Duncan Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 let's say you were exed from the Church or something like that do you automatically lose the influence of the Holy Ghost? Like he won't come back, no matter how much you want him to, he wont be back until you get rebaptized. Or does it depend on how much you listen and follow his influence, regardless of your status in the Church?
bluebell Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 You lose the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that doesn't mean that He can't influence you. Especially if you are in the repentance process. 4
ksfisher Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him. D&C 130 1
Duncan Posted February 17, 2016 Author Posted February 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, ksfisher said: 23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him. D&C 130 with or without restrictions placed on them though? I mean you can feel the spirit in prison if the inmate is repentant and not feel the influence in EQ class if people there aren't interested in learning by the spirit
bluebell Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Duncan said: with or without restrictions placed on them though? I mean you can feel the spirit in prison if the inmate is repentant and not feel the influence in EQ class if people there aren't interested in learning by the spirit From what I've heard you basically become like a non member, able to feel the influence of the Holy Ghost in certain situations to help you recognize truth and to guide you to it. 1
The Nehor Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 You do not have the right to the Holy Ghost as a constant companion dependent on worthiness. If I need the Holy Ghost for something now I can ask and expect to receive. Without that gift I cannot expect it to stay.
ksfisher Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 32 minutes ago, Duncan said: with or without restrictions placed on them though? I mean you can feel the spirit in prison if the inmate is repentant and not feel the influence in EQ class if people there aren't interested in learning by the spirit I think the Holy Ghost can be found anywhere that people are willing to listen, be it in prison or even in elders quorum. 1
Popular Post mfbukowski Posted February 17, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 17, 2016 This is something that people who are not converts have trouble with. You would or could not join the church without a testimony, and the truth is that the strongest I ever felt the HG in my life was as a non-member. If God had not clobbered me over the head with the spirit there is no way this former atheist would be a member today. You can come up with all the theoretical explanations you like but the fact is God gives inspiration to all. Yes I agree it is more consistent and constant now, but not necessarily stronger or clearer 6
Thinking Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 When you really think about it, there is no real difference between the gift and the influence, unless of course the HG answers somebody with the gift faster than somebody without the gift. I guess the non-LDS have to wait in the standby line like those people at the Provo City Center Temple open house. 1
deli_llama Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Thinking said: When you really think about it, there is no real difference between the gift and the influence, unless of course the HG answers somebody with the gift faster than somebody without the gift. I guess the non-LDS have to wait in the standby line like those people at the Provo City Center Temple open house. That makes me kinda sad. So this standby line means that nobody else will be getting answers for a long time—LDS people are always keeping the line busy with all our prayers for moisture. Well, at least that explains all of the missionary frustrations when the investigators just aren't getting answers to their prayers fast enough. Go Joe! 1
The Nehor Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 35 minutes ago, Thinking said: When you really think about it, there is no real difference between the gift and the influence, unless of course the HG answers somebody with the gift faster than somebody without the gift. I guess the non-LDS have to wait in the standby line like those people at the Provo City Center Temple open house. If you are jealous just join the platinum club with all the cool kids. 1
CV75 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 12 hours ago, Duncan said: let's say you were exed from the Church or something like that do you automatically lose the influence of the Holy Ghost? Like he won't come back, no matter how much you want him to, he wont be back until you get rebaptized. Or does it depend on how much you listen and follow his influence, regardless of your status in the Church? I don't think there is anything automatic about it. I think that either we are prepared to receive spiritual power, or the Lord in His grace will release it at a level that we cannot disregard it, or (as usual) it comes by way of a combination of both (we seek and find; the Lord invites and does not turn away). I think spiritual (or "quickening") power comes to us in the form of the Light of Christ and the power, witness or influence of the Holy Ghost. These sources and powers come to us through the media of our conscience or through the message presented through priesthood servants (including the scriptures they have translated, published or shared!). The "quickening" from these sources are received by the power of faith. The Gift of the Holy Ghost is activated on these same principles. 1
Garden Girl Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 7 hours ago, deli_llama said: 8 hours ago, Thinking said: When you really think about it, there is no real difference between the gift and the influence, unless of course the HG answers somebody with the gift faster than somebody without the gift. I guess the non-LDS have to wait in the standby line like those people at the Provo City Center Temple open house. 8 hours ago, deli_llama said: That makes me kinda sad. So this standby line means that nobody else will be getting answers for a long time—LDS people are always keeping the line busy with all our prayers for moisture. Well, at least that explains all of the missionary frustrations when the investigators just aren't getting answers to their prayers fast enough. Go Joe! 21 minutes ago, CV75 said: I'm having difficulty with the quote function, but finally got these two... both of which are snide and misrepresent the LDS view of the gift of the Holy Ghost, i.e., there is no "standby line" etc. Or did I misunderstand misguided attempts at humor(?)... GG
stemelbow Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 As I understand it the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't really important anymore. Even kids whose parents are gay can be influenced by the Holy Ghost without having the gift. With that new information given, I'd say I wouldn't worry about losing the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Thinking Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Garden Girl said: I'm having difficulty with the quote function, but finally got these two... both of which are snide and misrepresent the LDS view of the gift of the Holy Ghost, i.e., there is no "standby line" etc. Or did I misunderstand misguided attempts at humor(?)... Attempts at humor (at least from me).
CV75 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, stemelbow said: As I understand it the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't really important anymore. Even kids whose parents are gay can be influenced by the Holy Ghost without having the gift. With that new information given, I'd say I wouldn't worry about losing the gift of the Holy Ghost. With a post like that, you better worry! LOL Of course apostates can be influenced by the Holy Ghost, as evidenced when they are inclined to repent. The Lord is always calling them to. Their children can be influenced just like anyone else living in a non-covenant environment that has been imposed upon him. This has always been the case; no new information needed on that point. The Gift of the Holy Ghost differs from both the power and influence of the Holy Ghost and the Light of Christ (and the gifts of the Spirit as well). https://www.lds.org/topics/gift-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/holy-ghost?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/light-of-christ?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/gifts-of-the-spirit?lang=eng
Jeanne Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 As an ex-member, I can say that I have felt the Holy Ghost..and has been prompted on things since my membership. There are things though that I believe are directed to me from my ancestors and my spouse. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Many believe that the Holy Ghost is nothing more than the feelings of Elevation created by the chemicals within your own brain...membership or non-membership within the church has no effect on whether you experience the effects of this self created Holy Ghost "Elevation" ...you always have it whether you are in or out of the church. This is also why people of other faith traditions have the Holy Ghost witness that their brand of Christianity/Islam/Whatever is also the one true church. Remarkably the feelings created by Elevation are the very same feeling one has when feeling the Spirit...a burning in one bosom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_%28emotion%29 Edited February 17, 2016 by Johnnie Cake
Calm Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I would say the difference is less about the presence of the Holy Ghost and instead about our awareness of him. The Spirit is always there, always striving with us unless we intentionally turn away from him, but the Gift sensitizes us to his presence. Think of the Gift like a hearing aid. The person who doesn't use one can understand what one is saying if they focus more and are not distracted by the background noises but the person who uses one finds focusing easier, noises less confusing, may pick up on nuances. 2
stemelbow Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Just now, Calm said: I would say the difference is less about the presence of the Holy Ghost and instead about our awareness of him. The Spirit is always there, always striving with us unless we intentionally turn away from him, but the Gift sensitizes us to his presence. Think of the Gift like a hearing aid. The person who doesn't use one can understand what one is saying if they focus more and are not distracted by the background noises but the person who uses one finds focusing easier, noises less confusing, may pick up on nuances. That's interesting, Calm. Do you know of any leaders who have suggested that the gift sensitizes us to His presence? I've never heard it that way, but your idea is interesting.
Maidservant Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 OOOORRRRRRR . . . . 3 Nephi 9:20 "And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not." So the requirement for the Holy Ghost is to come before God with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. 1
Calm Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 6 hours ago, stemelbow said: That's interesting, Calm. Do you know of any leaders who have suggested that the gift sensitizes us to His presence? I've never heard it that way, but your idea is interesting. Pulling one of my too little sleep last night days and running out of steam but determined not to pass out before the proper time so as not to screw up another night...but just not up to thinking enough to do a search on this as this would require some creativity with search terms and reading lots. I don't know if it is my own thought or one inspired by what leaders said at this point. Remind me to search in a day or two please. I think this way in part because of my own personal experience with not being able to feel the Spirit for several years due to medication but slowly becoming aware that he was still operating in the vicinity to direct me. 1
halconero Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Maybe this will change your perspective: What if the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't the Holy Ghost, but a gift from the Holy Ghost? Of may be more indicative of what the Holy Ghost promises us within the covenant relationship and less of some possession of him. The key gift of the Holy Ghost, and the one relevant to our salvation and exaltation, is that he is the 3rd party agent, executor, and testator of the will/inheritance of Christ and the Father. Thing inheritance rights and he's the one endowed with legal authority to oversee the disperse meant of the properties, privileges, rewards, and other blessings of eternal life. Losing the Gift of the Holy Ghost may not result in losing his influence, but it will result in an abrogation of the right to have him execute the inheritance of eternal life. 1
deli_llama Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, Garden Girl said: I'm having difficulty with the quote function, but finally got these two... both of which are snide and misrepresent the LDS view of the gift of the Holy Ghost, i.e., there is no "standby line" etc. Or did I misunderstand misguided attempts at humor(?)... GG Knowing's half the battle. The Go Joe reference was to the G.I. cartoon variety and not to Joseph Smith. Not everyone likes the same flavor of wit, such is life, but yes it was humor. Probably more generous and less malicious—snide was the term—than you are thinking though. Note to myself: No more poking fun at our cultural idiosyncrasies. I will now go enjoy this dish of wit with a side of crow. Failed humor, again. 12 hours ago, Calm said: I would say the difference is less about the presence of the Holy Ghost and instead about our awareness of him. The Spirit is always there, always striving with us unless we intentionally turn away from him, but the Gift sensitizes us to his presence. Think of the Gift like a hearing aid. I would say that there is some, read much, truth in what you say there. It is my experience that we need the Gift of the Holy Ghost just like a person hard-of-hear needs a hearing aid, it isn't a reward or a prize. It is a help given because we need it. Kinda in the same way that the blessings from the initiatories restore to us much (or all?) what was lost in our fall. It is something given to us because of our lack, not our righteousness. 12 hours ago, Calm said: Think of the Gift like a hearing aid. The person who doesn't use one can understand what one is saying if they focus more and are not distracted by the background noises but the person who uses one finds focusing easier, noises less confusing, may pick up on nuances. I appreciate your whole comment, I especially appreciate you pointing this last bit out. It has also been my experience, while working with a few indigenous populations and cultures, that there are groups of people who's way of being and perceiving the world around them lends itself to producing spiritually non-deaf (or hard-of-hearing) persons. The more I watch and work with them the more is stand amazed and humbled at their ability to communicate plainly with the Spirit—in all of its various shades of nuance and subtlety. Often their way of being is such that there aren't background noises to be distracted by. At least for me, this is not the case, so I very grateful the gift and the endowment are provided because of my weakness. Edited February 18, 2016 by deli_llama Oops. 1
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