Your Bill Is Coming Due

[etz]

Throughout this post, the JST ( http://centerplace.org/hs/iv/ ) is made use of instead of the KJV.

If you agree that Jesus spoke the words attributed to him in the Book of Mormon and in the Bible, and if you agree that by entering into the waters of baptism you have entered into a covenant to be obedient to him until the end of your life, and if you have partaken of the sacrament, then you have witnessed before God, the Father, that you are willing to keep the commandments of the Lord.

Moroni 4

 3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

JST John 14

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me; because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me; and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, (not Iscariot,) Lord, how is it thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words; and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings; and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

If you love Jesus, keep his commandments.  You love Jesus if, and only if, you keep his commandments.  If you keep his commandments, he will come to you, and he will bring the Father to you.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:3

3 John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

The visit spoken of is literal, and in this world.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to [my] glory.

 22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

 24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

Remember, the idea that one receives Jesus in one's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.  To receive Jesus therefore means to take him into your home.  If you do not receive him in the world, then you do not know him, and you do not receive exaltation.  If you receive him in the world, then you know him, and will receive exaltation.

Putting it all together, you love Jesus if, and only if, you keep his commandments.  If you keep his commandments, he will come to you, and you will receive him into your home.  If you receive him into your home, he will bring the Father to you, and you will receive your exaltation.

Doctrine and Covenants 82:10

10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

If you do not keep his commandments, you have no promise of any of these things.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:21

21 [W]hen we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

So what are the commandments of the Lord?  For brevity, here is the shortest version.

JST Luke 6

20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed are the poor; for theirs is the kingdom of God.

21 Blessed are they who hunger now; for they shall be filled. Blessed are they who weep now; for they shall laugh.

22 Blessed are ye when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from among them, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake.

23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy; for behold your reward shall be great in heaven; for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

24 But woe unto you that are rich! For ye have received your consolation.

25 Woe unto you who are full! For ye shall hunger. Woe unto you who laugh now! For ye shall mourn and weep.

26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

27 But I say unto you who hear my words, Love your enemies, do good to them who hate you.

28 Bless them who curse you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you.

29 And unto him who smiteth thee on the cheek, offer also the other; or, in other words, it is better to offer the other, than to revile again. And him who taketh away thy cloak, forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 For it is better that thou suffer thine enemy to take these things, than to contend with him. Verily I say unto you, Your heavenly Father who seeth in secret, shall bring that wicked one into judgment.

31 Therefore give to every man who asketh of thee; and of him who taketh away thy goods, ask them not again.

32 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

33 For if ye love them only who love you, what reward have you? For sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what reward have you? For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great; and ye shall be the children of the Highest; for he is kind unto the unthankful, and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged; condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned; forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal, it shall be measured to you again.

39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? Shall they not both fall into the ditch?

40 A disciple is not above his master; but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

41 And why beholdest thou the mote which is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam which is in thine own eye?

42 Again, how canst thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam which is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote which is in thy brother's eye.

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit;

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is good. And an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is evil; for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like.

48 He is like a man who built a house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock, and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it; for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he who heareth and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built a house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

These teachings are repeated three times throughout scripture.  Three times.  Three.

3 Nephi 12:20

20 Therefore come unto me and be ye saved; for verily I say unto you, that except ye shall keep my commandments, which I have commanded you at this time, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Are you keeping these sayings of Jesus?  Are you performing them daily?  Are you giving to every man that asketh?  Are you lending to all, not hoping to receive again?  Are you returning reviling for reviling, or are you patiently enduring abuse?

These are, after all, the things you have agreed to do.  You therefore are obligated to do them.

And, remember further, great promises are offered to those who both do and teach them.

JST Matthew 5:21 Whosoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so to do, he shall in no wise be saved in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach these commandments of the law until it be fulfilled, the same shall be called great, and shall be saved in the kingdom of heaven.

Whoever breaks the least of these commandments, and teaches men to do likewise, are promised they shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven, while those who both do them and teach them are promised they shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

JST Luke 14

 25 And when he had finished these sayings, he departed thence, and there went great multitudes with him, and he turned and said unto them,

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, or husband, yea and his own life also; or in other words, is afraid to lay down his life for my sake, cannot be my disciple.

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

28 Therefore, settle this in your hearts, that ye will do the things which I shall teach, and command you.

29 For which of you intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have money to finish his work?

30 Lest, unhappily, after he has laid the foundation and is not able to finish his work, all who behold, begin to mock him,

31 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. And this he said, signifying there should not any man follow him, unless he was able to continue; saying,

32 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand, to meet him who cometh against him with twenty thousand.

33 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an embassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

34 So likewise, whosoever of you forsaketh not all that he hath he cannot be my disciple.

He meant it.  And do not think to claim that by your loyalty to the prophets and apostles of the Church that you can bypass the requirements Jesus has set.

35 Then certain of them came to him saying, Good Master, we have Moses and the prophets, and whosoever shall live by them, shall he not have life?

36 And Jesus answered, saying, Ye know not Moses, neither the prophets; for if ye had known them, ye would have believed on me; for to this intent they were written. For I am sent that ye might have life. Therefore I will liken it unto salt which is good;

37 But if the salt had lost its savor, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

38 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dung hill; men cast it out. He who hath ears to hear, let him hear. These things he said, signifying that which was written, verily must all be fulfilled.

So likewise if you keep not his sayings, even while claiming loyalty to the prophets, you are as salt that has lost its savor, a covenant people claiming Jesus for king yet not obeying the king's laws, and therefore are covenant-breakers, good for nothing but to be cast out.

Those who teach you that you owe less to the Lord than you have covenanted to do are the unjust steward, who will be sharing lodging with you in everlasting habitations if you agree with them (see JST Luke 16).  Time is short, and your bill is coming due. 

Therefore, do not procrastinate the day of your fulfillment of your own words, covenants, witnesses, and agreements, but begin today to keep the commandments of the Lord that he delivered by his own voice to his people, that you may be accounted worthy of him visiting.

Hebrews 13:2

2 Be not forgetful to entertain [bring into your home] strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

And who knows but that the angel in disguise might be the Lord himself, seeing if you are one of his disciples.

[Ahab]

Kinda preachy, aren't ya.

Do you have anything new to tell me or do you just want to preach what others have already told me?

[MorningStar]

I paid my bills this morning. 

[JLHPROF]

Love being called to repentance by a complete stranger and a TL;DR post.

[Doctor Steuss]

I remember my first rameumptom.

[Christian Mormon]

I really appreciate all this in one posting. It's a good resource to teach others that we ARE saved by works. Thanks for the time and effort put into this post.

[filovirus]

D&C 20

77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this breadto the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, andwitness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

 

Did you notice that key word I bolded?

[bluebell]

Where does the Atonement enter in to all this?

[The Nehor]

Isn't this why we used to require people to make a dozen or so posts before we let them start threads?

[Guest]

Sounds like someone got the red light in Sacrament, and finished their sermon here.  Very informative, but hard to get through in a single read. So the "Long and Short" of it, is endure until the end. 

[mfbukowski]

20 minutes ago, Christian Mormon said:

I really appreciate all this in one posting. It's a good resource to teach others that we ARE saved by works. Thanks for the time and effort put into this post.

Yes you are right but every quote is either JST or BOM or D&C

Not likely to be effective for non-members.

I appreciate the reminder to be more kind.  That was helpful

Edited January 20, 2016 by mfbukowski

[The Nehor]

Have you considered starting a blog? I would like you to warn me some more about whatever you were warning me about.

[mfbukowski]

13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Where does the Atonement enter in to all this?

Yep.

I find more and more that repentance needs a lot of practice

Thank God my Atonement Credit Card is on standby until I get the bill paid off.

(Guess what? The interest alone would kill us.  Good thing that if we are doing our best our Rich Dad will refinance us and forgive the debt)

 

[consiglieri]

36 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

I remember my first rameumptom.

I told him we already got one!

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Yes you are right but every quote is either JST or BOM or D&C

Not likely to be effective for non-members.

I appreciate the reminder to be more kind.  That was helpful

Yes, and the JST (inspired revision, inspired version) is not part of the Mormon Canon.  It was the work of Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon in trying to clarify the Bible.  It was also never finished or published in Joseph's lifetime.

[Thinking]

Write on the chalkboard 100 times the following sentence.

This is a discussion board.

This is a discussion board.

...

[Bobbieaware]

I instantly knew what what the original poster was attempting to do, and I'm surprised no one here seems to have caught on. He is an Evangelical Christian who is trying to prove the futility of believing in a system of salvation that teaches one can be saved by keeping the commandments of God. Because of his ignorance of true LDS doctrine (what he thinks we believe is a caricature that exists only in his mind) he thinks by composing his lengthy post he has scored the equivalent of a grand slam home run for 'Team Evangelical' against 'Team LDS.'

Edited January 20, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Calm]

Quote

he will come to you

What exactly do you mean by this?

------

The title would suggest an evangelical and if so, then he is attacking his own beliefs which seems to me bearing false witness unless he admits to pretending to be other than he is, which iirc is against the board rules and if so, he has again fallen into deception by promising he would abide by the rules (otherwise he would not have been able to post) and then imediately breaking those rules..  

Quote

Remember, the idea that one receives Jesus in one's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Calm

[deli_llama]

Hey.  How can your first post be in the General Discussion area?  Don't you have to go play in the Social Hall first? Tricky trickster. 

[Avatar4321]

thankfully Jesus took care of the bill.

[Raingirl]

How many LDS sites did you hit with this today, Sir Spamalot?  'Cuz  this isn't the only place I've seen you post this today.

And is it only the LDS you think are going to hell or have you rendered judgment on other churches/denominations/religions, too?

 

I kinda wanna say something about basements and moms, but might get in trouble.....

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

I instantly knew what what the original poster was attempting to do, and I'm surprised no one here seems to have caught on. He is an Evangelical Christian who is trying to prove the futility of believing in a system of salvation that teaches one can be saved by keeping the commandments of God. Because of his ignorance of true LDS doctrine (what he thinks we believe is a caricature that exists only in his mind) he thinks by composing his lengthy post he has scored the equivalent of a grand slam home run for 'Team Evangelical' against 'Team LDS.'

I have no idea what denomination he is but yes, he is an anti based on this op alone.

If I knew what faith or lack thereof he held I would probably give a long rambling caricature of his faith to even things out but he did not so I will just mock him.

[etz]

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

Where does the Atonement enter in to all this?

The atonement comes with a covenant of obedience, which covenant is what we witness publicly by being baptized.

Quote

Mosiah 18:10

10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

...
13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world.

And again:

Quote

2 Nephi 31

 13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

 14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.

 15 And I heard a voice from the Father, saying: Yea, the words of my Beloved are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

To deny Christ means to fail to do what he commands of you.

Quote

Alma 34:38

38 That ye contend no more against the Holy Ghost, but that ye receive it, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.

So, if you have taken upon you the name of Christ by baptism, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost and thereby partaken of the Atonement and the covenant of obedience incidental to it, then the path of discipleship beckons - keeping Jesus's sayings until one's faith is perfected.

Quote

2 Nephi 9:23

23 And he commandeth all men that they must repent, and be baptized in his name, having perfect faith in the Holy One of Israel, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God

 

Quote

Ether 12:28

28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.

If not, then this might help.

Quote

Alma 22

 15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.

 16 But Aaron said unto him: If thou desirest this thing, if thou wilt bow down before God, yea, if thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest.

 17 And it came to pass that when Aaron had said these words, the king did bow down before the Lord, upon his knees; yea, even he did prostrate himself upon the earth, and cried mightily, saying:

 18 O God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day. And now when the king had said these words, he was struck as if he were dead.

That's also the point of Enos 1:1-8.

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Helaman 14:13

13 And if ye believe on his name ye will repent of all your sins, that thereby ye may have a remission of them through his merits.

 

Quote

Mosiah 4:10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

 

Quote

2 Nephi 25:29

29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by etz

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, etz said:

The atonement comes with a covenant of obedience, which covenant is what we witness publicly by being baptized.

And again:

To deny Christ means to fail to do what he commands of you.

So, if you have taken upon you the name of Christ by baptism, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost and thereby partaken of the Atonement and the covenant of obedience incidental to it, then the path of discipleship beckons - keeping Jesus's sayings until one's faith is perfected.

 

If not, then this might help.

That's also the point of Enos 1:1-8.

 

 

 

Nightlion, is that you?

[bluebell]

27 minutes ago, etz said:

The atonement comes with a covenant of obedience, which covenant is what we witness publicly by being baptized.

And again:

To deny Christ means to fail to do what he commands of you.

So, if you have taken upon you the name of Christ by baptism, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost and thereby partaken of the Atonement and the covenant of obedience incidental to it, then the path of discipleship beckons - keeping Jesus's sayings until one's faith is perfected.

 

If not, then this might help.

That's also the point of Enos 1:1-8.

 

 

 

You quote the scriptures, but you don't understand them. 

If it were possible to keep the commandments perfectly, we wouldn't have any use for the atonement. It makes no sense to try to suggest that our doctrine is that keeping the commandments perfectly is necessary before one can access the saving power of Christ's grace.