Handbook requirement that men visit new members before women?

[rongo]

My ward council and I have been unsuccessful in finding anything in either CHI 1 or 2 requiring priesthood holders to visit new members that appear on the ward list before any of the women's auxiliaries do. Our stake relief society president has insisted that this is in the handbooks.

Can anyone point me to anything that we're overlooking?

Thanks!

[JAHS]

Perhaps she is referring to this from the most recent handbook

"In organizing visiting teaching, members of the Relief Society presidency prayerfully discuss the needs of individuals and families. They give special priority to ensuring that the following sisters are cared for: sisters coming into Relief Society from Young Women, single sisters, new ward members, recent converts, newly married sisters, less-active members, and others with special needs." (CHI 9.5.2)

The Priesthood has something similar:
"Quorum and group leaders assign the most effective home teachers to members who need them most. When assigning home teachers, leaders give highest priority to new members, less-active members who may be the most receptive, and others who have the greatest need for home teachers, such as single parents, widows, and widowers."
(CHI 7.4.2)

From the 1998 handbook
"Ward leaders, home teachers, or clerks obtain the forwarding addresses of members as soon as they become aware that members intend to move. Leaders of the new ward should contact members as soon as possible after they move in." (CHI 1998)

"Leaders of the new ward" could be either priesthood or Relief Society leaders. I can't find anything that says priesthood holders must see all new move-ins first. It's up to the Bishop to decide who visits new ward members. If it's a new sister move-in he might ask the Relief Society to visit her first. 
You should ask the Stake Relief Society president to show you what she is referring to.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by JAHS

[rongo]

Thanks, JAHS! That's what we've found, too.

You correctly anticipate the issue. She is a good sister who can be officious and out of bounds. She forcefully told my relief society president (whose presidency is very good at monitoring new arrivals and making visits) that under no circumstances are they to visit anyone unless the men have visited them first --- and that this is out of the handbook. She told her that she answers to her. I told her that she answers to me, and that the stake RS presidency is an auxiliary (a help and a resource).

I also told her that she presides over our Relief Society, and part of that is being free to visit people without getting clearance. Ditto for the primary president and families with children, or the young women's president and families with young women.

We decided to just quietly "do what we know is right" without calling a showdown with the stake sister, who really is in all other ways a wonderful person. Given her nature, I don't think it will matter much if we show her that there is nothing in the handbook about it. What gave us pause is that this sister is such a stickler for the handbooks, and knows them well, so we all scoured them and didn't find anything. 

Thanks for the help!

[mnn727]

You might want to mention this to the Stake President as he is over the Stake RS Pres.

[JAHS]

She may be interpreting "leaders of the new ward" as referring to priesthood leaders. Or the Stake President has interpreted it that way. Perhaps he could clarify it for you.

[Tacenda]

We always beat the Bishopric in visiting first when we had several new members because of new homes being built in the ward when I was in a RS presidency.  I'd make sure and stand your ground or do as mnn27 said to do. Or some new members might feel like it took too long for the visits to happen.  Not saying the men aren't doing their job, but a lot of times RS presidencies can visit during the day or have more opportunities.

 

[mtomm]

For sure the Ward RS president answers to her Bishop first.  Was taught that directly from President Beck in training. 

[Stargazer]

I do seem to recall (in my head filled with cotton) that there used to be something about that in some publication -- either that or it was some kind of unofficial advice at least.  I do seem to have a vague memory of one of the bishops of my ward telling the RS president something like that.  It was in a PEC or Welfare Committee meeting, I think.

[Stargazer]

And yes, the bishop is the ward RS president's boss.  The stake RS president isn't even in the "chain of command".  That sister needs to be counseled by the stake president.

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, rongo said:

My ward council and I have been unsuccessful in finding anything in either CHI 1 or 2 requiring priesthood holders to visit new members that appear on the ward list before any of the women's auxiliaries do. Our stake relief society president has insisted that this is in the handbooks.

Can anyone point me to anything that we're overlooking?

Thanks!

Priesthood holders would include missionaries.

It is unlikely that the RS sisters would be out tracting, and in the case of sister missionaries, the baptismal interview needs to be done by a Priesthood brother, so this requirement if it is one, is already met

Edited May 2, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Boanerges]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

We always beat the Bishopric in visiting first when we had several new members because of new homes being built in the ward when I was in a RS presidency.  I'd make sure and stand your ground or do as mnn27 said to do. Or some new members might feel like it took too long for the visits to happen.  Not saying the men aren't doing their job, but a lot of times RS presidencies can visit during the day or have more opportunities.

 

Isn't that generally the case? I honestly think the church would fall apart if not for the sisters. They're almost always first and more in tune in welfare and other needs.

The ward RSP works under the bishops keys and authority. The stake RSP works under the SPs keys and authority. The role of the stake RSP is to assist and train, but not direct wards. She has authority in her stake responsibilities as they relate to the stake from the SP, the ward RSP has the same as it relates to her ward from her bishop. I'd probably be more inclined to nod and smile and do what is right, but it wouldn't be out of line to clue in the SP abut this (perhaps through the high council advisor).

[Storm Rider]

It seems like back in the ancient times we did observe this rule.  As I recall it was to verify the home safe for sisters to enter and to make all aware if there were any specific problems or potential problems.  I can understand in Utah how this might not be a problem, but districts and stakes back then (in the mission field) often covered a large area.  Being a hundred miles from home, two sisters visiting someone the first time, and being unaware of a potential problem would make many women feel uncomfortable.  However, given the strong women of today that are more than capable of protecting themselves and being every bit as good as any man, I don't know why we would have such concerns. 

[stemelbow]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 7:32 AM, rongo said:

My ward council and I have been unsuccessful in finding anything in either CHI 1 or 2 requiring priesthood holders to visit new members that appear on the ward list before any of the women's auxiliaries do. Our stake relief society president has insisted that this is in the handbooks.

Can anyone point me to anything that we're overlooking?

Thanks!

I don't know why something like that would be in there, but I will say this is a result of the one of the problems we've created with Church.  Everyone wants to follow the rules.  the rules come down to often, how to interpret what is written.  Who cares already?

[Scott Lloyd]

Through my years as stake Sunday School president, I was never under the impression that ward Sunday School presidencies were answerable to me for how they carried out their callings. Rather, they were answerable to their own bishoprics. I and my counselors were there as a resource for them.

[Scott Lloyd]

Through my years as stake Sunday School president, I was never under the impression that ward Sunday School presidencies were answerable to me for how they carried out their callings. Rather, they were answerable to their own bishoprics. I and my counselors were there as a resource for them.

[mfbukowski]

34 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Through my years as stake Sunday School president, I was never under the impression that ward Sunday School presidencies were answerable to me for how they carried out their callings. Rather, they were answerable to their own bishoprics. I and my counselors were there as a resource for them.

We had a similar question in our stake and that was the conclusion for us as well.

We are stressing family history and wanted to have the stake come in and teach sunday school classes for the wards, but it was clear that that was strictly at the discretion of the individual bishops.

[toon]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 6:32 AM, rongo said:

Our stake relief society president has insisted that this is in the handbooks.

 

That woman needs to be put in her place -- interpreting the Handbook is for the mens. 

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by toon

[rongo]

I have no desire to "call her on the carpet" with the stake president. We know what's right, and we'll do what needs to be done how it should be done --- without causing her any unnecessary grief. Other wards' leadership can navigate that on their own, if it's an issue for them, too.

I just wanted to make sure we weren't overlooking something in black-and-white in the handbooks that made us wrong . . .

I did hear from some on my ward council that they somehow remember hearing something along those lines from somewhere (similar to some on this thread), so this appears to be a fairly pervasive "UOoT" item.

Edited May 2, 2016 by rongo

[Jeanne]

My ward was on a military post so we had lots of families moving in and moving out for years.  The bishop would just get a list of families together and hand them to the RS Pres.  She would call first and then visit with the RS visiting teachers.  It worked most of the time.  I do believe that the RS Pres would then report to the Bishop on needs or their status in the church and Home Teachers would then be issued.  Basically, it was working together.  On a military post we always had a welcoming committee anyway from military and base wives.  Some of these were also in the ward and that helped.

[ERayR]

22 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

It seems like back in the ancient times we did observe this rule.  As I recall it was to verify the home safe for sisters to enter and to make all aware if there were any specific problems or potential problems.  I can understand in Utah how this might not be a problem, but districts and stakes back then (in the mission field) often covered a large area.  Being a hundred miles from home, two sisters visiting someone the first time, and being unaware of a potential problem would make many women feel uncomfortable.  However, given the strong women of today that are more than capable of protecting themselves and being every bit as good as any man, I don't know why we would have such concerns. 

And in my state we have permit-less concealed carry.

[Bernard Gui]

I think it is common sense stuff that priesthood leaders visit first, especially if the new move-in is not known or has not attended church prior to moving in.

Usually, if the person has issues the previous bishop will add a note to contact him, but you never know what is behind the door. Our ward has followed this practice

for as long as I can remember, but I don't recall specific instructions to do it. It just seems prudent.

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Meadowchik]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think it is common sense stuff that priesthood leaders visit first, especially if

the new move-in is not known or has not attended church prior to moving in.

Usually, if the person has issues the previous bishop will add a note to contact

him, but you never know what is behind the door. Our ward has followed this practice

for as long as I can remember, but I don't recall specific instructions to do it.

it just seems prudent.

 

I agree that it is prudent, especially if other contact has not been made.  Some wards, you are on the sidewalk offering to help as they move into our ward.  You can see their family in action and by the time you actually sit down with them may already feel like you know them fairly well.  But, this cannot always be the case. 

On another note, my dad has come up with a reactivation and proselytization plan for his stake as the ward mission leader.  He uses a database to find out who the new move-ins are to the area, and he and my mom make the effort to see new move-ins in their area, to offer them some fruit and hopefully on subsequent visits a book of Mormon.  Oftentimes, moving to a new home can be one of those moments when people are more open to hearing the gospel or, if inactive, coming back to Church.

[Bernard Gui]

23 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I agree that it is prudent, especially if other contact has not been made.  Some wards, you are on the sidewalk offering to help as they move into our ward.  You can see their family in action and by the time you actually sit down with them may already feel like you know them fairly well.  But, this cannot always be the case. 

On another note, my dad has come up with a reactivation and proselytization plan for his stake as the ward mission leader.  He uses a database to find out who the new move-ins are to the area, and he and my mom make the effort to see new move-ins in their area, to offer them some fruit and hopefully on subsequent visits a book of Mormon.  Oftentimes, moving to a new home can be one of those moments when people are more open to hearing the gospel or, if inactive, coming back to Church.

Most new members in our ward are inactive and are made known by their membership record being transferred after  they have moved n. We try to visit them ASAP. As ward clerk, I gave their names to the missionaries. Usually,hostile members will talk with the elders. They reported back how they were received, and the priesthood followed up. I love your dad's plan. That's a great assignment for a ward missionary couple!