Worthiness Interviews: Is There A Better Way?

[Calm]

No it doesn't. You are required to pay a full tithe, whatever that means for you. For most people that means there is money exchanged. That is the standard. If you earn $0 you pay $0 but that is still a full tithe. There aren't many people who earn $0 though.

That is not what the claim was. The claim was we had to payto access the temple.

From what I've seen, there are plenty of Saints in the world with no income.

Here again is the claim he made:

"...paying for access to the temple (you have to be paying tithing to attend)..."

Those who have no tithing to pay do not have to be paying tithing to attend, and most definitely do not have to pay for access to the temple.

Edited September 8, 2015 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

No. The person being interviewed has the option of recording if they choose. The person being interviewed can bring a 3rd party. TR interviews are not confessionals.

 

-set clear standards for interviews, identifying inappropriate subject matter (mostly around LoC issues)

-give the interviewee options to make them feel more comfortable

-hold leaders accountable if they ask or do anything inappropriate

 

I think this would be a good start. Would anyone disagree with this?

I disagree. I have had priesthood leaders ask searching questions inspired by the spirit that helped me or led me to reveal a struggle that they could counsel me on. Take that ability away and you might as well have temple recommends done by a computer survey with yes/no answers.

I trust my leaders more then I want to maximize my own comfort (whatever that means) or then I trust whoever will be vetting this accountability committee that is supposed to oversee the bishop.

[HappyJackWagon]

I disagree. I have had priesthood leaders ask searching questions inspired by the spirit that helped me or led me to reveal a struggle that they could counsel me on. Take that ability away and you might as well have temple recommends done by a computer survey with yes/no answers.

I trust my leaders more then I want to maximize my own comfort (whatever that means) or then I trust whoever will be vetting this accountability committee that is supposed to oversee the bishop.

I'm glad you trust your leaders but I don't trust mine to do and say only appropriate things to my children. And I have good reason why.

 

So if you don't like those very simple suggestions, maybe we could get rid of required interviews and keep the option of voluntary confession available with leaders.

 

So, if I don't trust my leaders and they are unwilling to make simple allowances to make me and my children more comfortable with the process, and if they are unwilling to be held accountable for their misbehavior then why should I subject my children to that?

[The Nehor]

I'm glad you trust your leaders but I don't trust mine to do and say only appropriate things to my children. And I have good reason why.

 

So if you don't like those very simple suggestions, maybe we could get rid of required interviews and keep the option of voluntary confession available with leaders.

 

So, if I don't trust my leaders and they are unwilling to make simple allowances to make me and my children more comfortable with the process, and if they are unwilling to be held accountable for their misbehavior then why should I subject my children to that?

Are your children uncomfortable or are you uncomfortable?

[HappyJackWagon]

That is not what the claim was. The claim was we had to payto access the temple.

From what I've seen, there are plenty of Saints in the world with no income.

Here again is the claim he made:

"...paying for access to the temple (you have to be paying tithing to attend)..."

Those who have no tithing to pay do not have to be paying tithing to attend, and most definitely do not have to pay for access to the temple.

Of course that's what the claim was. You just don't like the way it was worded but clearly that was the intent.

I suspect an income of absolute $0 would be pretty rare. Even children earn a dollar from the tooth fair or for mowing a neighbors lawn. Others could earn interest on desposits at the bank. Even if it's pennies based on todays deposit rates, it's still not $0.00

[HappyJackWagon]

Are your children uncomfortable or are you uncomfortable?

My children don't know enough to realize they should be uncomfortable. They are innocent and naive. But I guarantee once the inappropriate questions come, they will be uncomfortable. But by then it will be too late to protect them from it.

[DJBrown]

I'm glad you trust your leaders but I don't trust mine to do and say only appropriate things to my children. And I have good reason why.

 

So if you don't like those very simple suggestions, maybe we could get rid of required interviews and keep the option of voluntary confession available with leaders.

 

So, if I don't trust my leaders and they are unwilling to make simple allowances to make me and my children more comfortable with the process, and if they are unwilling to be held accountable for their misbehavior then why should I subject my children to that?

 

Are those reasons for not entirely trusting your leaders personal experiences or things you have read about others?

[The Nehor]

My children don't know enough to realize they should be uncomfortable. They are innocent and naive. But I guarantee once the inappropriate questions come, they will be uncomfortable. But by then it will be too late to protect them from it.

As a teenager being asked a question by my bishop about the law of chastity was much less uncomfortable then my parents doing it or, even worse, my parents wanting to be involved in some way when I met with the bishop. I think your fears are overblown.

I say this as someone who had a parent who actually asked me worthiness questions at times.

[HappyJackWagon]

Are those reasons for not entirely trusting your leaders personal experiences or things you have read about others?

Personal experience with my current leaders. Sure, I've read plenty of stories from others as well but my daughter told me about her last interview in June. She was surprised by some of the "extra" questions the bishop asked during her birthday interview. She's 17. I won't subject my 12 and 14 year old to that.

[Tacenda]

-Have the bishop & another adult, a parent or a counselor conduct interviews together. Essentially require ecclesiastical leaders to follow the 2 deep leadership plan (may seem a bit overwhelming to the youth to have multiple adults in meeting)

I could see this working... although give the interviewee the option of going without a third party if that would be an issue with privacy or embarrassment. Its kind of hard to have a confidential process with a witness.

-Have the youth bring a person of their choosing to the interview

​This can be done now. Or at least I know of no restriction if the parent and child agree. But it could be a hindrance if the child is under duress from the parent or other party.

-Require all interviewers to stick strictly to the approved questions and ask them ONLY as written. No additions, especially with regard to LoC issues.

This is something leaders hear in training. Sometimes it helps to ask people to elaborate when giving counsel, but as far as worthiness interviews for callings, temple recommends, and ordinations, it is supposed to be verbatim.

-Get rid of annual and semi-annual worthiness interviews (Not TR interviews)

Is there such a thing? I know of Bishoprics that want to visit with the youth regularly to check in on how they are doing, but I don't think those are categorized as worthiness interviews. The only time I'm aware of "worthiness" being confessed is for temple and calling related issues.

-Allow youth or all members to record the interviews if they inform the interviewer at the beginning

Again I can see some real privacy issues coming from this.

-Do interviews in plain sight or at least have a window in the Bishop's office or any place where interviews occur

Agreed. There are ways to be visible without others being in earshot. This is how the BSA recommends interviews be done.

-Do not solicit/coerce confessions by asking increasingly personal, explicit questions

This is already discouraged and has been for decades. Leaders are not to ask people to elaborate on sins, details of tithing, etc.

My son was called in almost on a weekly basis, according to him, he exaggerates though, during deciding whether to go on a mission. One day he punched the wall out of frustration.

Bishops should not just go on a whim and check in with the youth like that, it becomes abusive, well maybe it was the fact my son is incredibly shy around people he doesn't know well, and this bishop had a habit of going on and on. So now in hindsight, I see how my son must have suffered. I should have been more in tune.

[DJBrown]

Personal experience with my current leaders. Sure, I've read plenty of stories from others as well but my daughter told me about her last interview in June. She was surprised by some of the "extra" questions the bishop asked during her birthday interview. She's 17. I won't subject my 12 and 14 year old to that.

 

 

I am wondering whether you are critical of your bishop to your kids.  Don't answer that question if you think it inappropriate.

[Danzo]

Part of the problem is there isn't consistency. You say leaders are being taught in training not to do some of these things, yet I still see them happening. .

 

 

There never will be.

 

Despite what you often hear from critics, we do not all snap to attention every time the prophet says something.  

 

I think this is  good thing, but you may have a different opinion

[KevinG]

There never will be.

 

Despite what you often hear from critics, we do not all snap to attention every time the prophet says something.  

 

I think this is  good thing, but you may have a different opinion

 

Resistance if futile.  You will be assimilated.  

[Danzo]

My children don't know enough to realize they should be uncomfortable. They are innocent and naive. But I guarantee once the inappropriate questions come, they will be uncomfortable. But by then it will be too late to protect them from it.

 

Why do you think they will be uncomfortable?

[Danzo]

Resistance if futile.  You will be assimilated.  

 

I have often heard that people say Brigham Young  (or the church ) was the ruler of Utah and that the saints only followed him.

 

I can just imagine  Brigham Young (or the current church leaders) rolling their eyes and saying "If Only it were true!"

 

We can't get people to do their home teaching!

[hope_for_things]

Personal experience with my current leaders. Sure, I've read plenty of stories from others as well but my daughter told me about her last interview in June. She was surprised by some of the "extra" questions the bishop asked during her birthday interview. She's 17. I won't subject my 12 and 14 year old to that.

 

Simple fix I told my Bishop that one of us(parents) must be present for every interview with my children.  Its not an option its a requirement.  He seemed fine with it.  My oldest is only 13 so thankfully nothing uncomfortable has come up yet.  If it ever does, I will redirect or cut off the interviewer.  I think before my son turns 14 I'll talk with him about not answering any questions he's uncomfortable with.  Hopefully just having one of the parents present will curtail any impulse by a well intentioned leader to ask inappropriate questions.  

 

Overall, I just wish they would do away with the interviews.   

[Danzo]

Simple fix I told my Bishop that one of us(parents) must be present for every interview with my children. Its not an option its a requirement. He seemed fine with it. My oldest is only 13 so thankfully nothing uncomfortable has come up yet. If it ever does, I will redirect or cut off the interviewer. I think before my son turns 14 I'll talk with him about not answering any questions he's uncomfortable with. Hopefully just having one of the parents present will curtail any impulse by a well intentioned leader to ask inappropriate questions.

Overall, I just wish they would do away with the interviews.

What would you do if your child wanted an interview without you.

I know there were many interviews, that I had with the bishop when I was glad my parents weren't present.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Danzo

[Kenngo1969]

... Overall, I just wish they would do away with the interviews.   

Acts 5:29.

[Sleeper Cell]

Of course that's what the claim was. You just don't like the way it was worded but clearly that was the intent.

I suspect an income of absolute $0 would be pretty rare. 

 

 

I presume you are not self-employed.  

[Sleeper Cell]

I think it naïve to think that we as humans can judge the worthiness of other individuals.  

 

Yet, in your very next sentence, you proceed to do exactly that

 

… I think we are all already worthy and loved and good enough in God’s eyes

Edited September 9, 2015 by Sleeper Cell

[Rain]

I'd only be ok with recording if the bishop could record as well. Too many people would take advantage of recording like is done with the temple and a whole lot of bishops could be in trouble for things they didn't do.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I haven't had an income since July 3rd so I haven't had to pay tithing yet and I still got my temple recommend renewal.

[Calm]

So that makes at least 2 of us out of a hundred or so active posters who pay nothing to have access to the temple because even though we pay nothing, we are full tithe payers by our own definition.  I know my daughter would have gone for abt. 5 years not paying anything if she has been socially able to attend,.

 

Somehow I don't think finding a nonpaying full tithe payer is all that hard to do.

[Tacenda]

So that makes at least 2 of us out of a hundred or so active posters who pay nothing to have access to the temple because even though we pay nothing, we are full tithe payers by our own definition.  I know my daughter would have gone for abt. 5 years not paying anything if she has been socially able to attend,.

 

Somehow I don't think finding a nonpaying full tithe payer is all that hard to do.

Is this the same thing as when you don't have income but still work in the home or isn't it the same as when you are jointly paying the tithe using your husband's income? So technically you do pay it, as a couple?

[Rain]

We didn't pay anything when DH was unemployed and we went to the temple, but really I think both sides get the not getting money, not needing to pay tithing thing.

What really matters is intent. There is a difference in paying tithing so you can enter the temple and being worthy to enter the temple because you have paid tithing among other things. Paying tithing to enter is like paying admission to a movie or theme park. Paying tithing because you love the Lord and are grateful and then you are blessed to enter the temple is something much more. Someone who only pays it to get inside may not be worthy to enter.