Popular Post bsjkki Posted December 24, 2017 Popular Post Posted December 24, 2017 This was a fascinating article. The church is making exceptions to help the women in Hong Kong. I think it's great to see the church meet the needs of their members. http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/12/24/mormon-congregations-in-hong-kong-unlike-any-others-theyre-virtually-all-women-and-they-dont-just-hold-services-on-sundays/ "Their Sabbaths are not the same because their days off are not the same. So The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints established branches that provide the three-hour block of services on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays as well as Sundays. The branch president, a lay minister who must be a man, is the husband in a senior missionary couple, usually from the United States. Missionaries in the all-male priesthood bless and distribute the sacrament, or communion. Once every three months, the Hong Kong LDS Temple (serving the city’s nearly 25,000 members) opens on a Sunday — unlike other Mormon temples — for workers who can attend only on that day. This accommodation means that women take on roles normally filled by men in the all-volunteer staff. They assist the branch president, keep track of money and direct proselytizing efforts. The Relief Society president, who supervises the faith’s female organization, essentially oversees the congregation." 10
Popular Post Calm Posted December 24, 2017 Popular Post Posted December 24, 2017 It shows how much is policy and how much is doctrinal as well. I am not suggesting we change in general, but it is good to be aware of where lines actually are. 9
Jeanne Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bsjkki said: This was a fascinating article. The church is making exceptions to help the women in Hong Kong. I think it's great to see the church meet the needs of their members. http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/12/24/mormon-congregations-in-hong-kong-unlike-any-others-theyre-virtually-all-women-and-they-dont-just-hold-services-on-sundays/ "Their Sabbaths are not the same because their days off are not the same. So The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints established branches that provide the three-hour block of services on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays as well as Sundays. The branch president, a lay minister who must be a man, is the husband in a senior missionary couple, usually from the United States. Missionaries in the all-male priesthood bless and distribute the sacrament, or communion. Once every three months, the Hong Kong LDS Temple (serving the city’s nearly 25,000 members) opens on a Sunday — unlike other Mormon temples — for workers who can attend only on that day. This accommodation means that women take on roles normally filled by men in the all-volunteer staff. They assist the branch president, keep track of money and direct proselytizing efforts. The Relief Society president, who supervises the faith’s female organization, essentially oversees the congregation." I think this is amazing and shows a cooperation that we don't see inn the States here. It shows many ways to compromise with time and talent...and relies less on absolute rules and roles for church members. Edited December 24, 2017 by Jeanne 1
Duncan Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 My BIL served in Hong Kong in the early 1980's, during the 18th month mission era, he is flabbergasted!
Scott Lloyd Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: I think this is amazing and shows a cooperation that we don't see inn the States here. It shows many ways to compromise with time and talent...and relies less on absolute rules and roles for church members. I doubt any of this is transpiring without the knowledge and blessing, if not the direction, of general leadership at Church headquarters.
JAHS Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: provide the three-hour block of services on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays as well as Sundays. I believe LDS services have always been conducted on Friday in Muslim countries and Saturday in Israel complying with local religious traditions. 4
Calm Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 The unusual factor is having multiple days for worship. I don't believe in most places that have it on Friday or Saturday, they also have it on Sunday as well (though I suppose it may be possible in such places that also have American bases that hold to the usual weekend structure).
Jeanne Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 39 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I doubt any of this is transpiring without the knowledge and blessing, if not the direction, of general leadership at Church headquarters. I agree...that is what I find amazing!! It is a good thing. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: I doubt any of this is transpiring without the knowledge and blessing, if not the direction, of general leadership at Church headquarters. And with the tacit knowledge and blessing of the Chinese Govt. 1
strappinglad Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 I wonder what is holding the men back from participating. Philosophy ?, circumstance?, tradition ?.... Any ideas?
Popular Post provoman Posted December 24, 2017 Popular Post Posted December 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, strappinglad said: I wonder what is holding the men back from participating. Philosophy ?, circumstance?, tradition ?.... Any ideas? Probably that the males do not take the kinds of jobs that these women work as "“foreign domestic workers” — a veritable army of women from the Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand and other nations who tend the city’s children, clean houses and cook meals for six days a week. " 6
cdowis Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, bsjkki said: Their Sabbaths are not the same This is a common accommodation for different cultures == Friday in Egypt and Saturday in Israel. GOOD GRIEF == I JUST HAD A BRILLIANT IDEA!!!!! Lots of people have to work on Sunday. Why not create a special multi-stake branch that meets on a nonSunday in large cities WOW! Edited December 24, 2017 by cdowis 2
Josh Khinder Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Ginger Snaps said: Fascinating! Thanks for sharing! This is the CHURCH in Singapore 1
kiwi57 Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 17 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: This is the CHURCH in Singapore Is it really? I thought it was a rock concert, or something. The funny thing is that these cool-groovy-hip-now-happening type churches were very popular back in the 1980's, but they've rather sharply dropped off since then. I wonder whether they have not contributed to the overall decline in religious activity in developed countries.
Jane_Doe Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 4:05 PM, provoman said: Probably that the males do not take the kinds of jobs that these women work as "“foreign domestic workers” — a veritable army of women from the Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand and other nations who tend the city’s children, clean houses and cook meals for six days a week. " Note: according to the article, these all-female branches are focused especially for these domestic workers (kind of like military wards). There are other normal family wards in the area as well.
Josh Khinder Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, kiwi57 said: Is it really? I thought it was a rock concert, or something. The funny thing is that these cool-groovy-hip-now-happening type churches were very popular back in the 1980's, but they've rather sharply dropped off since then. I wonder whether they have not contributed to the overall decline in religious activity in developed countries. would you be the first to condemn Israel for there Worship ? Never been to rock concert , do they Worship Jesus like the video ? Psalm 150 1 Praise the Lord! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty firmament! 2 Praise Him for His mighty acts; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness! 3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; Praise Him with the lute and harp! 4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! 5 Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with clashing cymbals! 6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord! Edited December 26, 2017 by Josh Khinder
Robert F. Smith Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: Note: according to the article, these all-female branches are focused especially for these domestic workers (kind of like military wards). There are other normal family wards in the area as well. Many LDS Chinese families have migrated to the USA from Hong Kong, a great many professionals among them. One patriarch of such a family (a surgeon) was my stake president in California. They make an extraordinary contribution to the Church. 2
rongo Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 2:57 PM, strappinglad said: I wonder what is holding the men back from participating. Philosophy ?, circumstance?, tradition ?.... Any ideas? Culture, to a large extent. My landlord is Malaysian. English is her 6th language, and her first language is a Chinese dialect (non-Mandarin or Cantonese). She learned Malay and English in school. They were in our ward, but moved back to Malaysia and we are housesitting/renting their house (they approached us about renting so that they could leave their things and know that the house would be well cared for). Upon moving back to Malaysia, she was immediately called again as RS president. As this article indicates, this is a much more robust calling there than it is here (and it is very robust here). She loves it, and it is very good for her to be desperately needed! Her ex-husband has been excommunicated, as well as all of her native Malaysian branch and district presidents going back many years. She says that serial adultery is deeply-embedded in the culture, and this makes running the Church difficult because of the dearth of worthy priesthood. Priesthood leadership is solely from missionaries, and she and other women play a much more prominent role. This is also huge for her husband, a high priest from the U.S., because it is helping him step up and feel needed. He was needed here (he was in our HP Group leadership), but over there, he is literally needed in a way that wasn't the case here. A large reason why she moved back was to help her husband step up. Granted, Malaysia is not Hong Kong, but there is a lot of cultural affinity and overlap. I suspect that many of the same problems afflicting Malaysia and Singapore are also present in Hong Kong. 2
Calm Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 2 hours ago, rongo said: Her ex-husband has been excommunicated, as well as all of her native Malaysian branch and district presidents going back many years. She says that serial adultery is deeply-embedded in the culture... I have been watching a number of Asian shows lately, many from Malaysian and Singapore. Serial adultery is one of the usual themes and most of the men and many of the women were acting like it was no big deal. One show had multiple mistresses of the old father living under one roof with the original wife and it was the duty and kindness of the wife to look after them...but there was some minor indignation for the son's wife when he started treating her the same way as if the current generation was trying to move past that, but hadn't. I was thinking that was for drama purposes, good to know it's not (I find watching international shows fascinating because so similar in most ways, but some glaring cultural differences in personal relationships and social hierarchy)
rongo Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 14 minutes ago, Calm said: I have been watching a number of Asian shows lately, many from Malaysian and Singapore. Serial adultery is one of the usual themes and most of the men and many of the women were acting like it was no big deal. One show had multiple mistresses of the old father living under one roof with the original wife and it was the duty and kindness of the wife to look after them...but there was some minor indignation for the son's wife when he started treating her the same way as if the current generation was trying to move past that, but hadn't. The article was also fascinating in highlighting the diversity of Hong Kong. Malaysian branches also have a veritable melting pot of languages and cultures. And, they are on the front lines dealing with real and difficult refugee issues ---- finding homes and basics for refugees with branch members. Some of these situations are really tricky, because of ties to Islam. This is why couple missionaries are so important. They are desperately needed to lead the church, but they also return with a sobering perspective that put our first world and US Mormon challenges into perspective. They appreciate what we have and what they have so much more by serving with people. 4
Robert F. Smith Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 2 hours ago, rongo said: Culture, to a large extent. My landlord is Malaysian. English is her 6th language, and her first language is a Chinese dialect (non-Mandarin or Cantonese). She learned Malay and English in school. They were in our ward, but moved back to Malaysia and we are housesitting/renting their house (they approached us about renting so that they could leave their things and know that the house would be well cared for). Upon moving back to Malaysia, she was immediately called again as RS president. As this article indicates, this is a much more robust calling there than it is here (and it is very robust here). She loves it, and it is very good for her to be desperately needed! Her ex-husband has been excommunicated, as well as all of her native Malaysian branch and district presidents going back many years. She says that serial adultery is deeply-embedded in the culture, and this makes running the Church difficult because of the dearth of worthy priesthood. Priesthood leadership is solely from missionaries, and she and other women play a much more prominent role. This is also huge for her husband, a high priest from the U.S., because it is helping him step up and feel needed. He was needed here (he was in our HP Group leadership), but over there, he is literally needed in a way that wasn't the case here. A large reason why she moved back was to help her husband step up. Granted, Malaysia is not Hong Kong, but there is a lot of cultural affinity and overlap. I suspect that many of the same problems afflicting Malaysia and Singapore are also present in Hong Kong. Malaysia is a very civilized country, although I am sorry to hear of the serial adultery in that culture.
Josh Khinder Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: would you be the first to condemn Israel for there Worship ? Psalm 150 1 Praise the Lord! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty firmament! 2 Praise Him for His mighty acts; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness! 3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; Praise Him with the lute and harp! 4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! 5 Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with clashing cymbals! 6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord! The Church in Australia
pogi Posted December 26, 2017 Posted December 26, 2017 17 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: would you be the first to condemn Israel for there Worship ? Never been to rock concert , do they Worship Jesus like the video ? Psalm 150 1 Praise the Lord! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty firmament! 2 Praise Him for His mighty acts; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness! 3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; Praise Him with the lute and harp! 4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! 5 Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with clashing cymbals! 6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord! I don't see the part that says, "Praise Him for filthy lucre!" Quote Men preaching and setting themselves up for a light to the world that they may get gain and praise of the world; they do not seek the welfare of Zion (2 Ne. 26:29). Feed the flock of God, not for filthy lucre, 1 Pet. 5:2. Churches which are built up to get gain must be brought low, 1 Ne. 22:23 (Morm. 8:32–41). Because of priestcrafts and iniquities, Jesus will be crucified, 2 Ne. 10:5. Were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it would prove their entire destruction, Alma 1:12. The Gentiles shall be filled with all manner of priestcrafts, 3 Ne. 16:10.
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