The next phase of the Church under the new First presidency

[pogi]

In the broadcast of the new first Presidency, much was revealed as to the direction this presidency plans on taking the church.  President Nelson stated that they thought it important to "begin with the end in mind" by speaking from the temple.  It appears that the next phase of the church will not be focused so much on growth in numbers, but on growth in faith within the church.  President Nelson assured us that we will continue to fulfill the mandate to take the gospel to every people, but emphasized the focus on increased spiritual endowment and power, as did President Eyring.  I am excited for this increased focus on spiritual maturity in faith and endowment. It is so needed.  I pray for President Nelson and hope that he will be the spiritual leader that the church desperately needs right now, to guide us into the assurance, peace, and spiritual satiation of living waters through increased faith.  This broadcast gave me much hope to that end.  

President Eyring made this direction abundantly clear:

Quote

 

The growth in the number of members and their spread across nations, kindred's, tongues, and peoples are visible miracles, but the greater miracle—and the one which will accelerate—is the growth in faith in Jesus Christ. The Lord has prepared and chosen President Nelson to lead in that growth. He knows and loves the Lord.  The growth will come as we each pray, work, and live to have the Holy Ghost as our companion in our lives.  We are promised that blessing as we renew and remember covenants we make in the sacrament and in holy temples, and so have the spirit to be with us... 

This is a great time in the history of the Church. And yes, the best is still to come.

President Nelson spoke along those same lines:

Quote

Now, to each member of the Church I say, keep on the covenant path. Your commitment to follow the Savior by making covenants with him, and then keeping those covenants, will open the door for every spiritual blessing and privilege available to men, women, and children everywhere. As a new Presidency, we want to begin with the end in mind.  For this reason, we are speaking to you today from a temple. The end for which each of us strives is to be endowed with power in a house of the Lord, sealed as families, faithful to covenants made in a temple, that qualify us for the greatest gift of God - that of eternal life.  The ordinances of the temple and the covenants you make there are key to strengthening your life, your marriage and family, and your ability to resist the attacks of the adversary.  Your worship in the temple, and your service there for your ancestors, will bless you with increased personal revelation and peace, and will fortify your commitment to stay on the covenant path. 

I have a feeling that this will be a great time of sifting and strengthening of those who will hear and heed the word of God.  It appears that this will be a presidency with a strong emphasis on endowments of power, faith, increased personal revelation, peace, and temple worship.  We so need that right now, in sifting through the many competing voices of the political and secular world.  I, for one, am looking forward to this emphasis of internal spiritual growth and strength.

Thoughts?

[theplains]

41 minutes ago, pogi said:

In the broadcast of the new first Presidency, much was revealed as to the direction this presidency plans on taking the church.  President Nelson stated that they thought it important to "begin with the end in mind" by speaking from the temple.  ...

Thoughts?

Was it his age that made him the President?

Jim

[JLHPROF]

5 minutes ago, theplains said:

Was it his age that made him the President?

No, his length of service as an Apostle.  It is seniority by ordination, not age.

[Duncan]

6 minutes ago, theplains said:

Was it his age that made him the President?

Jim

he was foreordained to be

[JAHS]

7 minutes ago, theplains said:

Was it his age that made him the President?

Jim

Nope. The number of years he has been an Apostle.

[Calm]

51 minutes ago, pogi said:

I have a feeling that this will be a great time of sifting and strengthening of those who will hear and heed the word of God.  It appears that this will be a presidency with a strong emphasis on endowments of power, faith, increased personal revelation, peace, and temple worship.  We so need that right now, in sifting through the many competing voices of the political and secular world.  I, for one, am looking forward to this emphasis of internal spiritual growth and strength.

Thoughts?

I love the idea of growing in awareness that we are a covenant people on a covenant path, both on an individual level and as a community.  I believe the concept of covenants helps pull the reasons for all the many things we attempt to do together best, definitely better than focusing solely on "follow the commandments" for example as necessary as that is to living the covenants of the Gospel.  I think our American culture isn't that great at living covenants, so the Church needs to step in to help fill the gap of teaching it.  Other cultures are probably both better and worse than ours, but I doubt there is anyone who can't improve in this area.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

In the broadcast of the new first Presidency, much was revealed as to the direction this presidency plans on taking the church.  President Nelson stated that they thought it important to "begin with the end in mind" by speaking from the temple.  It appears that the next phase of the church will not be focused so much on growth in numbers, but on growth in faith within the church.  President Nelson assured us that we will continue to fulfill the mandate to take the gospel to every people, but emphasized the focus on increased spiritual endowment and power, as did President Eyring.  I am excited for this increased focus on spiritual maturity in faith and endowment. It is so needed.  I pray for President Nelson and hope that he will be the spiritual leader that the church desperately needs right now, to guide us into the assurance, peace, and spiritual satiation of living waters through increased faith.  This broadcast gave me much hope to that end.  

President Eyring made this direction abundantly clear:

President Nelson spoke along those same lines:

I have a feeling that this will be a great time of sifting and strengthening of those who will hear and heed the word of God.  It appears that this will be a presidency with a strong emphasis on endowments of power, faith, increased personal revelation, peace, and temple worship.  We so need that right now, in sifting through the many competing voices of the political and secular world.  I, for one, am looking forward to this emphasis of internal spiritual growth and strength.

Thoughts?

I also found it noteworthy that President Eyring mentioned something to the effect that the press conference was a much-coveted opportunity serving missionary purposes to get our message clearly an broadly disseminated into to the world. I think the direction covers both ends, cultivating people to get on the covenant path as well a further cultivation of those on the covenant path. I'm seeing a Jacob 5 theme.

[cdowis]

I think that the missionaries in some locations have already been tasked in a focus on activation of inactive members.  The  measure of success will focus on the  increase in sacrament meeting attendance.

[carbon dioxide]

We focus too much on numbers.  The Church was just as true on April 6, 1830 with 6 members as it is today with however many million one wants to attribute to it.  Better to have a smaller church with more active members than a very large church with not very many active members.  Missionary work should focus more on reactivation and retention.  This would mean teaching missionaries far more about the church, history and other things.  This may mean to throw away the "Come Follow Me" program that just teaches the kids the same basic things over and over again year after year and does not stimulate growth and teach new things every week. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by carbon dioxide

[JLHPROF]

19 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

We focus too much on numbers.  The Church was just as true on April 6, 1830 with 6 members as it is today with however many million one wants to attribute to it.  Better to have a smaller church with more active members than a very large church with not very many active members.  Missionary work should focus more on reactivation and retention.  This would mean teaching missionaries far more about the church, history and other things.  This may mean to throw away the "Come Follow Me" program that just teaches the kids the same basic things over and over again year after year and does not stimulate growth and teach new things every week. 

I agree.
Converting the entire world was never an option and prophecy indicates that sooner or later, time's up.
The Church is worldwide, everything is available on the internet, it's been nearly 200 years since the gospel was restored, and we are well into the 7th thousand years by any scriptural measuring stick.

I have no idea the hour or day, but I would agree that it's time to focus on reactivation and retention, on preparing the faithful for what is to come.
The time for fishers of men will end and hunters of men will begin soon enough.  (Jer 14:14-16).
 

[RevTestament]

13 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

We focus too much on numbers.  The Church was just as true on April 6, 1830 with 6 members as it is today with however many million one wants to attribute to it.  Better to have a smaller church with more active members than a very large church with not very many active members.  Missionary work should focus more on reactivation and retention.  This would mean teaching missionaries far more about the church, history and other things.  This may mean to throw away the "Come Follow Me" program that just teaches the kids the same basic things over and over again year after year and does not stimulate growth and teach new things every week. 

In retrospect I doubt you meant that. The Come Follow Me program is good for a year, but it is kind of like the four years of adult SS material rotation - it needs additional material. So we need something like Come Follow Me 1, 2, 3 & 4. As I have said, I would like to see this Presidency work on materials and activities for the youth of the Church. I believe that is especially important for long term retention. Our kids should know the scriptures better than those of any other Church. I know that is a lofty goal, but it is important to the long-term growth of the Church. I certainly could have improved the instruction of my/our kids.

Our Church has lots of room to improve with retention. Those who were open to the spirit and the restored gospel once(inactives), are probably some of the most likely to be willing to listen again.

[SteveO]

16 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The time for fishers of men will end and hunters of men will begin soon enough.  (Jer 14:14-16).
 

What’s the difference?

[CMZ]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

We focus too much on numbers.  The Church was just as true on April 6, 1830 with 6 members as it is today with however many million one wants to attribute to it.  Better to have a smaller church with more active members than a very large church with not very many active members.  Missionary work should focus more on reactivation and retention.  This would mean teaching missionaries far more about the church, history and other things.  This may mean to throw away the "Come Follow Me" program that just teaches the kids the same basic things over and over again year after year and does not stimulate growth and teach new things every week. 

I'm pretty sure every single prophet has spoken about how individual conversion is more important than numbers. I was just listen to a talk from 1984 by President Hinckley to that effect. "Focusing too much on numbers" is one of those things that's way too easy to accuse the Church of. It has always been the case that we need to take the gospel message to as many people as we can but also that we need to make sure individuals are truly converted and retained. If President Nelson emphasizes this more that's still no proof that prior presidents of the church didn't think along the same lines.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, cdowis said:

I think that the missionaries in some locations have already been tasked in a focus on activation of inactive members.  The  measure of success will focus on the  increase in sacrament meeting attendance.

They have been doing that in some missions since at least the turn of the century (I still love being able to use that phrase for less than two decades, even if it was more fun at less than five years).

[cinepro]

4 hours ago, JAHS said:

Nope. The number of years he has been an Apostle.

Not quite.  President Nelson and President Oaks have been Apostles for the same number of years.

Elder Nelson and Elder Oaks were called on the same day (April 6) in 1984, but President Oaks was out of town for a few weeks and couldn't be ordained until May, while President Nelson was ordained in early April (over Conference weekend).

This is how it was announced at that Conference:

Quote

As the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: Elders Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter, Thomas S. Monson, Boyd K. Packer, Marvin J. Ashton, Bruce R. McConkie, L. Tom Perry, David B. Haight, James E. Faust, Neal A. Maxwell, Russell M. Nelson, and Dallin H. Oaks. All in favor, please manifest it, contrary, if there be any, by the same sign.

With reference to Dallin Oaks, I should like to say that while we nominate and sustain him today, he will not be ordained to the apostleship, nor will he be set apart as a member of the Council of the Twelve, nor will he begin his apostolic service, until after he completes his present judicial commitments, which may require several weeks. He is absent from the city, and necessarily absent from the conference. We excuse him.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1984/04/the-sustaining-of-church-officers?lang=eng

 

According to this article, Nelson was called on April 6, 1984.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695137/Read-1984-bio-of-President-Nelson-when-he-was-called-to-be-an-apostle.html

And according to this article, Oaks was also called on the same day (in this case, he was literally "called" since he was out of town):

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695136/Read-1984-bio-of-President-Oaks-life-at-the-time-of-his-call-to-be-an-apostle.html

Protocol would dictate that Nelson would be ordained first and be senior because he is older anyway, but in this case, President Nelson became the Prophet because he was older on April 6, 1984, not because of the number of years he was an Apostle.

Edited January 18, 2018 by cinepro

[CMZ]

38 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Not quite.  President Nelson and President Oaks have been Apostles for the same number of years.

Elder Nelson and Elder Oaks were called on the same day (April 6) in 1984, but President Oaks was out of town for a few weeks and couldn't be ordained until May, while President Nelson was ordained in early April (over Conference weekend).

This is how it was announced at that Conference:

According to this article, Nelson was called on April 6, 1984.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695137/Read-1984-bio-of-President-Nelson-when-he-was-called-to-be-an-apostle.html

And according to this article, Oaks was also called on the same day (in this case, he was literally "called" since he was out of town):

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695136/Read-1984-bio-of-President-Oaks-life-at-the-time-of-his-call-to-be-an-apostle.html

Protocol would dictate that Nelson would be ordained first and be senior because he is older anyway, but in this case, President Nelson became the Prophet because he was older on April 6, 1984, not because of the number of years he was an Apostle.

Yes, it's by length of time as an apostle but when more than one apostle is called at the same time they then go by biological age. At least they did it that way until the last batch of three, who are not exactly in age order. But I'm telling myself it's because they were privately issued calls into the Quorum of the Twelve in the order you see them appear on the general authorities chart and then they were publicly announced in general conference in that order. That's the only reasoning I can think of.

Edited January 18, 2018 by CMZ

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

In the broadcast of the new first Presidency, much was revealed as to the direction this presidency plans on taking the church.  President Nelson stated that they thought it important to "begin with the end in mind" by speaking from the temple.  It appears that the next phase of the church will not be focused so much on growth in numbers, but on growth in faith within the church.  President Nelson assured us that we will continue to fulfill the mandate to take the gospel to every people, but emphasized the focus on increased spiritual endowment and power, as did President Eyring.  I am excited for this increased focus on spiritual maturity in faith and endowment. It is so needed.  I pray for President Nelson and hope that he will be the spiritual leader that the church desperately needs right now, to guide us into the assurance, peace, and spiritual satiation of living waters through increased faith.  This broadcast gave me much hope to that end.  

President Eyring made this direction abundantly clear:

President Nelson spoke along those same lines:

I have a feeling that this will be a great time of sifting and strengthening of those who will hear and heed the word of God.  It appears that this will be a presidency with a strong emphasis on endowments of power, faith, increased personal revelation, peace, and temple worship.  We so need that right now, in sifting through the many competing voices of the political and secular world.  I, for one, am looking forward to this emphasis of internal spiritual growth and strength.

Thoughts?

I also see a strong encouragement to come back for those who have strayed. This is reminiscent of the early days of President Benson’s Presidency. 

[clarkgoble]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I also see a strong encouragement to come back for those who have strayed. This is reminiscent of the early days of President Benson’s Presidency. 

In more ways than one. All the hyperventilating and overreacting was like how liberal Mormons felt when Pres. Benson was called. 

[Calm]

"Elder Nelson and Elder Oaks were called on the same day (April 6) in 1984, but President Oaks was out of town for a few weeks and couldn't be ordained until May, while President Nelson was ordained in early April (over Conference weekend)."

I wonder if Pres. Oaks is thinking "wow, I am glad it was me out of town back then and not him".

[CMZ]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

"Elder Nelson and Elder Oaks were called on the same day (April 6) in 1984, but President Oaks was out of town for a few weeks and couldn't be ordained until May, while President Nelson was ordained in early April (over Conference weekend)."

I wonder if Pres. Oaks is thinking "wow, I am glad it was me out of town back then and not him".

Even if he wasn't out of town they probably still given Nelson higher seniority by virtue of being older than Elder Oaks.

[Calm]

"

"Looking back on it, I'm sure my problems were due to the emotional disturbance of losing my father and mother at the same time. But as far as I was concerned at the time, I was just the dumbest boy in the world."

However, he didn't remain that way for long. Two years after his mother's breakdown, she recovered. She obtained a teaching position in Vernal, Utah, 180 miles east of Salt Lake City, where the family was reunited. Vernal was also where young Dallin came under the influence of Pearl Schafer, his fifth-grade teacher.

"It was a combination of a loving teacher and putting our family back together that helped put me back together," Elder Oaks said. "That first year in Vernal turned me around.""

I feel horrible for his pain, (I didn't permanently lose my dad, but Mom never got past the point she had a limited life to prevent the nervous breakdown, thankfully she could see where her life was going and got support from dad to keep it from completely tanking...but we got sent away as well and later Mom was there physically for us, but not there in some other ways) but I am grateful knowing he had the experience of a mother who wasn't close to the ideal, who couldn't manage life for a few years and therefore his expectation of what women and men should be doing in their lives is probably more reaIistic than those with parents who provided constant stability.  That experience of loss of a pretty perfect parent gives one a very different view of life, not having the security you once knew.  I think if you can move past resentment into understanding and acceptance, you become more empathetic to others' hardship.  Next 'best' thing is getting disabled oneself enough you stop feeling conflicted over having to make drastic choices on putting aside good things.  It becomes easier to see others' less expansive efforts in a positive light, imo.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, CMZ said:

Even if he wasn't out of town they probably still given Nelson higher seniority by virtue of being older than Elder Oaks.

Even with the delay of ordaining?  Since it was an 8 year difference, I can see that as possible.  Seems there was a lot of weight put earlier on ordination dates though, so I wonder.

[Gray]

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

he was foreordained to be

In order for that to be true, God would have to have some hand in the deaths of each general authority - a grim theology, to be sure.

[Gray]

I do think it's more important for the church to focus on spiritual maturity rather than just growth. But, I'm not sure their efforts so far on that front (in the last couple of years) have been very effective. Maybe President Nelson will have more success.

[Atheist Mormon]

14 hours ago, pogi said:

Thoughts?

How is this reshuffling the Presidency will help worldwide church to help it's proselytizing efforts in Western part of the world?