One woman speaker

[JulieM]

3 hours ago, SteveO said:

That's not how the church works.  And that's what bothers you.  You think quotas trump what the general membership of the church needed to hear this past weekend

This is not a huge issue for me although I would have liked to have heard more from the women leaders, but can you answer this question with your honest reaction?

What if you learned there would be 26 female speakers and only 1 male speaker at the next general conference?

Would you feel different about conference or the same with this change?

(If as it has been expressed here, it's "nitpicky" to care whether God speaks through a man or a woman, I'm just curious how men...or anyone... would actually feel about nearly all the speakers being women.)

Edited April 3, 2017 by JulieM

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's fair. I still think it's a little preparatory because 2 general officers in those presidencies is more noticeable than the multitudes of other GA's.

It contributes to a diverse appearance, yes.  It may help the hopefully few who feel the most 'powerful ' callings should be left in the hands of whites adjust to the idea, but save for the few like the one who visited the board last week, I haven't encountered anyone who isn't looking forward to a nonwhite or more nonAmericans in the 12, though some don't want to be pressured into it.

Generally I think those who have an issue with diversity probably don't see women as that significant of an authority and so won't be affected that much by having nonwhite women.

OTOH, for those outside the Church---especially given the greater role the female GOs are playing in speaking to the press, including many times without male 'backup' (a recent article on the refugee project had the press only discussing it with female officers, though there was a reference to a past comment by Pres. Utchdorf iirc), I think the changes will be seen as very significant depending on how often they are used as spokespeople (which will probably depend on if they live in the states or not...I need to familiarize myself with them, I have not felt that great this weekend, concentration has been nonexistent and pity parties frequent, thus ignored Conference in my sulkiness).

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Why?  just why?  Hasn't the Church tried to show that it's wanting to improve on getting a woman's voice involved?  Now this? 

 

Come on. 

 

Did the Church just reveal its cards by not really caring what women have to say and whether they contribute? 

Whoever speaks does not do it to bring glory or recognition to themselves or their gender. Besides that there aren't that many to choose from. There are about 124 GAs to pick from and only 9 are women. Do you want them to invent some new General Authority positions for women so the odds will be better that more of them will speak? 

[JLHPROF]

31 minutes ago, JulieM said:

This is not a huge issue for me although I would have liked to have heard more from the women leaders, but can you answer this question with your honest reaction?

What if you learned there would be 26 female speakers and only 1 male speaker at the next general conference?

Would you feel different about conference or the same with this change?

Not about the value of the message presented.
I would feel it was out of order though.

[stemelbow]

13 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Whoever speaks does not do it to bring glory or recognition to themselves or their gender. Besides that there aren't that many to choose from. There are about 124 GAs to pick from and only 9 are women. Do you want them to invent some new General Authority positions for women so the odds will be better that more of them will speak? 

Of course.  At the very least

[HappyJackWagon]

16 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Whoever speaks does not do it to bring glory or recognition to themselves or their gender. Besides that there aren't that many to choose from. There are about 124 GAs to pick from and only 9 are women. Do you want them to invent some new General Authority positions for women so the odds will be better that more of them will speak? 

9/124 or about 7%. This illustrates the problem very well. Although technically there are ZERO female GA's. They are general officers.

[JAHS]

4 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

18 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Whoever speaks does not do it to bring glory or recognition to themselves or their gender. Besides that there aren't that many to choose from. There are about 124 GAs to pick from and only 9 are women. Do you want them to invent some new General Authority positions for women so the odds will be better that more of them will speak? 

Of course.  At the very least

Well then we will have to wait until that happens, won't we? But right now it is not going to happen so therefore fewer women speak. 

[PacMan]

Funny.  I count three women speakers in the first session alone.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference?lang=eng

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, PacMan said:

Funny.  I count three women speakers in the first session alone.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference?lang=eng

Yeah, but the mens didn't have to listen to them....so that doesn't count I guess.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, JulieM said:

This is not a huge issue for me although I would have liked to have heard more from the women leaders, but can you answer this question with your honest reaction?

What if you learned there would be 26 female speakers and only 1 male speaker at the next general conference?

Would you feel different about conference or the same with this change?

(If as it has been expressed here, it's "nitpicky" to care whether God speaks through a man or a woman, I'm just curious how men...or anyone... would actually feel about nearly all the speakers being women.)

I find that in general, women are much better at putting themselves into the speakers shoes of a different gender than men are.  I'm guessing that it's because we have so much more practice at it.  

[JAHS]

25 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

9/124 or about 7%. This illustrates the problem very well. Although technically there are ZERO female GA's. They are general officers.

You might think it's a problem that there are not more women leaders, but it describes the immediate reason why more don't speak. They are not chosen solely based on gender but on what is needed at the time. 

[JulieM]

59 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Not about the value of the message presented.
I would feel it was out of order though.

What exactly do you mean by "out of order"? (sincere question)

What if the 1 male speaker was the Prophet?  Would it still be out of order to only hear from female speakers for the rest of the conference?

[Ahab]

6 minutes ago, JulieM said:

What exactly do you mean by "out of order"? (sincere question)

It may have been before your time but back in the day any piece of paper with the words "out of order" written on it would be placed on anything that stopped working as it should work.

If a pay phone didn't work as it should, for example, someone who noticed that it wasn't working as it should would go find a piece of paper and write "out of order" on it and then find a piece of Scotch tape to tape the note to the pay phone.  And others who read the note would usually appreciate it because it usually helped to avoid wasting money on what was "out of order".

I hardly ever see any "out of order" notes on things these days. I don't know why. Maybe I should take it upon myself to revive the tradition again when I see things that are "out of order".

[JLHPROF]

31 minutes ago, JulieM said:

What exactly do you mean by "out of order"? (sincere question)

What if the 1 male speaker was the Prophet?  Would it still be out of order to only hear from female speakers for the rest of the conference?

I don't want to open up the "presides" or the I Corinthians 14 can of worms, especially since they cause pendulum swings into extremities that I don't hold with.

 But the correct order for a conference of the Church?
I guess it all depends on what you consider the purpose of General Conference.

If it is to be a truly inspirational meeting then I don't think it matters who speaks as long as they are inspired.
But is that the purpose?

Edited April 3, 2017 by JLHPROF

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I don't want to open up the "presides" can of worms.

I guess it all depends on what you consider the purpose of General Conference.

If it is to be a truly inspirational meeting then I don't think it matters who speaks as long as they are inspired.
But is that the purpose?

Inspired AND appointed to be the speakers, I would say.

The one(s) who preside over the meeting are the one(s) who appoint the speaker(s), I think.  Or they appoint other people to appoint the speaker(s).

That is the way it should work, I think, and the purpose is to share a message, or messages, I think.

[The Nehor]

This is the fallout from letting women pray in Conference. It is traditional for each auxiliary presidency (and the Presiding Bishopric) to usually have one member participate in the Conference in some way. There are three female presidencies (Relief Society, Young Women, Primary). Unless I misremember something the other two auxiliary presidencies gave prayers.

[JulieM]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This is the fallout from letting women pray in Conference. 

"Letting women pray"?

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Gray said:

Contrary to your 2 Timothy quote, it seems that the COC has decided that it's more important to do the right thing than to do the popular thing. 

Exactly, and that is the whole point:  Everyone is opting to do the right thing* -- whatever that is.  Moreover, that means that the 2 Timothy quote is not in fact contrary to anyone's high-minded principles.  Anyone can use it as cover for whatever policy they wish to implement.  The real question is at base epistemological -- how can we know anything for certain, or even with a high degree of likelihood?  The typical Mormon missionary has always maintained that truth can only be known via the witness of the Holy Spirit, but that is not a method accepted everywhere.  So naturally, there will be disagreements among well-intentioned people, and continued expansion of denominational splintering.

And one man's prophet is just another man's carnival barker.  So the Mormon appeal to authority is likewise not going to be acceptable to some people, as is the case also for Roman Catholic appeal to the Pope's authority.

*  You may have noticed that the choir at one point during Conference sang the old standard, "Do what is right, let the consequence follow . . . ."  Are they self-deluded to even think that way?

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, JulieM said:

"Letting women pray"?

That was meant to be an ironic statement. I have been making jokes about how "letting women pray" in conference is going to doom the church since it started.

I was serious about the effect though. The simple truth is that there aren't many women who are currently available as speakers. I count 9 female General Officers in the Church. There are 15 apostles, 3 Presiding Bishopric members, 6 male general officers, and about 90 General Authority Seventies. Women are outnumbered about 12 to 1. That doesn't tell the whole story though. The 15 apostles all speak and the First Presidency usually each speak twice. I count 15 talks not given by apostles in the five sessions of conference. (I am ignoring sustainings and reports). Not counting the apostles that means women are outnumbered about 11 to 1 in speaking which is a little below being proportional (1 in 15). Before women were praying they were overrepresented in talks in relation to their numbers as there were usually three female speakers. Now if you add in the Relief Society Session you add three more and there were four female speakers out of 18 non-apostle talks meaning they actually gave over a fifth of non-apostle talks. when they are outnumbered 11 to 1.

This obviously doesn't satisfy everyone as it does not address why women are so scarce and that is a matter of holding the Priesthood. While women use the Priesthood and act using it and enter the Priesthood Order through the ordinances of the Temple they do not currently hold it and cannot perform the ordinances that Seventies and Apostles have to be able to do so their numbers will probably stay low until/if women become Priesthood holders. I expect that day will one day come. I hope it does but that decision is in God's hands.

[Jeanne]

I don't think it is in God's hand.  He has taught and trusted us to be fair and just...this is an organizational thing that makes important and seemingly superior men feel important and superior.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

...until/if women become Priesthood holders. I expect that day will one day come. I hope it does but that decision is in God's hands.

They already hold the priesthood.  They are just not ordained to an office of the priesthood. And that is as it should be since the priesthood is after the order of the SON of God and they are WOMEN!

[strappinglad]

Did anyone else find the OP just a bit ironic? The  OP decried the lack of female speakers, and in the next sentence complained about what the one and only female speaker said. Can't win for losing I guess !

[Duncan]

On the phone with my Mum and she said she likes prayers by women in conference because they are much more feeling and care for others whereas men are more business like, pray for the meeting not always praying for people. She thinks that the women speakers are "gushy" so for her anyways she didn't mind the lack of female speakers, she wants to hear from Hartman Rector Jr. and Hugh B. Brown (I told her he died like 40 years ago, which she knows but if "man can send someone to the moon then God can shoot someone back"..............Her and my Dad heard him speak in 1970, so there it is

Edited April 4, 2017 by Duncan

[Jeanne]

14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

On the phone with my Mum and she said she likes prayers by women in conference because they are much more feeling and care for others whereas men are more business like, pray for the meeting not always praying for people. She thinks that the women speakers are "gushy" so for her anyways she didn't mind the lack of female speakers, she wants to hear from Hartman Rector Jr. and Hugh B. Brown (I told he died like 40 years ago, which she knows but if "man can send someone to the moon then God can shoot someone back"..............Her and my Dad heard him speak in 1970, so there it is

I love your Mom...she says what she thinks and has honest opinions...!  She sounds like fun and someone I would like to talk to about the good ol' days.

[Duncan]

Just now, Jeanne said:

I love your Mom...she says what she thinks and has honest opinions...!  She sounds like fun and someone I would like to talk to about the good ol' days.

oh, she'll entertain you for sure!!!!!!!!!!!