Experiment of breaking with Scouts before the official break-up

[rongo]

We only "do" Scouts with the deacons, anyway (Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmaster), and never actually did Venturing or Varsity, even before the Church pulled out of it. We called an inactive brother to be YM President, with the mandate that he and his presidency rise to the occasion and plan and execute activities with the boys that build faith, explore and build competency and skills, and have fun ---- completely outside of Scouting. He was concerned about the Scouting aspect when I called him, and I told him that the younger boys are taken care of, and that his focus activity-wise would be on th e14-18 year-olds. So far, he has been attending Church and doing a great job, so mission accomplished.

However, my ward has had a very difficult time staffing Cub Scouts, both in terms of people who can physically do it (schedule, circumstances, etc.), and people who are willing to do it (most people do it when called due to obedience, not for any love of it. They hate it!). We have had a lot of turnover due to burnout after people give it the old college try, and have had to replace a lot of people, revolving door-style. The bottom of the barrel has been scraped, and there are simply no other people left to call without trying to manipulate and twist arms of very inactive people or people with dubious potential for being consistent and doing the calling. Yes, we have prayed about it. We realize that this could be a "back of the Ensign story" and just what the doctor ordered to bring someone back into activity. The fuel and potential for this is spent, we feel.

I proposed to the primary counselor over Cub Scouts that we do our own program through the primary presidency and bishopric, assisted by parents as needed --- but without formal callings being issued. Similar to activity day for girls, but with good activities held monthly for boys ages 8-11 with the Faith in God principles as the objectives. With the money no longer spent on uniforms, belt loops, camp fees, etc., we could do a lot of amazing things with our boys outside of the constraints of Scouting. I floated the idea of buying chemistry sets, rocket kits, doing baking and cooking, sewing, sports, magic tricks, balloon animals, doing career exploration, learning history ---- literally an endless array of skills and interests with a bearing on later career, education, mission, fatherhood, and Church service. She was very excited about the idea. 

I spoke with the stake president about this in my PPI last night. His enthusiasm was more muted than ours (  ), but he didn't oppose it --- especially when I went through our ward list and showed him that the barrel literally has nothing left to scrape (many of our very best are in stake callings or have been sent to outlying branches to bolster them). 

I'm excited! I think we are in a position in our ward to finally be free of the Scouting millstone. Between the primary presidency, bishopric, and invited parents, I think we can provide interesting and fun activities in a better way that Cub Scouting did. 

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, rongo said:

We only "do" Scouts with the deacons, anyway (Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmaster), and never actually did Venturing or Varsity, even before the Church pulled out of it. We called an inactive brother to be YM President, with the mandate that he and his presidency rise to the occasion and plan and execute activities with the boys that build faith, explore and build competency and skills, and have fun ---- completely outside of Scouting. He was concerned about the Scouting aspect when I called him, and I told him that the younger boys are taken care of, and that his focus activity-wise would be on th e14-18 year-olds. So far, he has been attending Church and doing a great job, so mission accomplished.

However, my ward has had a very difficult time staffing Cub Scouts, both in terms of people who can physically do it (schedule, circumstances, etc.), and people who are willing to do it (most people do it when called due to obedience, not for any love of it. They hate it!). We have had a lot of turnover due to burnout after people give it the old college try, and have had to replace a lot of people, revolving door-style. The bottom of the barrel has been scraped, and there are simply no other people left to call without trying to manipulate and twist arms of very inactive people or people with dubious potential for being consistent and doing the calling. Yes, we have prayed about it. We realize that this could be a "back of the Ensign story" and just what the doctor ordered to bring someone back into activity. The fuel and potential for this is spent, we feel.

I proposed to the primary counselor over Cub Scouts that we do our own program through the primary presidency and bishopric, assisted by parents as needed --- but without formal callings being issued. Similar to activity day for girls, but with good activities held monthly for boys ages 8-11 with the Faith in God principles as the objectives. With the money no longer spent on uniforms, belt loops, camp fees, etc., we could do a lot of amazing things with our boys outside of the constraints of Scouting. I floated the idea of buying chemistry sets, rocket kits, doing baking and cooking, sewing, sports, magic tricks, balloon animals, doing career exploration, learning history ---- literally an endless array of skills and interests with a bearing on later career, education, mission, fatherhood, and Church service. She was very excited about the idea. 

I spoke with the stake president about this in my PPI last night. His enthusiasm was more muted than ours (  ), but he didn't oppose it --- especially when I went through our ward list and showed him that the barrel literally has nothing left to scrape (many of our very best are in stake callings or have been sent to outlying branches to bolster them). 

I'm excited! I think we are in a position in our ward to finally be free of the Scouting millstone. Between the primary presidency, bishopric, and invited parents, I think we can provide interesting and fun activities in a better way that Cub Scouting did. 

I think it's worth a try.  I am a big believer in the value of calling people and setting them apart.

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I think it's worth a try.  I am a big believer in the value of calling people and setting them apart.

I am, too. Normally.  By its nature, this thing might have to be ad hoc --- more so than with Cub Scouts. Currently, we only have 1 of the 6 den leaders called, and calling another 5 who can do it and do it reasonably consistently is a big hurdle. So, circumstances might carry the day. 

We are keenly aware of the need to have proper supervision with this. 

[ksfisher]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

I am, too. Normally.  By its nature, this thing might have to be ad hoc --- more so than with Cub Scouts. Currently, we only have 1 of the 6 den leaders called, and calling another 5 who can do it and do it reasonably consistently is a big hurdle. So, circumstances might carry the day. 

We are keenly aware of the need to have proper supervision with this. 

Staffing Cub Scouts always seems to be a challenge.  In my stake it's done on a stake level (no ward has enough boys that age to make running the program on the ward level work), but even then it's always seemed difficult to find enough people who are available at the same time.

[CV75]

28 minutes ago, rongo said:

We only "do" Scouts with the deacons, anyway (Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmaster), and never actually did Venturing or Varsity, even before the Church pulled out of it. We called an inactive brother to be YM President, with the mandate that he and his presidency rise to the occasion and plan and execute activities with the boys that build faith, explore and build competency and skills, and have fun ---- completely outside of Scouting. He was concerned about the Scouting aspect when I called him, and I told him that the younger boys are taken care of, and that his focus activity-wise would be on th e14-18 year-olds. So far, he has been attending Church and doing a great job, so mission accomplished.

However, my ward has had a very difficult time staffing Cub Scouts, both in terms of people who can physically do it (schedule, circumstances, etc.), and people who are willing to do it (most people do it when called due to obedience, not for any love of it. They hate it!). We have had a lot of turnover due to burnout after people give it the old college try, and have had to replace a lot of people, revolving door-style. The bottom of the barrel has been scraped, and there are simply no other people left to call without trying to manipulate and twist arms of very inactive people or people with dubious potential for being consistent and doing the calling. Yes, we have prayed about it. We realize that this could be a "back of the Ensign story" and just what the doctor ordered to bring someone back into activity. The fuel and potential for this is spent, we feel.

I proposed to the primary counselor over Cub Scouts that we do our own program through the primary presidency and bishopric, assisted by parents as needed --- but without formal callings being issued. Similar to activity day for girls, but with good activities held monthly for boys ages 8-11 with the Faith in God principles as the objectives. With the money no longer spent on uniforms, belt loops, camp fees, etc., we could do a lot of amazing things with our boys outside of the constraints of Scouting. I floated the idea of buying chemistry sets, rocket kits, doing baking and cooking, sewing, sports, magic tricks, balloon animals, doing career exploration, learning history ---- literally an endless array of skills and interests with a bearing on later career, education, mission, fatherhood, and Church service. She was very excited about the idea. 

I spoke with the stake president about this in my PPI last night. His enthusiasm was more muted than ours (  ), but he didn't oppose it --- especially when I went through our ward list and showed him that the barrel literally has nothing left to scrape (many of our very best are in stake callings or have been sent to outlying branches to bolster them). 

I'm excited! I think we are in a position in our ward to finally be free of the Scouting millstone. Between the primary presidency, bishopric, and invited parents, I think we can provide interesting and fun activities in a better way that Cub Scouting did. 

I celebrate the genius of the flexibility for local adaptation where needed. I'd also encourage you to identify the best practices that ensure everyone's safety, both physically (especially the children) and financially. As you mentioned the budget, there might be some consideration for how accidents, injuries and litigation might be covered were anything to go amiss. The scouting organization has some solid resources that can be copied for safety and liability.

Edited January 5, 2018 by CV75

[RevTestament]

12 minutes ago, rongo said:

We only "do" Scouts with the deacons, anyway (Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmaster), and never actually did Venturing or Varsity, even before the Church pulled out of it. We called an inactive brother to be YM President, with the mandate that he and his presidency rise to the occasion and plan and execute activities with the boys that build faith, explore and build competency and skills, and have fun ---- completely outside of Scouting. He was concerned about the Scouting aspect when I called him, and I told him that the younger boys are taken care of, and that his focus activity-wise would be on th e14-18 year-olds. So far, he has been attending Church and doing a great job, so mission accomplished.

However, my ward has had a very difficult time staffing Cub Scouts, both in terms of people who can physically do it (schedule, circumstances, etc.), and people who are willing to do it (most people do it when called due to obedience, not for any love of it. They hate it!). We have had a lot of turnover due to burnout after people give it the old college try, and have had to replace a lot of people, revolving door-style. The bottom of the barrel has been scraped, and there are simply no other people left to call without trying to manipulate and twist arms of very inactive people or people with dubious potential for being consistent and doing the calling. Yes, we have prayed about it. We realize that this could be a "back of the Ensign story" and just what the doctor ordered to bring someone back into activity. The fuel and potential for this is spent, we feel.

I proposed to the primary counselor over Cub Scouts that we do our own program through the primary presidency and bishopric, assisted by parents as needed --- but without formal callings being issued. Similar to activity day for girls, but with good activities held monthly for boys ages 8-11 with the Faith in God principles as the objectives. With the money no longer spent on uniforms, belt loops, camp fees, etc., we could do a lot of amazing things with our boys outside of the constraints of Scouting. I floated the idea of buying chemistry sets, rocket kits, doing baking and cooking, sewing, sports, magic tricks, balloon animals, doing career exploration, learning history ---- literally an endless array of skills and interests with a bearing on later career, education, mission, fatherhood, and Church service. She was very excited about the idea. 

I spoke with the stake president about this in my PPI last night. His enthusiasm was more muted than ours (  ), but he didn't oppose it --- especially when I went through our ward list and showed him that the barrel literally has nothing left to scrape (many of our very best are in stake callings or have been sent to outlying branches to bolster them). 

I'm excited! I think we are in a position in our ward to finally be free of the Scouting millstone. Between the primary presidency, bishopric, and invited parents, I think we can provide interesting and fun activities in a better way that Cub Scouting did. 

I have said I like the idea of floating away from scouting, and am glad there is someone in the Church brave enough to take on this initiative. Speaking from personal experience, my kids loved cub scouting. As they got older, however, their enthusiasm for scouting diminished, and my wife was usually pushing them to go. Despite my wife's threat not to allow our boys to drive her car unless they became Eagle scouts, our youngest did not pursue his eagle after helping his older two brothers. Scouting has changed, and it has become somewhat expensive to have uniforms, and buy all the paraphernalia. With changes in scout policies also impinging on Church standards, I see nothing wrong with pursuing our own program, and I think the Church has started to do so. This is an area I would really like to see Pres. Nelson's presidency step up to the plate and work on - a comprehensive church-wide published program apart from a third party program that is seeing lots of money go towards supporting an unnecessary administration. I think this is a critical area the Church has been distancing itself from. The number of Church dances is way down. Church basketball has fallen out of vogue. The number of ways Church members can socialize and learn together has diminished. I think we need to reverse that direction, and am glad you are willing to experiment in this regard. I would hope you could actually receive some support as a pilot program for the Church to find what will work, and applaud your effort. I hope the church will publish its own materials on-line to provide programs and activities for our youth. Accomplishments and awards could take the form of a standard attractive plaque of some kind which would allow additional wedges or metallic links to be added representing new accomplishments - much like scouts but perhaps produced in-house by the Church or outsourced. Of course I am picturing something like the scouting awards program, but it could be innovated. Advances in scriptural learning could also be recognized such as reading the BoM, the NT, the OT, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. There are just so many things the Church could promote - scripture trivia teams, stake plays, etc. I've noticed that Church stages are also becoming a thing of the past. The Church could write scripts for re-enactments. Such would provide new tools for parents to use in addition to those already provided. The best of scouting could be retained while dropping the expensive, less popular or less desired aspects. The Church could provide a great smorgasbord of activities for each age group all on-line. Today's youth are being pulled in many different directions, and I feel the Church should be providing the primary pull... This would help parents keep their youth active with church offering lots of ideas and things for them to do. This type of thing would allow the Church to innovate. Suggestions could easily be made on-line. Such would allow the program to evolve with the needs of our youth rather than being stuck within the confines of a third-party program.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Similar to activity day for girls, but with good activities held monthly for boys ages 8-11 with the Faith in God principles as the objectives.

Welcome to what the rest of the Church already does!

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Similar to activity day for girls, but with good activities held monthly for boys ages 8-11 with the Faith in God principles as the objectives. 

Similar to the girls but with good activities huh?  Might as well go through the trouble of providing the boys and girls with good activities I'd say.  

Other than that, sounds interesting.  

[clarkgoble]

Girls can have good activities. In many wards they have fantastic activities. Honestly I think part of the burnout is the difficulty of coming up with all the activities in a strong way. This is helped by once a month having pack meeting. However at times I think the way Activities Days is done (alternative weeks) allows for much better activities and gives families a bit of a break. As a practical matter our ward pretty well made pack meeting to include the girls. Of course the badges (which we'd years ago changed to treats since the badges were expensive and none of the boys cared about them or the pins) were still only given to the boys. However the activities included all the kids who came - even with the pinewood derby or the raingutter regalia. (Which to save money we'd switched to using pop bottles, foam insulation, straws, and tong depressors - and which were vastly more fun than the official wood models)

I'm here speaking about cub scouts. Our boy scouts is a bit more formally done. However I suspect it could go the same way. My son hates boy scouts and refuses to go because he finds it boring. I suspect he's not alone. 

Anyway, I loved cub scouts when I was a kid. Boy scouts less so. But I think it's a movement that fitted a particular place and time and just doesn't work anymore. I know people complain about scouts taking resources that should go to young women, but honestly I think the young women's program is much more successful in many ways. It seems like scouts is one of those things we do because that's how it's been done. I'd like to see a big rethink of things.

I'd note that the Utah County scout camp -- Camp Jeremiah -- takes activity day groups as well. In fact this last year none of the boys wanted to go but all the activity girls from our ward went and had a blast.

Edited January 5, 2018 by clarkgoble

[rongo]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Similar to the girls but with good activities huh?  Might as well go through the trouble of providing the boys and girls with good activities I'd say.   

It wasn't a Freudian slip. I've long had holy envy for activity day vs. Cubs or YW vs. Scouting. The girls have long had the "good" activities, in my book.  

As it is, the activity day leaders and girls are free to do pretty much whatever they want. What we have in mind is monthly for the boys, as opposed to twice a month for the girls how it is currently. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by rongo

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

Girls can have good activities. In many wards they have fantastic activities. Honestly I think part of the burnout is the difficulty of coming up with all the activities in a strong way. This is helped by once a month having pack meeting. However at times I think the way Activities Days is done (alternative weeks) allows for much better activities and gives families a bit of a break. As a practical matter our ward pretty well made pack meeting to include the girls. Of course the badges (which we'd years ago changed to treats since the badges were expensive and none of the boys cared about them or the pins) were still only given to the boys. However the activities included all the kids who came - even with the pinewood derby or the raingutter regalia. (Which to save money we'd switched to using pop bottles, foam insulation, straws, and tong depressors - and which were vastly more fun than the official wood models)

I'm here speaking about cub scouts. Our boy scouts is a bit more formally done. However I suspect it could go the same way. My son hates boy scouts and refuses to go because he finds it boring. I suspect he's not alone. 

Anyway, I loved cub scouts when I was a kid. Boy scouts less so. But I think it's a movement that fitted a particular place and time and just doesn't work anymore. I know people complain about scouts taking resources that should go to young women, but honestly I think the young women's program is much more successful in many ways. It seems like scouts is one of those things we do because that's how it's been done. I'd like to see a big rethink of things.

I'd note that the Utah County scout camp -- Camp Jeremiah -- takes activity day groups as well. In fact this last year none of the boys wanted to go but all the activity girls from our ward went and had a blast.

My son "volunteered" at Camp Jeremiah, and I think he had as much fun as the kids. I think he didn't mind the little bit of pay - the pay started as the primary reason, but after that, he kept wanting to go to Jeremiah every year, when he could have tried to make more money in order to pay for his mission. He just liked "volunteering" at Jeremiah. Talking about it always brought a smile to his face. It gave him a chance to learn leadership skills, etc. This is the type of thing the Church should continue to pursue. Unfortunately, not every stake or ward has a camp Jeremiah available to it. We didn't have the money to send our kids off to camp, but the day camp at Jeremiah and the scout camp at Maple Dell were probably better substitutes anyway. If the Church pulls out of scouting altogether, maybe it can pick up some of these camps, and they could be more available for ward use as well - eliminating some camping fees. It may not matter much soon anyway. 

I am really surprised the boys didn't want to go to Camp Jeremiah - what's the world coming to anyway???? I think a day camp is a good environment for potential combined activities as well. I am glad to see your ward has strong programs for the girls. My spiel is if the Church comes up with a whole program, then it won't be such a chore for individual wards to continually come up with activities - they can merely go online and choose from the many tried and true activities suggested for each age group with any printable materials being made readily accessible - both combined activities and gender-appropriate activities. Such an online resource would also allow for innovations to gain traction more easily. Perhaps even region-specific activities could be listed. This may allow games and activities from other regions to be tried. Anyway, I see lots of room for the Church to be more active in promoting healthy youth lives and learning. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's as good as it's going to get.... nah.

[JAHS]

Being a scoutmaster is the only calling I have ever refused. At the time they asked me I was married with a kid, going to college full-time and then working until 11:00PM every night at the hospital after school.
Not only did I not have time for it we had no money to buy all the equipment and uniform I would have to get.
The only thing I Liked about scouting as a kid was the week long scout camps we went to each year. 

 

[clarkgoble]

Scouts is hard. I was called as the Priest age leader (forget the technical calling) - but I taught the lesson on Sunday and was supposed to help on Wednesday -- that was a hard calling and thankfully they released me after a few months due to time issues. It's a ridiculously important calling but man that is hard to do if you don't have a normal 9-5 job.

[Bob Crockett]

I didn't have a father growing up. He was deceased.  I loved Cub Scouting, the badges, the activities, the uniform, the interaction with other adults than my mom.  My Cubmaster was a wonderful man, one of Joseph Fielding Smith's sons, who later became our Bishop.  A great program.

Boy Scouts, not so much for me.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

Scouts is hard. I was called as the Priest age leader (forget the technical calling) - but I taught the lesson on Sunday and was supposed to help on Wednesday -- that was a hard calling and thankfully they released me after a few months due to time issues. It's a ridiculously important calling but man that is hard to do if you don't have a normal 9-5 job.

Callings working with youth take so much time and effort.  

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I didn't have a father growing up. He was deceased.  I loved Cub Scouting, the badges, the activities, the uniform, the interaction with other adults than my mom.  My Cubmaster was a wonderful man, one of Joseph Fielding Smith's sons, who later became our Bishop.  A great program.

Boy Scouts, not so much for me.

It is extremely dependent on the kind of leaders one has.  My husband his first or second year has a leader who introduced himself by telling the kids they were all losers.  Hated Scouts during that time.  Got a new leader who was full of love and enthusiasm and finished up with a positive attitude.  He always wanted to b e called to Young Men's but never was.  Might be too old now, but he has started a new health routine so who knows.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Calm

[rongo]

I have gone for the entire week of girls and Scout camp each of the eight years I have been a bishop. Summer camps are kind of the highlight for many, but can be done without paying $500+ per youth . . .  

Cub Scouts can be very good, but it is so difficult to staff, and let's be honest ---- all Scouting branches have evolved into a giant pyramid scheme as far as trying to make as much extortionate money as possible for the organization. The activities, awards, uniforms, and camps should not cost nearly what they do cost. 

[bsjkki]

The scouting program is very hard to carry out in an effective way. Cub Scouts takes way too many adults to staff the way it is supposed to be staffed. There is a steep learning curve and in my very transient ward, the revolving door of leaders makes an effective program hard to run. It costs more than the rest of the Primary budget combined. I discovered most of the parents do not want to buy books and uniforms and without a physical book, not a lot of time is spent by parents helping their boys advance. Online books are not the same. It only takes a few great den leaders to have a really good program but I have lost 4 den leaders in the last six months and we are starting over...the whole thing falls apart for awhile. 

With all that said, I didn't know we could just scrap the program and do what we want. I know where authorized by the church, we are supposed to run cub scouts. In all other areas, the church should run the Faith in God for boys program. I could not find an "out" for even small wards and branches. If each ward could decide not to do cub scouts, I would scrap it too. I have found Cub Scouts, Activity Days and 11-year-old scouts take dedicated self starters to be successful.

 "What Is the Cub Scout Leader's Responsibility for the Faith in God Award?Where Scouting is authorized by the Church, Scout activities take the place of activity days for boys ages 8 through 11 (see Handbook 2, 11.5.3). Find ways to combine activities in the Faith in God guidebook with Cub Scout and 11-year old Scout activities. Many activities fulfill requirements in both programs."https://www.lds.org/callings/primary/leader-resources/scouting-in-primary/training-and-resources?lang=eng

 

 

[Que]

I am currently Scoutmaster in my ward. Fourth time, 10 years total. Also been Varsity Coach, Venturing Crew Advisor, Cubmaster, and virtually all YM positions except Bishop... My experience is diametrically opposite almost all opinions stated above except for the difficulty staffing Cubs (I was bishopric 2nd counselor) and the failure on the part of the vast majority of adult varsity and venturing leaders to even give the program a valid try... So I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but my mileage has varied...

[strappinglad]

Our most successful Scouting programs were run by leaders who themselves were dedicated outdoors men and had little trouble helping the boys have a good experience. The worst programs were run by leaders who had no outdoor experience and simply fell back on basketball night every Tuesday. In today's modern society, it will be difficult to find people with the skills needed to run the old Scout programs as they were originally established. Scouting has tried to change to match the changes in society. It has not been very successful.

[Rain]

It's too bad you can't do online training with lots of people and then call some of them to cub scouts. My attitude really changed about cub scouts with the online training in a way that I have never seen duplicated with live people training. I can tell you if I understood more I would accept being a den leader faster.

I use scoutbook.com not just for keeping track of records, but because last I knew they still hadn't updated the current paper books with the new requirements. You can stick the supplement in there, but it is a pain to flip back and forth to see what is now required.

I tell my parents straight out that I don't care about the rewards. That according to the whole reasoning behind scouts the awards are to help give incentive to live the principles of the scout law. President Uchtdorf told us to simplify. Scout online training teaches you to make things simple and fun.  So for me the scout law principles come first before making sure that every boy earns every thing.

Before starting the program I would highly suggest going through the online training to see what you can learn from it.  

One reason people today won't accept calls is their only experiences are with pack meeting.  Keep those meetings short and fun. They are much more effective.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Rain

[rongo]

11 hours ago, bsjkki said:

With all that said, I didn't know we could just scrap the program and do what we want. I know where authorized by the church, we are supposed to run cub scouts. In all other areas, the church should run the Faith in God for boys program. I could not find an "out" for even small wards and branches. If each ward could decide not to do cub scouts, I would scrap it too. I have found Cub Scouts, Activity Days and 11-year-old scouts take dedicated self starters to be successful.

We can't actually, technically "scrap the program and do what we want." That's why I talked to the stake president about it. I do believe in the principle of local adaptation, and given our circumstances and situation, we are going to do this. That's why the OP has the word "experiment" in it . . .  

What I have in my favor is the fact that there isn't really a solution to finding 5 other den leaders. This became clear to the stake president when we went through some lists (he's lived in the stake almost as long as we have, and he knows many of the people in our wards. We went from one small ward to seven in 16 years). It helps when I say, "Okay. Can you suggest five people off of these lists?" And it becomes clear that it simply cannot be done, for various reasons when you get to details and circumstances. A non-Cub Scout program for my ward is more appropriate.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

We can't actually, technically "scrap the program and do what we want." That's why I talked to the stake president about it. I do believe in the principle of local adaptation, and given our circumstances and situation, we are going to do this. That's why the OP has the word "experiment" in it . . .  

What I have in my favor is the fact that there isn't really a solution to finding 5 other den leaders. This became clear to the stake president when we went through some lists (he's lived in the stake almost as long as we have, and he knows many of the people in our wards. We went from one small ward to seven in 16 years). It helps when I say, "Okay. Can you suggest five people off of these lists?" And it becomes clear that it simply cannot be done, for various reasons when you get to details and circumstances. A non-Cub Scout program for my ward is more appropriate.

I think what you especially have in your favor is that you're a bishop.

[rockpond]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

We can't actually, technically "scrap the program and do what we want." That's why I talked to the stake president about it. I do believe in the principle of local adaptation, and given our circumstances and situation, we are going to do this. That's why the OP has the word "experiment" in it . . .  

What I have in my favor is the fact that there isn't really a solution to finding 5 other den leaders. This became clear to the stake president when we went through some lists (he's lived in the stake almost as long as we have, and he knows many of the people in our wards. We went from one small ward to seven in 16 years). It helps when I say, "Okay. Can you suggest five people off of these lists?" And it becomes clear that it simply cannot be done, for various reasons when you get to details and circumstances. A non-Cub Scout program for my ward is more appropriate.

I love this, Rongo.  I hope you will consider providing us an update in 6 months to a year and let us know how it is going.

While I love scouting, I would also love to see the Church develop its own program using the ideals you discuss here and the Faith in God / Duty to God programs.

Cub Scouts in particular is so expensive.  When I was a bishopric counselor over primary, our Cub Scout budget was around $1,500 per year.  The Activity Days budget was originally around $250 per year (similar number of girls).  I encouraged the primary presidency to request a bit more for Activity Days to try to help balance things.  By the end of my time in the bishopric the Activity Days budget was around $400 per year and the AD leaders were telling me that they absolutely did not need more money.  The reality is that the bulk of the cub scout budget goes to awards.  Fun, high-quality activities can be done (for boy or girls) on a relative shoe-string.

Edited January 6, 2018 by rockpond

[Rain]

9 hours ago, rongo said:

We can't actually, technically "scrap the program and do what we want." That's why I talked to the stake president about it. I do believe in the principle of local adaptation, and given our circumstances and situation, we are going to do this. That's why the OP has the word "experiment" in it . . .  

What I have in my favor is the fact that there isn't really a solution to finding 5 other den leaders. This became clear to the stake president when we went through some lists (he's lived in the stake almost as long as we have, and he knows many of the people in our wards. We went from one small ward to seven in 16 years). It helps when I say, "Okay. Can you suggest five people off of these lists?" And it becomes clear that it simply cannot be done, for various reasons when you get to details and circumstances. A non-Cub Scout program for my ward is more appropriate.

I know that the other ward that we have combined with asked at least 6 people before they got one to accept and she just moved in.