Your Bill Is Coming Due

[stemelbow]

38 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My position is that no one can keep all the commandments perfectly all the time. That is why we need Christ and the atonement. 

Indeed.  that we fail in doing good always is exactly what we need.  It's odd stuff in a way.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, etz said:

To Rain, I do not have 10,000.  Therefore I cannot grant your request.

To Nehor, to declare a need is not to make a request.  Therefore, there is no request to grant other than your request for a PM.

As I mentioned, the argumentum ad hominem: tu quoque variant.

You will please note that while I have done no evil, and while I have solely repeated the commandments of the Lord, these two characters are literally asking me for my life, simply so they can prove a point, as they imagine.

Remember: you all have the scriptures, and they say what they say, and you promised to do it.  You have scorned, mocked, and reviled me, and sought my life.  These things you have done unto me are not the actions of disciples of Christ.

Climb down off of the stake Justin. Being questioned and disagreed with is not the same thing as being mocked, scorned, reviled, or having your life sought. 

Try dialing back the drama and just having a discussion. It will work better. 

[ttribe]

Just came in to say that this is one of the most bizarre threads I've seen on any message board on the Internet.

That is all.

[Jeanne]

etz, what if someone wants your child..takes him/her ..at what price are debts forgiven?

Edited January 21, 2016 by Jeanne

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, etz said:

To Rain, I do not have 10,000.  Therefore I cannot grant your request.

To Nehor, to declare a need is not to make a request.  Therefore, there is no request to grant other than your request for a PM.

As I mentioned, the argumentum ad hominem: tu quoque variant.

You will please note that while I have done no evil, and while I have solely repeated the commandments of the Lord, these two characters are literally asking me for my life, simply so they can prove a point, as they imagine.

Remember: you all have the scriptures, and they say what they say, and you promised to do it.  You have scorned, mocked, and reviled me, and sought my life.  These things you have done unto me are not the actions of disciples of Christ.

Fair enough, I now asketh of thee $20,000.

Do you not trust in God that he will reward you a hundredfold. You are seeking to save your life by denying my request which scripturaly means you shall lose it. Tsk, tsk.

[Tacenda]

Maybe etz is making a good point.  We don't near follow the commandments, it's impossible to follow everyone of them unless you're a God or Jesus.  Think about it.  I think what etz might be getting after is that we are so indebted to Jesus for our salvation.  We ought to live with that that thought day in and day out.  We need that total regenerative heart.  Oh well, been listening to too many EV's I guess.....

[Avatar4321]

3 hours ago, etz said:

To Rain, I do not have 10,000.  Therefore I cannot grant your request.

To Nehor, to declare a need is not to make a request.  Therefore, there is no request to grant other than your request for a PM.

As I mentioned, the argumentum ad hominem: tu quoque variant.

You will please note that while I have done no evil, and while I have solely repeated the commandments of the Lord, these two characters are literally asking me for my life, simply so they can prove a point, as they imagine.

Remember: you all have the scriptures, and they say what they say, and you promised to do it.  You have scorned, mocked, and reviled me, and sought my life.  These things you have done unto me are not the actions of disciples of Christ.

so you can't keep that commandment...

[Rain]

3 hours ago, etz said:

To Rain, I do not have 10,000.  Therefore I cannot grant your request.

To Nehor, to declare a need is not to make a request.  Therefore, there is no request to grant other than your request for a PM.

As I mentioned, the argumentum ad hominem: tu quoque variant.

You will please note that while I have done no evil, and while I have solely repeated the commandments of the Lord, these two characters are literally asking me for my life, simply so they can prove a point, as they imagine.

Remember: you all have the scriptures, and they say what they say, and you promised to do it.  You have scorned, mocked, and reviled me, and sought my life.  These things you have done unto me are not the actions of disciples of Christ.

Honestly, I felt like you were trying to make a point/accusation to begin with, but if you mean something else by it please put it in your own words in one or two sentences.  And please leave hyperbole out of it. 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Rain

[volgadon]

3 hours ago, etz said:

To Rain, I do not have 10,000.  Therefore I cannot grant your request.

To Nehor, to declare a need is not to make a request.  Therefore, there is no request to grant other than your request for a PM.

As I mentioned, the argumentum ad hominem: tu quoque variant.

You will please note that while I have done no evil, and while I have solely repeated the commandments of the Lord, these two characters are literally asking me for my life, simply so they can prove a point, as they imagine.

Remember: you all have the scriptures, and they say what they say, and you promised to do it.  You have scorned, mocked, and reviled me, and sought my life.  These things you have done unto me are not the actions of disciples of Christ.

Do you know what this kind of loophole is called by Christ? Read Mark 7:9-13 to find out.

[volgadon]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Nearly everyone has 10,000 dollars right at their fingertips.  Simply apply for a loan and you'll likely find someone willing to give it to you.

I think you can get that to Rain fairly soon. 

His willingness to follow the commandments ends when the commandment is priced around 10000.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Maybe etz is making a good point.  We don't near follow the commandments, it's impossible to follow everyone of them unless you're a God or Jesus.  Think about it.  I think what etz might be getting after is that we are so indebted to Jesus for our salvation.  We ought to live with that that thought day in and day out.  We need that total regenerative heart.  Oh well, been listening to too many EV's I guess.....

I doubt it. I should add that the requested PM I got from Etz was really stupid. I am not convinced he is dedicated to giving good gifts.

[Ahab]

I think we should all say thank you to etz for showing us all a great example of how people can misinterpret and misunderstand the scriptures. 

Giving to others who ask for things from us doesn't mean we should give them whatever they ask for.  It just means we should give something to them, rather than giving them nothing at all.  A kind word or some good advice or even just a smile is something everyone should be able to give to anybody.

When I think of our Lord's counsel to "turneth not away" from those who ask for things from us I think of that meaning to not ignore people or acting like they do not exist.

Like when beggars on the street ask me for spare change. I do not ignore them, and I make sure to give them something even if it is only a smile and some good advice.  Like telling them where they can go to find a homeless shelter nearby to get some food and maybe a bed to sleep on. Homeless shelters I know of and have contributed to. And sometimes when I have some change I give them some of that, too.

 

[Sleeper Cell]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 6:20 AM, etz said:

To Rain, I do not have 10,000.  Therefore I cannot grant your request.

Then give me your computer -- the one you are using to post on this discussion board.  I assure you that doing this will bless the lives of many people.  And all of them will be very grateful.  

[etz]

I have no money.

I do not own the device I use to post here.

God's chief complaint against the priests of Noah, delivered through Abinadi, was that those wicked, iniquitous priests neither taught, nor kept, the commandments of God (Mosiah 12:29-31). And they ultimately sought, and took, Abinadi's life in the attempt to get him to deny the commandments of God (Mosiah 17:20).

You are neither teaching nor keeping the commandments of God as his priests had ought (Alma 13:1-6), but instead teach that they are impossible to keep.  And you scorn, revile, and mock those who teach the commandments of God, and seek their lives (by requiring their possessions; Deuteronomy 24:6).

You delight to contend over the evidences of the historicity of the Book of Mormon while neglecting to observe its contents (D&C 84:54-59).

Quote

1 Nephi 13:40-41, Earliest Text

40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: 
These last records [the Book of Mormon] which thou hast seen among the Gentiles 
shall establish the truth of the first [the New Testament], 
which is of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, 
and shall make known the plain and precious things 
which have been taken away from them 
and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people 
that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world 
and that all men must come unto him or they cannot be saved.

41 And they must come according to the words 
which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb. 
And the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed 
as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 
Wherefore they both shall be established in one,
for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

The words established by the mouth of the Lamb in both the Book of Mormon and the New Testament are the Sermon on the Mount.  All men must come unto Christ else they cannot be saved, and they must come in obedience to the commandments he spoke with his own mouth to his people in both the New World and the Old, contained in the Sermon.  These commandments are plain to the understanding of men.

Quote

3 Nephi 14:24-27, Earliest Text

24 Therefore whoso heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them,
I will liken him unto a wise man which built his house upon a rock.

25 And the rain descended and the floods came,
and the winds blew and beat upon that house.
And it fell not, for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not
shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon the sand.

27 And the rain descended and the floods came,
and the winds blew and beat upon that house.
And it fell, and great was the fall of it.

Quote

3 Nephi 15:1, Earliest Text

And now it came to pass that when Jesus had ended these sayings,
he cast his eyes round about on the multitude and saith unto them:
Behold, ye have heard the things
which I have taught before I ascended to my Father.
Therefore whoso remembereth these sayings of mine and doeth them,
him will I raise up at the last day.

I am only here to remind you of your duty to God.  If you are his servants, as you publicly declared yourselves to be by baptism, sacrament, and endowments, you had ought to serve him according to his commandments.

Edited October 20, 2016 by etz

[etz]

Mosiah 15

26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.

27 Therefore ought ye not to tremble? For salvation cometh to none such; for the Lord hath redeemed none such; yea, neither can the Lord redeem such; for he cannot deny himself; for he cannot deny justice when it has its claim.

2 Nephi 9

26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel.

27 But wo unto him that has the law given, yea, that has all the commandments of God, like unto us, and that transgresseth them, and that wasteth the days of his probation, for awful is his state!

28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

Mosiah 4

6 I say unto you, if ye have come to a knowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the atonement which has been prepared from the foundation of the world, that thereby salvation might come to him that should put his trust in the Lord, and should be diligent in keeping his commandments, and continue in the faith even unto the end of his life, I mean the life of the mortal body--

7 I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the fall of Adam, or who are, or who ever shall be, even unto the end of the world.

8 And this is the means whereby salvation cometh. And there is none other salvation save this which hath been spoken of; neither are there any conditions whereby man can be saved except the conditions which I have told you.

9 Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

10 And again, believe that ye must repent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in sincerity of heart that he would forgive you; and now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them.

[Nemesis]

We have a no proselytizing rule.  

 

Nemesis