In 2013 a mission president was removed for misconduct

[bsjkki]

20 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Do we know when he was excommunicated? 

Yes...original post quote from the Trib.

[ALarson]

11 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Yes...original post quote from the Trib.

So these other crimes were after his excommunication.  Just trying to get things in the proper order.  Thanks!

[kllindley]

2 hours ago, Danzo said:

I read the article, I don't see where it mentions a crime was committed.   

Most things people get excommunicated for are not crimes.

But that's not the point! Some church leader did something bad. Sure, The Church acted immediately to prevent further misconduct, but the important thing is that the Church is bad. They should have done more.

Was there a crime committed yet? Who cares! Church is bad!

Did they try to respect and protect the victims? Who cares! Church is bad!

The only proper course of action the Church can take now is to admit it's all a fraud and disappear. 

 

[Danzo]

34 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

Your loyalty is first to the Lord, then to your mission president, then to your companion.

I like that quote. We put the Lord first, before our mission president, stake president, etc

When properly followed it prevents abuses from those who lead us.

Every once in a while someone I know will complain that their priesthood leader is asking them to do things they don't think they should do. I always say that in the church, the Lord is our employer, we don't work for our priesthood leaders.

[Robert F. Smith]

One can easily do a background check online of Philander "Phil" Knox Smartt III (now 48 years old).  He was born in Oct 1, 1969, and currently lives in Chattanooga, TN, and previously lived in Pensacola, FL , Vestavia, AL and Helena, AL.  He was a wealthy Alabama lawyer-developer when called as PR mission pres in 2013.  He has two daughters.

                  

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Danzo said:

I read the article, I don't see where it mentions a crime was committed.   

Most things people get excommunicated for are not crimes.

I used to regularly visit the LDS guys in a Federal Prison inside my ward boundaries in California.  There were a lot of them, and they were all criminals, and they had all been excommunicated.

[Danzo]

Just now, Robert F. Smith said:

I used to regularly visit the LDS guys in a Federal Prison inside my ward boundaries in California.  There were a lot of them, and they were all criminals, and they had all been excommunicated.

Sure, we do excommunicate people for committing crimes, but much of the church discipline (at least in my experience) has to do  with things that are not criminally actionable..

[katherine the great]

This is a very weird story. His name is "Philander"? I'm still not sure what exactly his intentions were towards the sisters but he seemed to on a trajectory that sent him off the edge.  His behavior reminds me of some severely bipolar people I have known. I feel bad for those girls and his family.

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

This is a very weird story. His name is "Philander"?

Did you read it as "Philanderer?"  

Mea culpa.  I did.  When I read the Trib article.  I thought "Man, Peggy Fletcher-Stack must really not like this guy, to just go ahead and label him a philanderer."

2 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

I'm still not sure what exactly his intentions were towards the sisters but he seemed to on a trajectory that sent him off the edge.  His behavior reminds me of some severely bipolar people I have known. I feel bad for those girls and his family.

Perhaps.  Not very rational, to be sure.  How did he propose to get away with what he was doing?

-Smac

[ALarson]

14 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

This is a very weird story. His name is "Philander"?

His Dad has the same name and was also a Mission President:

http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/articles/25060/New-mission-presidents.html

Quote

Phil K. Smartt Jr., 50, California Oakland Mission; Brainerd Ward, Chattanooga Tennessee Stake; multi-region welfare agent; former stake president and counselor, bishop, Sunday School president, Young Men president, and counselor in branch presidency; owner of insurance company; received bachelor's degree from BYU; born in Chattanooga, Tenn., to Philander Knox and Juanita Louise Fournier Smartt; married Gloria Dawn Rose, six children. She is a Relief Society teacher; former counselor in stake Relief Society presidency, Young Women president, Merrie Miss teacher, and Relief Society homemaking counselor; received bachelor's degree from BYU; born in Birmingham, Ala., to Fred and Sara Frances Limbaugh Lindsay Rose.

Makes sense (named after Dad) since he's Philander Knox Smartt III (the third.... 😉).

[katherine the great]

38 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Did you read it as "Philanderer?"  

Mea culpa.  I did.  When I read the Trib article.  I thought "Man, Peggy Fletcher-Stack must really not like this guy, to just go ahead and label him a philanderer."

Perhaps.  Not very rational, to be sure.  How did he propose to get away with what he was doing?

-Smac

Well I read it as "Philander" but wondered if the word "Philanderer" was named after him.  Irrational behavior for sure. Mental illness could be a factor. If not, maybe he's just one of those people who compartmentalizes in a pathological way.

 

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I served a mission and the missionaries in my mission definitely didn't see the mission president as second to God.  

I was going to say, nobody told me about allegiances or anything like that. My MP hardly knew me, and I was fine with that

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

One can easily do a background check online of Philander "Phil" Knox Smartt III (now 48 years old).  He was born in Oct 1, 1969, and currently lives in Chattanooga, TN, and previously lived in Pensacola, FL , Vestavia, AL and Helena, AL.  He was a wealthy Alabama lawyer-developer when called as PR mission pres in 2013.  He has two daughters.

                  

same year as my sister, so crazy!!!!! I feel so bad for his family

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I was going to say, nobody told me about allegiances or anything like that. My MP hardly knew me, and I was fine with that

I'm waiting for MG to come back and show exactly what part in the handbook he is referring to.  Like most missionaries, i read that book dozens of times on my mission and apparently that part always went right over my head too!

[HappyJackWagon]

Just now, bluebell said:

I'm waiting for MG to come back and show exactly what part in the handbook he is referring to.  Like most missionaries, i read that book dozens of times on my mission and apparently that part always went right over my head too!

Quote

 

Obey the standards of missionary conduct and the rules of the mission. If you notice any inappropriate situation or behavior, discuss it with your companion. If the matter is not resolved, have the courage and love for your companion to ask your mission president for help. Violations of missionary standards may threaten your companion’s effectiveness and even his or her salvation. Care enough for your companion to ask for help from your mission president before a problem becomes serious. Your loyalty is first to the Lord, then to your mission president, then to your companion.

 

I shared this back a while ago with some comments about it. I see where he's coming from but the interpretation is overstated IMO

 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I shared this back a while ago with some comments about it. I see where he's coming from but the interpretation is overstated IMO

 

Yes, given the context of the statement, i think his interpretation is very overstated.  Thanks for sharing it!

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm waiting for MG to come back and show exactly what part in the handbook he is referring to.  Like most missionaries, i read that book dozens of times on my mission and apparently that part always went right over my head too!

I think I read it like once hahhahahhahahhaha! I just used what the mission president said and common sense (not that others didn't) 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

This is a very weird story. His name is "Philander"? I'm still not sure what exactly his intentions were towards the sisters but he seemed to on a trajectory that sent him off the edge.  His behavior reminds me of some severely bipolar people I have known. I feel bad for those girls and his family.

 

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Did you read it as "Philanderer?"  

Mea culpa.  I did.  When I read the Trib article.  I thought "Man, Peggy Fletcher-Stack must really not like this guy, to just go ahead and label him a philanderer."

Perhaps.  Not very rational, to be sure.  How did he propose to get away with what he was doing?

-Smac

It is indeed an unusual name -- and an unfortunate coincidence in this instance.

But I would avoid the urge to put too much stock in that. He was given the name of his grandfather and father (that's why he has "the third" attached to his name). The name may pertain in some way to the culture of the South.

I am acquainted with his father and, though it has been decades since our last contact, remember his father as being a very good man.

Edited to add:

I'm guessing the name came from this American politician of the early 1900s who served  as U.S. attorney general and later as U.S. seretary of state and was in the cabinet under three U.S. presidents.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

14 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm waiting for MG to come back and show exactly what part in the handbook he is referring to.  Like most missionaries, i read that book dozens of times on my mission and apparently that part always went right over my head too!

You are not unusual in that respect.

I clicked on the link, and there's nothing there about unconditional allegiance to a mission president or to anyone else, for that matter. That's an absurd reading of the content in the handbook.

Edited to add: I just read the post from HJW, so I understand better now, but I still think it's an out-of-context interpretation, and that it doesn't mean unconditional loyalty to a mission president, as has been implied here.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[california boy]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I can understand why they used a cover story...things unfolded very quickly. I would not want the sisters gossiped about and a thorough investigation had not been done. But, it was still a lie. 

The biggest problem about not publicly reporting these allegations, is the ability of  the perpetrators to continue their bad acts. 

I struggle with this in my own life but the victims just want to move on and heal...I will not make an accusation on their behalf and subject them to something they don’t feel able to handle. 

I don't know.  It seems weird that a church claiming to be the church of Christ lies about the reason a mission president is being released.  It also perpetuates the culture that men in authority do nothing wrong.  Why couldn't the church leaders called a mission conference, tell the missionaries that the mission president was sent home because he betrayed his trust given to him in his position and was unworthy to continue in that calling.  Why couldn't church leaders then said that those involved were not responsible for what happened and should be treated with nothing more than love and respect.

This might have been the most valuable lesson these missionaries could have learned on their mission.  Being called to a position does not mean that sin can not happen.  They should trust God more than they trust church leaders.  It is a lesson that might have completely changed my life when I thought I could trust my church leaders. Lying for the Lord never seems like a righteous concept that should be used.  What kind of message does that send when eventually they find out the truth.  Not only could they not trust their mission president, but now they can't trust the general authorities.  So no.  I can't understand why they would fabricate a cover story for what really happened.  

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I think I read it like once hahhahahhahahhaha! I just used what the mission president said and common sense (not that others didn't) 

On my mission we had to read five pages every morning as part of our companionship study.   

[smac97]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It is indeed an unusual name -- and an unfortunate coincidence in this instance.

But I would avoid the urge to put too much stock in that. He was given the name of his grandfather and father (that's why he has "the third" attached to his name). The name may pertain in some way to the culture of the South.

I am acquainted with his father and, though it has been decades since our last contact, remember his father as being a very good man.

Yes, I am not putting any stock in it.  And I don't want to make light of it, either.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Duncan]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

On my mission we had to read five pages every morning as part of our companionship study.   

you had comp. study???????????????? geez!!!!! we didn't, or at least I almost never. Out Mission had this "scholar program", which didn't emphasize any of that stuff-We had to memorize all the scriptures in the discussions, memorize all the headings and sub headings in the discussions, baptize 3 months in a row, teach a lesson with a ZL and have this interview with an AP-mine was totally lamo but that's besides the point. Our zone conferences were 3 hours, and it was pure business and when I got home my friends would tell me about their missions, apparently they fed them at zone conferences, they never did that to us, they kicked us out and we had to go back to our areas immediately and their mission presidents were like their pal or something, ours was not a too personable chap, TBH. He was friendly but not hanging out with you, telling stories about his life. Our mission was the yuppie, preppie mission, for this and other reasons

[juliann]

I've only skimmed posts so maybe I missed it.....but what exactly did this guy do?  I'm only seeing talk about victims. 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

you had comp. study???????????????? geez!!!!! we didn't, or at least I almost never. Out Mission had this "scholar program", which didn't emphasize any of that stuff-We had to memorize all the scriptures in the discussions, memorize all the headings and sub headings in the discussions, baptize 3 months in a row, teach a lesson with a ZL and have this interview with an AP-mine was totally lamo but that's besides the point. Our zone conferences were 3 hours, and it was pure business and when I got home my friends would tell me about their missions, apparently they fed them at zone conferences, they never did that to us, they kicked us out and we had to go back to our areas immediately and their mission presidents were like their pal or something, ours was not a too personable chap, TBH. He was friendly but not hanging out with you, telling stories about his life. Our mission was the yuppie, preppie mission, for this and other reasons

My mission was great!  My MP was really laid back but he still expected a lot from his missionaries.  He just wasn't strict, and yes, we always ate really well after zone conference!