neurologic variables, underwent functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI, which measures patterns of brain activity during performance of a task) while completing a test of working memory. The cannabis group performed more poorly on the more demanding tasks.

Quote

25 people with MS who regularly smoked or ingested street cannabis were tested and results compared to 25 people with MS who did not use cannabis. Users were tested at least 12 hours after last using cannabis so that intoxication was minimized. (Groups were matched and also differences were controlled for in terms of disease course and duration, age, gender, education and other factors.) The cannabis users were found to perform significantly worse on measures of information processing speed, working memory, executive functions and other cognitive functions, and were twice as likely as nonusers to be considered cognitively impaired. The study confirmed for the first time that cannabis can worsen cognitive problems in MS. (Neurology, 2012)

 

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

https://idweeds.com/cbd-multiple-sclerosis/

"In 2013 research highlighted the long-lasting anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis on the inflammation of the central nervous system (anti-neuroinflammatory effects), as part of MS. The report concluded that the medicine consisting of THC and CBD (Sativex) demonstrated a significant therapeutic potential for the treatment of inflammatory component pathologies."

Guess what Tacenda, cannabis is not the only anti-inflammatory out there!  Turmeric is safe, natural, with no nasty cognitive side-effects that THC causes.  It reduces inflammation and prevents the progression of MS. 

Quote

Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a chronic autoimmune inflammatory disease of the central nervous system (CNS), characterized by demyelination, neuronal injury, and breaching of the blood-brain barrier (BBB). Epidemiological studies have shown that immunological, genetic, and environmental factors contribute to the progression and development of MS. T helper 17 (Th17) cells are crucial immunological participant in the pathophysiology of MS. The aberrant production of IL-17 and IL-22 by Th17 cells crosses BBB promotes its disruption and interferes with transmission of nerve signals through activation of neuroinflammation in the CNS. These inflammatory responses promote demyelination through transcriptional activation of signal transducers and activators of transcription-1 (STAT-1), nuclear factor kappa-B (NF-κB), matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs), interferon ϒ (IFNϒ), and Src homology region 2 domain-containing phosphatase-1 (SHP-1). B cells also contribute to disease progression through abnormal regulation of antibodies, cytokines, and antigen presentation. Additionally, oxidative stress has been known as a causative agent for the MS. Curcumin is a hydrophobic yellowish diphenolic component of turmeric, which can interact and modulate multiple cell signaling pathways and prevent the development of various autoimmune neurological diseases including MS. Studies have reported curcumin as a potent anti-inflammatory, antioxidant agent that could modulate cell cycle regulatory proteins, enzymes, cytokines, and transcription factors in CNS-related disorders including MS. The current study summarizes the reported knowledge on therapeutic potential of curcumin against MS, with future indication as neuroprotective and neuropharmacological drug.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29079885

Anyway, you are missing the point of what I am saying.

I have no doubt that marijuana has great potential in medicine - in case you haven't figured it out yet, I am in favor of legalizing it - BUT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE RIGHT or there will be negative consequences - like the bogus CBD oil in Utah that has recently sickened many people! 

The last thing we want is people with MS who need treatment being scammed and sold bogus and dangerous product.  Why is this so hard to figure out?

Edited September 4, 2018 by pogi

[Tacenda]

 

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40749453_554762548292718_6741091298674999296_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b4f0fda86a42eab520aeabdf6580014&oe=5C38ABFB

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40749453_554762548292718_6741091298674999296_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b4f0fda86a42eab520aeabdf6580014&oe=5C38ABFB

The two links come from Utah Lieutenant Governer Spencer J. Cox. Very interesting to see the false claims put out by the opposition.

And something that came to me by way of listening to an interview. When the opponents of Prop 2 say that Medical Marijuana needs to have a prescription written out by a physician and that it needs to come from a pharmacy, both won't fly because the feds will take the physician's medical license as well as the pharmacy's, these have to occur in a dispensary, and a medical physician can suggest Medical Marijuana, not prescribe. According to the gentleman in the interview. Not sure how accurate, but sure a big reason Prop 2 needs to go forward.

So it sounds like the opponents aren't really interested in helping the people who need this type of help. They are in it for the money, or own stock in big pharm, or own apartments they don't want those with a medical card smoking in. It's clear to me. And sad that institutions take this position. Sad that LDS church is involved in trying to tell voters how to vote. 

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Tacenda

[HappyJackWagon]

I don't live in Utah so I haven't been following this as closely as some of you may have been. But I'm a bit surprised the medical marijuana ballot issue passed in Utah, especially after the church came out so vocally against it, urging voters to vote against it. But then I recalled reading about how Utah helped cinch the repeal of prohibition in 1933 against the urging of Pres. Grant.

Quote

LDS Church President Heber J. Grant fought Prohibition’s repeal. “I am not asking any man to vote against his conscience, but I am urging that before he votes for repeal he gets down on his knees and asks God if he is doing right,” Grant told followers.

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/state-and-regional/utah-vote-key-in-prohibition-repeal-years-ago/article_1f6a5f6b-b683-567e-bee2-a1c03374716f.html

So, it seems the church may not always have the sway amongst voters as it might expect. I wonder if their language of "urge" voters to do something is less effective than if the prophet straight out asked them to vote a certain way. But I can't imagine the prophet ever doing that. If for no other reason it would really put to test his influence on members should they reject the direction.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900040703/medical-marijuana-has-53-percent-support-from-voters-as-results-roll-in.html

This whole issue of a compromise bill to be interesting. Can someone explain the legalities of setting aside the vote of the people in accepting a ballot initiative as the language of the law is weakened?

[pogi]

58 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900040703/medical-marijuana-has-53-percent-support-from-voters-as-results-roll-in.html

This whole issue of a compromise bill to be interesting. Can someone explain the legalities of setting aside the vote of the people in accepting a ballot initiative as the language of the law is weakened?

I can't address the legalities of it, but I am encouraged by the compromise.  I like that a licensed pharmacist has to work at a dispensary and that all dispensaries would be run by state/county government.  I work for the Salt Lake County health department so my place of work will likely become a dispensary -  my boss has been trying to understand the legislation and figure out where and how these dispensaries will be run. 

I still am hoping for the day that the feds remove MJ from the schedule I category!  Only then will MJ receive the proper study it deserves with a better quality and regulated product with consistent dosing, etc.   

[pogi]

6 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Can someone explain the legalities of setting aside the vote of the people in accepting a ballot initiative as the language of the law is weakened?

Here is an explanation of the legality of it and why proponents of the bill were willing to compromise:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46422829/heres-how-and-why-the-legislature-could-change-proposition-2--even-if-it-passes

Edited November 8, 2018 by pogi

[BlueDreams]

7 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I don't live in Utah so I haven't been following this as closely as some of you may have been. But I'm a bit surprised the medical marijuana ballot issue passed in Utah, especially after the church came out so vocally against it, urging voters to vote against it. But then I recalled reading about how Utah helped cinch the repeal of prohibition in 1933 against the urging of Pres. Grant.

So, it seems the church may not always have the sway amongst voters as it might expect. I wonder if their language of "urge" voters to do something is less effective than if the prophet straight out asked them to vote a certain way. But I can't imagine the prophet ever doing that. If for no other reason it would really put to test his influence on members should they reject the direction.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900040703/medical-marijuana-has-53-percent-support-from-voters-as-results-roll-in.html

This whole issue of a compromise bill to be interesting. Can someone explain the legalities of setting aside the vote of the people in accepting a ballot initiative as the language of the law is weakened?

I think you can see that in other issues within the church where the church may come out more for something (such as more compassionate immigration and care for refugees) and it doesn't always persuade members away from strident positions or beliefs. As much as a lot of people think of the church as more swayed by their leader's opinion....there's always been diverse opinions and beliefs within the church body....sometimes it's just more apparent. 

For myself, I voted for the legislation. As did an LDS peer of mine whose child has problems with seizures that CBD helps with. To me, the potential concerns do not outweigh the potential benefits . Plus medical legalization, once more widespread, will hopefully bring more changes as Pogi mentioned to federal law and regulations that could allow it to be studied and regulated better as a potentially beneficial drug treatment to varying ailments. 

 

With luv,

BD

Edited November 8, 2018 by BlueDreams

[RevTestament]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:07 AM, pogi said:

Guess what Tacenda, cannabis is not the only anti-inflammatory out there!  Turmeric is safe, natural, with no nasty cognitive side-effects that THC causes.  It reduces inflammation and prevents the progression of MS. 

Anyway, you are missing the point of what I am saying.

I have no doubt that marijuana has great potential in medicine - in case you haven't figured it out yet, I am in favor of legalizing it - BUT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE RIGHT or there will be negative consequences - like the bogus CBD oil in Utah that has recently sickened many people! 

The last thing we want is people with MS who need treatment being scammed and sold bogus and dangerous product.  Why is this so hard to figure out?

Those are some good points Pogi. I have posted on this before, but it seems important for people to get some exercise 2-3/wk, and a little sun every day. As people have hidden away from the sun for fear of cancer, it seems alzheimer's rates have gone up. These things seem to prevent the amyloid buildups in the brain. I think Tacenda should also cook with Tumeric if she is really concerned about alzheimer's. Indans don't seem to get much alzheimer's or dementia, and many attribute their mental health in old age to use of Tumeric in their diet.

I am concerned that corrupt sellers will produce bad med cannabis, and I am concerned about it getting smoked here in Utah, as well as a few other things. But I think the proposed legislation was too restrictive. We'll see how the Prop 2 legislation goes I guess. I know someone who will be glad for it - she suffers seizures, even with her present medicines, which have caused her to gain weight. I actually continue to hope that absent evidence of harm, that non-psychoactive cannabis will become even more freely available, while the psychoactive THC strains and products will be kept out or limited to terminal cases. 

[provoman]

On 11/7/2018 at 1:15 PM, HappyJackWagon said:

 

This whole issue of a compromise bill to be interesting. Can someone explain the legalities of setting aside the vote of the people in accepting a ballot initiative as the language of the law is weakened?

Utah allows the Legislature to usurp the The Will Of The People....because you know, conservatives LOVE AND WORSHIP the Nanny State.

The New Times is reporting that 80% of precints have submitted results, For Prop 2 is 53% Against is 46%.

I hope enough State Legislature have the moral fortitude to not perpetuate the Nanny State on Utah Citizens.

[pogi]

27 minutes ago, provoman said:

Utah allows the Legislature to usurp the The Will Of The People....because you know, conservatives LOVE AND WORSHIP the Nanny State.

The New Times is reporting that 80% of precints have submitted results, For Prop 2 is 53% Against is 46%.

I hope enough State Legislature have the moral fortitude to not perpetuate the Nanny State on Utah Citizens.

If it was on the ballot, I wonder if the compromise would not have received even more support than 53%?  I almost guarantee it would have.  As Greg Hughes states, "initiatives are often much more complex than a simple "yes" or "no" answer."  I can see why this ability of the legislature to amend initiatives can be a good or bad.  In this particular instance, I think it worked out to Utah's advantage. 

[provoman]

The fear mongering against prop 2 certainly took it toll on and affected the total approval numbers in support of prop 2.

What I find interesting is the fear mongering against prop 2 involved questioning the ethics of Doctors in Utah. Which suggests to me that perhaps the bar for Doctors in Utah is set toooooo low. This disparagement against Utah Doctors was partially in regard to chronic pain.

Having spoken with a Doctor about pain, and having been tested for pain, it is my position that Doctors know the fakers from those in pain. 

But now, if the usurption of the Peoples Will happens, those who suffer chronic pain, first have to exhuast opiods as a relief, then their Doctor has to suggest, then some group of knowitalls that met every 90 days will determine if "it would compassionate" to allow the chronic pain sufferer to try medical marijuana. 

Oh and some insight into the fear mongering and wailing about "wont someone think about the children" part of that mongering was about edibles.

 

[pogi]

35 minutes ago, provoman said:

The fear mongering against prop 2 certainly took it toll on and affected the total approval numbers in support of prop 2.

What I find interesting is the fear mongering against prop 2 involved questioning the ethics of Doctors in Utah. Which suggests to me that perhaps the bar for Doctors in Utah is set toooooo low. This disparagement against Utah Doctors was partially in regard to chronic pain.

Having spoken with a Doctor about pain, and having been tested for pain, it is my position that Doctors know the fakers from those in pain. 

But now, if the usurption of the Peoples Will happens, those who suffer chronic pain, first have to exhuast opiods as a relief, then their Doctor has to suggest, then some group of knowitalls that met every 90 days will determine if "it would compassionate" to allow the chronic pain sufferer to try medical marijuana. 

Oh and some insight into the fear mongering and wailing about "wont someone think about the children" part of that mongering was about edibles.

I don't know about the questioning the ethics of doctors part.  I never saw that.  Utah's medical community was part of the coalition opposed to Prop 2.

A doctor might think that he knows the fakers from those in pain, he might have good reason to suspect fakers, but he cannot be certain.  Pain treatment is based on subjective reporting, we have no way to test how severe the experience of pain is or is not.  Medical ethic states that the pain is whatever the patient says it is.  That is what we treat.

I am happy about the requirement of a doctor's prescription or "suggestion".   I was not aware that opiods must be tried first - that is unfortunate!  I really, really don't like that part, and I also was not aware of an oversight group that the doctors recommendation must go through.  That seems excessive and does undermine the clinicians judgment.  If anything, the oversight group should be in place for opioid use, not the other way around.  

Damn feds are just making a mess of things by forcing the handw of States to come up with their own loop-holes around federal law. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by pogi

[provoman]

The UMA, which opposed prop 2, does not represent the medical profession of Utah. That is, UMA is more of a association of Doctors, membership is voluntary. So UMA opposition to prop 2 was that private club opposition, which is not representative of the entire medical community.

Prop 2 requires a Doctors recommendation, which I think is good as well.

Look up the proposed compromise, and the "Compassionate Ues Board" chronic pain sufferers have to go through that board.

Another part of the supposed "compromise" is employers can fire people because of medical marijuana use - that is nothing but horse droppings.  on the job under the influence is a different situation

Edited November 10, 2018 by provoman

[provoman]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

I don't know about the questioning the ethics of doctors part.  I never saw that.  Utah's medical community was part of the coalition opposed to Prop 2.

A doctor might think that he knows the fakers from those in pain, he might have good reason to suspect fakers, but he cannot be certain.  Pain treatment is based on subjective reporting, we have no way to test how severe the experience of pain is or is not.  Medical ethic states that the pain is whatever the patient says it is.  That is what we treat.

I am happy about the requirement of a doctor's prescription or "suggestion".   I was not aware that opiods must be tried first - that is unfortunate!  I really, really don't like that part, and I also was not aware of an oversight group that the doctors recommendation must go through.  That seems excessive and does undermine the clinicians judgment.  If anything, the oversight group should be in place for opioid use, not the other way around.  

Damn feds are just making a mess of things by forcing the handw of States to come up with their own loop-holes around federal law. 

I believe this is the most recent proposed compromise

Landlords can not refuse a lease solely for medical use of marijuana, unless doing allowing the individual to lease would cause a Federal benefit that the landlord receives to be revoked.

Only Government employers can not fire, suspend, refuse to hire, individuals who use medical marijuana and said use does not impair job functions.  

[provoman]

95% reporting, Yes votes maintain a steady lead. Yes votes gained a bit over the past few days. 

Not sure why, Utah County still 88 precicnts that haven't report...was voting in Utah County electronic ballots?

998,630 votes;

523,768 For;

474,862 Against.

Edited November 16, 2018 by provoman

[Calm]

They have gone to emphasize mail in ballots and if you don’t do that there are a lot of hoops to jump through to avoid duplicate ballots. My husband came home and got his mail in ballot because of the lines at the polling places. (He is very ticked off at the hassle)

Which means there is a lot of hand checking mail in ballots and the provisional ballots and possibly other stuff that my husband never got to because he went back to using the mail in ballot. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Calm

[provoman]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

They have gone to emphasize mail in ballots and if you don’t do that there are a lot of hoops to jump through to avoid duplicate ballots. My husband came home and got his mail in ballot because of the lines at the polling places. (He is very ticked off at the hassle)

Which means there is a lot of hand checking mail in ballots and the provisional ballots and possibly other stuff that my husband never got to because he went back to using the mail in ballot. 

Thanks for the in sight.

[provoman]

97% reporting, For 52.3%, Against 47.9

[MiserereNobis]

Next thing you know, Willie Nelson is going to play a run of shows in Utah...

[provoman]

22 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Next thing you know, Willie Nelson is going to play a run of shows in Utah...

 Utah should host Colorados 420 festival next April.

[Tacenda]

 

Jim Dabakis: "Utah House just repealed Prop 2. Medical cannabis. It’s sad day for patients. Senate is in debate. Such contempt for the people by the ‘people’s representatives’"

I listened to the tail end and couldn't believe my eyes. It's true 90 percent of these representatives are LDS and most have sworn to obey their LDS leaders in the temple and when the church told it's members to vote "no", that's just what they did. How in the world can a church with a tax exempt status come out and tell people what to vote for. In fact, someone mentioned that right before the voting took place a stake president got up in Sac Mtg and told the congregation they must vote "no" on prop 2, and if they didn't they would be going against the prophet. Sad, very sad. 

So I guess people who vote in Utah, can't always count on the vote sticking. How does this look to those up and coming younger voters that put in a lot of effort to get Prop 2 passed, and now see that it doesn't matter? Maybe they'll get the idea that the system is rigged? That the people don't matter, just the people on the hill, who get their marching orders from the LDS church, which is the behemoth of all behemoths.