Not Much from Conference?

[stemelbow]

21 minutes ago, juliann said:

Stem, would you have them teach not to? This was what, a 10-15 minute talk? He used two examples, one an on the spot and the other a less time sensitive situation. When I think of promptings, other than the danger type stuff, I think of it as more of a nagging thing not a split second decision kind of thing.  United hasn't made it any easier to look forward to navigating a trip to DC/Maryland to see my elderly and disabled uncle who took me and other nieces into his home for a summer after graduating from HS so I work in the city. It had been nagging at me for months. I'm thinking it is probably a prompting. So 7 hrs (plane change and crappier planes at our local airport to avoid LAX),  a rental car at Baltimore to avoid DC airports....  The only good news is I picked Delta. 

I'd expect them to say something like:

 for some its best to act on promptings promptly.  For others who approach things with more measure and consideration it might be good to try and branch out some and act on promptings initially but don't forget who you are.  It might be best for you to get a prompting and consider it, measure it let yourself decide if it's the best route to take.  there's no devil in such activity.  it's how many of us are designed to operate.  Now others of you are just happy and prone to jump at first promptings and go with it.  Hey be my guest, but don't hesitate to slow down and consider things at times.  Just as it might be good for the more measured people to speed up on their response it might be good for you to slow down at times, let it work in you, consider it and then make a move or not. 

There's really no one way here.  There's no fool proof way to make this all work.  We're all fools in a sense, when compared to God.  Let's accept that, accept we all operate a little differently and work to figure out individually how best to proceed. 

That type of message feels more appropriate and helpful to me, but maybe I'm biased since I came up with it shooting from the hip. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by stemelbow

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I didn't say that, did I? But the principle of "no" and agency are the same.

I'm curious if you would find it appropriate if a traveling salesman, or maybe a Jehovas Witness missionary did this same thing to you or your mother, sister, significant other...whatever? Is there any instance in life where you would see that as appropriate behavior if it happened to you or a loved one?

That would scare the living day lights out of me if someone stuck their foot in the door when I closed it. I would feel threatened immediately.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I remember one time on my mission my comp and i were stuck at our apartment so were calling less actives on the member directory.  Most weren't home so we usually just left basic messages saying who we were, the name of the person we were trying to reach, and our phone number.  

In the midst of doing this we got a call back that I answered and the man on the other end was furious.  He was mad because his name was on the do not contact list and we had called him.  I tried to tell him that the only way to make sure that no one ever contacted him again was to have his name taken off of the roles.  I offered to give him the bishop's contact info but he wouldn't listen.  Then I tried to tell him that there was no permanent record of who wanted no contact and that because missionaries changed and ward directories got re-printed that it was impossible to guarantee no one would call him again, but he would have none of it.

So then i asked him for his name so that i could at least make a note in our member list not to contact him and he got even more mad that i didn't know who he was!  I tried to tell him that we had called a lot of people in the last half an hour but he refused to tell me his name and ended up hanging up on me.

I learned that day that some people are not rational!  

Sometimes people feel like they are only a number or only being called because they are on a list, I guess.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Tacenda

[juliann]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That would scare the living day lights out of me if someone stuck their foot in the door when I closed it. I would feel threatened immediately.

Which is why I am quite sure Elder Rasband would not have done it to you. If we are to assume that God is behind the prompting, then we have to assume the recipient is open to it. Had I dumped that bag of oranges without identifying myself at any other house, they might have chucked it in the garbage. 

[Mystery Meat]

Fake controversy alert.

[stemelbow]

25 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Fake controversy alert.

what controversy are you referring to?  I made no mention of any controversy. 

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I learned that the guy on my mission who wrecked his ankle sticking his foot in a door right before it slammed shut might not have been as dumb as I thought.

Okay..Nehor is back..I laughed out loud!!

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, stemelbow said:

God: "....wait for it...wait for it....NOW.

Hah...he did decide to stuff his foot in the door.  Good show ol' chum."

Angel:  "but couldn't we have just prompted him to ask before she started to shut the door?"

God:  "Hey I have to get these servers to do inappropriate things sometimes to test their mettle.  Where do you think polygamy came from?  How about the priesthood ban?  MMM?  Killign those poor native americans in the Utah territory?  It's good they do inappropriate things as I prompt them so they can learn to do stuff when I prompt them.  It's more important I prompt than the outcome. "

Angel:  "I see.  So, we're all better served if these servers do inappropriate things on your whim rather than really help people?"

God:  "yep.  Helping schmelpin.  they can do that on their own time."

Your version of God sounds like a schmuck. Glad I do not worship that weirdo.

Edited April 13, 2017 by The Nehor

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Well fewf! then.  I think we can also safely say, in like manner, the prompting for him to stick his foot in the door was not from God since God knew that these ladies would have joined anywho. 

Ok.  if you say so. 

I'm not in a position to read God's mind, but since no one comes to the Son unless he is drawn by the Father, the timing and judgment are His. The message is simple: follow the promptings of the Spirit, learn from our successes and mistakes, do better next time. If I fail to warn my neighbor, it's on me, not on my neighbor. God will provide for everyone. These stories don't give me any heartburn at all. I can't imagine why anyone would get exercised over them.

One day while tracting in Managua we knocked on a door. No one answered so we turned our backs to the door to survey where we should go next. I was suffering from a prodigious case of crotch rot and the itch was driving me crazy. As we stood there I scratched vigorously where it itched unaware that the lady of the house had opened the door and had a front row view of my search for relief. We did not get a return visit. Should I despair that I blew it and she would never get another opportunity to hear the Word? I say no. What say you?

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Gray said:

Yeah, it's really not good advice for a large group of people. Following your first instinct can get you into trouble, even if you think you're in tune with the spirit. 

When he was a young man, Pres McKay and his brother decided to drive their convertible up to Idaho to help some people who had been involved in a flood. They came to covered bridge. The Spirit told them not to cross the bridge. They got out and looked things over. Everything looked fine so they got back in the car and decided is to cross anyway. They did not know about the rope someone had tied between the walls that caught David under the chin and almost decapitated him. Sometimes it really is better to go with your first prompting, especially when you recognize it from past experiences as coming from the Spirit.

[Robert F. Smith]

9 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

The idea that the first thought that pops into our heads is always inspiration is rather dangerous.

Case in point- Sticking your foot in the door of a woman you don't know, who has already stated she wasn't interested, is a very aggressive move. If someone...anyone did that to my wife I'd do my best not to punch the guy, but I'd definitely call the police. This should not be held up as a good example. I'm happy that in this one case things seemed to have worked out, but it is beyond rude to ignore what a person says and then prevent them from closing their door. Does Elder Rasband need to be taught that "No, means no."?

The only rule is that there are no rules.  Rasband has good advice for the prigs among us.

[Stargazer]

10 hours ago, stemelbow said:

It was rude, but it worked out. I know back ont he mission, there were tons of instances wherein my companion and/or I were rude and it worked out ok.  In most cases it was encouraged to be a bit rude.  I think that's toned down some these days though.  I hate to think of thousands of missionaries stuffing their feet in peoples doors as they are closing them, now.  I guess we'll see.  I"ll be heading out with the missionaries within the next week.  I'll see how ti plays out. 

An interesting story from my mission: Elder Bruce D. Porter, later a GA Seventy, and his companion were walking one day through the shopping district of Dusseldorf, Germany,  Elder Porter observed a rather tall man in a business suit standing at the window of a jewelry store examining the display.  He walked up to him, tapped him on the shoulder and asked "Are you an honest man?"

Kind of rude, right?  In Germany at that time (and maybe even now), tapping some stranger on the shoulder like that to ask an impertinent question was definitely something that would not be done.

The man turned around, and since Elder Porter was even taller than himself, had to look up to meet his eyes.  He replied, "To be honest, no."

I don't know how Elder Porter turned this into an invitation to be taught the Gospel (I wasn't there, and this is the story that the man later told), but this man and his wife ended up being baptized, and he was later called to be the bishop of the Duesseldorf Ward. Interestingly, he was fairly prominent, being a vice president of one of Germany's largest insurance companies.

I take it that Elder Porter was acting on a first prompting.

 

[Stargazer]

10 hours ago, juliann said:

I love Elder Rasband.  Within the context and knowing it was him, it is a great story.  This is the most important piece, however. which is emphasized with an exclamation point,  " I felt to do something I had never done before and have never done since!"  So I don't think it is fair to omit that. I have certainly been prompted, or whatever you want to call it, to do what I would not normally do.

My most memorable one was giving some oranges on my tree to a family who had helped me out after my husband died. I had a freshly picked bag and had forgotten to bring it with me when I would be driving near their home. It was horribly inconvenient and certainly not necessary to get back in the car at a stressful time....another day or two wouldn't have made one whit of a difference. But for some reason I felt like I had to get it there....I just dumped the bag on the porch because I was so frazzled. So months later, the woman bears her testimony and talked about the rough financial time they were going through at that time. She had prayed that day, she could make do but she was heartsick that she couldn't afford to buy her children fruit. And she opened the door to a bag of oranges. 

That's sweet!

I had a very interesting experience in my new ward in England.  I went out home teaching with my new companion, and one of the people on our list was an very elderly sister in an assisted living facility, to whom we administered the sacrament.  We spent some time with her, as she had a personal issue she wanted some counsel on, which I let my companion give, since I felt a little out of my depth.  About a week later the ward RS President visited her, and this sister told her how excited she had been to have been visited by a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, Elder Quentin L. Cook to be precise!  But it wasn't Elder Cook who visited her, it was me.  I have no idea how she formed the idea that I was a member of the Q12, although there was the fact that I have an American accent, and my last name begins and ends with the same sounds as "Cook".  I don't even look like Elder Cook -- I have all my hair, and he doesn't!  My wife told me that her vision isn't quite up to snuff these days, and perhaps that explains much.  Anyway, the RS President didn't correct the sister about who visited her, and I'm afraid to go back to visit her for fear that it would lead to her being disappointed that Quentin L. Cook had not actually visited her. 

Question: is it better to let this sister believe that she was visited by a General Authority, or disabuse her of the notion?

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

That's sweet!

I had a very interesting experience in my new ward in England.  I went out home teaching with my new companion, and one of the people on our list was an very elderly sister in an assisted living facility, to whom we administered the sacrament.  We spent some time with her, as she had a personal issue she wanted some counsel on, which I let my companion give, since I felt a little out of my depth.  About a week later the ward RS President visited her, and this sister told her how excited she had been to have been visited by a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, Elder Quentin L. Cook to be precise!  But it wasn't Elder Cook who visited her, it was me.  I have no idea how she formed the idea that I was a member of the Q12, although there was the fact that I have an American accent, and my last name begins and ends with the same sounds as "Cook".  I don't even look like Elder Cook -- I have all my hair, and he doesn't!  My wife told me that her vision isn't quite up to snuff these days, and perhaps that explains much.  Anyway, the RS President didn't correct the sister about who visited her, and I'm afraid to go back to visit her for fear that it would lead to her being disappointed that Quentin L. Cook had not actually visited her. 

Question: is it better to let this sister believe that she was visited by a General Authority, or disabuse her of the notion?

I don't have an answer for that, but it does remind me of another story.

At the RootsTech family history conference in Salt Lake City in February, Vai Sikahema told of a trip years ago that some Tongan saints were taking to New Zealand to attend the temple. It was the first time any of them had flown in a passenger plane or any other kind of aircraft.

Elder John H. Groberg, who was mission president at that time, came back into the coach section to sit with an elderly woman and comfort her during the flight. As they flew above the clouds, she turned to him and said, "Kolipoki [the Tongan approximation for "Groberg"] are we in heaven?"

He responded to a spiritual prompting on that occasion not to give her the literally correct answer. Instead, he responded in the affirmative.

Brother Sikahema said the reasoning was that being with one's friends and loved ones on a divinely appointed journey (attending the temple) was close enough to being in heaven that it was best to let her think for the time being she was in heaven.

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 hours ago, juliann said:

But for some reason I felt like I had to get it there....I just dumped the bag on the porch because I was so frazzled. So months later, the woman bears her testimony and talked about the rough financial time they were going through at that time. She had prayed that day, she could make do but she was heartsick that she couldn't afford to buy her children fruit. And she opened the door to a bag of oranges. 

Thank you for sharing. I've often wondered if something similar happened for me.

I was a student in the final year of my PhD and had run completely out of scholarship money. After dividing what I had left in savings by rent, fuel, etc., I concluded that I could spend the equivalent of US$3.75 per week on food. One Saturday, I splurged and bought a bag of pasta, a couple of tins of tomatoes, and a 100-gram bag of Parmesan cheese. My plan was to live on this all week.

The next day, I brought four Young Men home from church with me to await bishop's youth discussion, and the first question they asked me when we arrived was if I had any food they could eat. I almost said no, but then I thought otherwise and said sure. I cooked the pasta and fed the whole lot of it to them. I remember wondering how exactly the week would go. I honestly had no idea.

I went off to uni the next morning and simply didn't eat all day. When I got home, I saw a shopping bag hanging from my front doorknob. When I got closer, I saw a paper stapled to the bag with my name on it. I thought that was odd since I wasn't expecting anything, but I looked inside and saw bread and cheese -- enough to last me an entire week.

I've always felt certain it was a ward member who left the food on my door, but I've really never understood what happened to get them to do it.

[probablyHagoth7]

20 hours ago, Gray said:

This needs a huge asterisk next to it. People can get some crazy ideas as a "first prompting." Doubly so if someone is struggling with mental illness. 

Struggling?

Saw a bumper sticker with a similar message. Coveted it. Repented.

It was my first impression to inject a needed smile into this mental illness tangent. So I went with it. (To cloverleaf that tangent back into the GC topic.)

[HappyJackWagon]

11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The only rule is that there are no rules.  Rasband has good advice for the prigs among us.

More like his advice is designed to create more prigs among us by teaching the general membership that the thoughts that pop into their minds are revelation from God and must be acted upon at once, even if it means usurping someone's agency, acting aggressively, or generally acting as a self-righteous prig.

 

[stemelbow]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Your version of God sounds like a schmuck. Glad I do not worship that weirdo.

Well, I'm glad you don't.  Your notion, that promptly popped into your head and you promptly typed it out, of God wanting us to do jerky stuff just because when he obviously doesn't need us to, was odd to me, so I caricaturized it to see how silly your idea was.  Now that you see it, hopefully you revise. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by stemelbow

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Well, I'm glad you don't.  Your notion, that promptly popped into your head and you promptly typed it out, of God wanting us to do jerky stuff just because when he obviously doesn't need us to, was odd to me, so I caricaturized it to see how silly your idea was.  Now that you see it, hopefully you revise. 

I disagree with your premises. Sometimes God needs us to do jerky stuff. It sometimes helps others and often helps us as well.

[stemelbow]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I disagree with your premises. Sometimes God needs us to do jerky stuff. It sometimes helps others and often helps us as well.

Then I guess we're right back to your God that is a schmuck and weirdo.  I can see why you throw out the notion of worship when it comes to God now. 

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Then I guess we're right back to your God that is a schmuck and weirdo.  I can see why you throw out the notion of worship when it comes to God now. 

Nope. You just do not like Him and understandably so.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

More like his advice is designed to create more prigs among us by teaching the general membership that the thoughts that pop into their minds are revelation from God and must be acted upon at once, even if it means usurping someone's agency, acting aggressively, or generally acting as a self-righteous prig.

 

We do not have that many prigs amongst us. Partially this is because the church is not that strong in numbers in Britain but also because we are often mislabeled. Also, you cannot usurp someone's agency. It is literally impossible.

[Duncan]

One thing that is bewildering to me from conference and I don't want to offend anybody but why did Utah get another Temple? are they that hard done by and worse than the rest of the world to warrant another Temple? I was excited that Manila is getting another one considering there are over 100 stakes and districts that use the current one. I was hoping Mongolia and India would get one because the closet one is Hong Kong which isn't exactley close by

[clarkgoble]

12 minutes ago, Duncan said:

One thing that is bewildering to me from conference and I don't want to offend anybody but why did Utah get another Temple? are they that hard done by and worse than the rest of the world to warrant another Temple?

It's more that they get used a lot. Provo has two.

[longview]

28 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

It's more that they get used a lot. Provo has two.

Provo temples (and others) require reservations to get a turn at serving there.