Feminism and church meetings

[Urloony]

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

It doesn't seem like an inappropriate subject for one sacrament meeting.  I don't know if I'd do it as the Christmas Sacrament Meeting, maybe the week before or something like that.

[juliann]

Oh. My. Gosh. We talk about men Sunday after Sunday after Sunday. We just don't label it "men in Christ's life" but that is what it is. And that is so ordinary it is unremarkable. But include women and all........ 

I don't even know what to say other than it is so very, very, very sad that women are not seen as significant enough by some to merit even one Sunday. Kudos to that ward, BTW. What a gift to the girls and young women who usually grow up in the church hearing and reading about men.

[Duncan]

One of my favourite quotations from Neylan McBaine

"there was a woman involved in almost every one of the Savior Jesus Christ’s mortal milestones. From his very first miracle facilitated by his mother, to revealing Himself as the “living water,” to being the subject of numerous parables, to being anointed by a woman hours before his death, to being the first witness of the resurrection… women were not just bystanders but engaged contributors to his ministry. They were symbols of the extent to which the Savior was willing to challenge the conventions of his culture and usher in a new social ideal. Compared to the way women were treated in the Savior’s own time and place, His treatment of them was radical. By involving not just his mother and female friends in his ministry, but by embracing the fallen woman, the daughter of a Gentile, the sick woman, the Samaritan woman, Jesus, through his example, challenged us as His followers to engage all women, trust them, lead with them, and lean on their spiritual power. Let us meet that challenge."

https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2012/to-do-the-business-of-the-church-a-cooperative-paradigm

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

Mother Mary was a woman...a woman in Jesus's life who gave birth to the Savior...another woman was with child also.the mother of John the Baptist...you know..nobody is here on the earth without their mother right?? Helllo??????  Feminist??? Ney...just reality...and about time!

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." [...] There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting.

I don't know. Sounds like a great topic to me. The Christmas sacrament meeting falls on Christmas Eve this year, and I seem to remember a story about one of the women in Christ's life that might kind of be relevant on that day.

 

Quote

 It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too."

I guess it depends on how it's done. One way would be to talk about the women in Christ's life and how Christ was transformative in their lives. 

Christ's Emancipation of Women in the New Testament would be a good place to start.

 

Quote

In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

I think the term "feminism" has come to carry a lot of political (and other) baggage these days. But, rightly understood, I think that all Mormons are feminists. We believe that women and men are equal before God and each other, and the only way to achieve the greatest gifts that God can bestow is to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, as equals. It's really a beautiful doctrine. 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Amulek

[Jeanne]

Just a comment here...but I won't mention it again and don't mean to take this off topic if I have done so...

But I remember reading many times those valiant sons..2000.  What their mothers were like..who they were and I why we did know any of them.  The Book of Mormon story that meant the most to me at the time...did not give a name...but Mother.

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Jeanne

[bluebell]

No, I don't think it's an example of feminism creeping into the church.

[Tacenda]

It's time.

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

I agree with Juliann, "kudos" to your ward for having this topic, but I also agree with you, it seems a strange topic for Christmas - not because it draws attention to important and remarkable women with inspiring stories, but because it Christmas.  Christmas is not a time to talk about other people in Christs life, be they men or women (except to point out how Christ affected them), it is a time to celebrate Christ, his birth, life, and atonement.

I don't think this is a sign of feminism infiltrating the church in toxic ways, it is simply a sign of bad judgment on topic choice for a Christmas meeting.  It wouldn't be the first time - you already mentioned celebrating Joseph's birthday on Christmas.  

Edited December 8, 2017 by pogi

[JLHPROF]

There may be feminism creeping into the Church.
I don't think this is remotely an example of it.
And what on earth could be inappropriate about it at Christmas - have you heard of Mary?  Elizabeth?

But I will say that if members think it's wrong to focus on Joseph Smith around Christmas, I don't see that focusing on Mary is much of an improvement, other than her presence at the nativity.

I wonder if they will mention his wives...

[juliann]

44 minutes ago, pogi said:

I agree with Juliann, "kudos" to your ward for having this topic, but I also agree with you, it seems a strange topic for Christmas - not because it draws attention to important and remarkable women with inspiring stories, but because it Christmas.  Christmas is not a time to talk about other people in Christs life, be they men or women (except to point out how Christ affected them), it is a time to celebrate Christ, his birth, life, and atonement.

 

Isn't that what it would be doing though? Pointing out about how Christ affected these women? There certainly isn't enough known about them in any other context to make it about their own lives. So I still don't understand the distinction being made. It is even possible...or meaningful...to talk about Christ without talking about "people?"  Again, the only objection seems to be when it comes to talking about female people instead of male people.

[cinepro]

I'm only okay with it if they use this Del Parson painting as the cover for the Sacrament Meeting program:

 

 

https://deseretbook.com/p/christ-young-women-5x7-matted-art-del-parson-75137?variant_id=23727-matted

[juliann]

3 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I'm only okay with it if they use this Del Parson painting as the cover for the Sacrament Meeting program:

 

He could make a LOT of money if he would make an app for that painting so our polygamy advocates could put their face in the place of Jesus'! 

[JLHPROF]

48 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I'm only okay with it if they use this Del Parson painting as the cover for the Sacrament Meeting program:

https://deseretbook.com/p/christ-young-women-5x7-matted-art-del-parson-75137?variant_id=23727-matted

That one is nice.
This one is more historically accurate.

Just check out those facial expressions.   

This one isn't bad either - and often displayed in Relief Society rooms too.

Then there's this more modern take:

 

[CV75]

6 hours ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

As wonderful a time of year Christmas is, I think as far as the Lord is concerned, 12/24/17 is just another sacrament meeting, the true purpose of which transcends the best of our traditions and movements.

“And their meetings were conducted by the church after the manner of the workings of the Spirit, and by the power of the Holy Ghost; for as the power of the Holy Ghost led them whether to preach, or to exhort, or to pray, or to supplicate, or to sing, even so it was done.” (Moroni 6:9). Ward leaders likewise plan the sacrament meeting, meeting the particular needs of those members to come unto Christ. I suppose that is being done everywhere across the Church.

[clarkgoble]

6 hours ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

While this seems pretty odd for a Christmas meeting I confess I don't see anything particularly feminist about it.

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

While this seems pretty odd for a Christmas meeting I confess I don't see anything particularly feminist about it.

That was my thought. It's like some bishoprics are trying to be too cute and fancy with their Christmas programs. The Joseph Smith-centric ones are weird --- it's Christmas. 

Ours is very heavy on music.

Why not wait until a regular sacrament meeting to do the "Women in Christ's life" topic? Why for the Christmas program?

[JLHPROF]

27 minutes ago, rongo said:

That was my thought. It's like some bishoprics are trying to be too cute and fancy with their Christmas programs. The Joseph Smith-centric ones are weird --- it's Christmas. 

Except Joseph was actually born on December 23rd.  Christ almost certainly wasn't born anywhere near December.
I'd say Joseph has more of a claim to be remembered by Mormons around this time of year.

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, cinepro said:

I'm only okay with it if they use this Del Parson painting as the cover for the Sacrament Meeting program:

 

 

https://deseretbook.com/p/christ-young-women-5x7-matted-art-del-parson-75137?variant_id=23727-matted

Creepy.

[Bobbieaware]

18 hours ago, Urloony said:

Our ward is prepping for its upcoming Christmas sacrament meeting and the topic for that day is "The Women in Christ's life." Deseret news had a nice article here on the women in Christ's life and it's possible that this article was the catalyst for our upcoming Christmas meeting. Is this a subtle example of feminism creeping into our sacrament meetings? There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting. It's akin to those Christmas sacrament meetings we've all been to where the speakers talk about Joseph Smith's birthday and his role as prophet, and then as a side note add "oh yeah, Jesus was important too." In recent years feminism has been infiltrating the church in far more high profile examples resulting in the excommunications of Kate Kelly and the like. Is feminism becoming more crafty in it's acceptance within the church?

Someday when the full story of Christ’s sojourn on earth is fully revealed and the sacred record of his life from infancy to his solemn final day in mortality is added to the scriptures, there will doubtless be many thrilling, highly enlightening and deeply moving stories concerning the sacred relationship that existed between the growing young Messiah and his blessed sainted mother. I’m sure we will learn of the indispensable roll Mary played in teaching her son, by both precept and example,  how to become the kind of man who possessed the necessary qualities of holiness needed to enable him to successfully offer a love-inspired redeeming sacrifice for the sins and pain of the mankind. I can’t wait to read that most wonderful book!  I’m sure many tears will stain my pillow when I do. If your Christmas Sacrament service can help to provide a little foretaste of what is being held in store, I would count you and your congregation most blessed indeed. This story deserves and needs to be told.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[JLHPROF]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Creepy.

Doesn't mean it's not accurate.

[strappinglad]

33 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Creepy.

Hey! , where is the diversity complaint squad ???

[Calm]

"There is obviously nothing wrong with this topic on any other given Sunday, it just seems a little odd to me that it would be the chosen topic for a Christmas meeting"

If one is used to a scripture story of the Annunciation and his birth, visit from Wise Men with appropriate Christmas music attached as the Christmas Sacarament meeting, I can see why it would feel strange.

One can tell the story of Christ's life in different ways...the events in his life, what was going on in the country or world, the teachings he taught, the relationships he had.

It is all about pointing out how he related to the world and the world related to him, what impact he had and can have on us.

Narrowing relationships to focus on the women in his life is actually a pretty good way to hit the highlights since the women are usually spoken of in any detail at crucial times...the Annunciation, birth, 12th year temple trip, a few stories illustrating his mission, preparation for death, death, and resurrection.  Baptism is the only main event I can think of where one can't tell about Christ and his life from the perspective of a woman in his life. (There might be more, just nothing pops up)

[clarkgoble]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Except Joseph was actually born on December 23rd.  Christ almost certainly wasn't born anywhere near December.
I'd say Joseph has more of a claim to be remembered by Mormons around this time of year.

Actually the weird Mormon tradition of Christ being born in April is wrong or at least based upon questionable reasoning. It actually makes a fair bit of sense for Christ to be born in December.