Scriptural Support of Worthiness Interviews

[Dando]

Can someone help me understand the scriptural support for Temple worthiness interviews? Where is this practice derived from in LDS scriptures? (I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent; just trying to understand where it is grounded)

[Duncan]

3 minutes ago, Dando said:

Can someone help me understand the scriptural support for Temple worthiness interviews? Where is this practice derived from in LDS scriptures? (I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent; just trying to understand where it is grounded)

I looked the other day for this, I think? the only verse that talks about it is DC 107:72

And also to be a ^ajudge in Israel, to do the business of the church, to sit in ^bjudgment upon transgressors upon testimony as it shall be laid before him according to the laws, by the assistance of his ^ccounselors, whom he has chosen or will choose among the elders of the church.

[CV75]

11 minutes ago, Dando said:

Can someone help me understand the scriptural support for Temple worthiness interviews? Where is this practice derived from in LDS scriptures? (I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent; just trying to understand where it is grounded)

D&C 84:84 offers a precedent.

Also, 57:17-18 (the testimony of the just comes from the words of the interviewee).

Edited April 5, 2018 by CV75

[Gray]

34 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I looked the other day for this, I think? the only verse that talks about it is DC 107:72

And also to be a ^ajudge in Israel, to do the business of the church, to sit in ^bjudgment upon transgressors upon testimony as it shall be laid before him according to the laws, by the assistance of his ^ccounselors, whom he has chosen or will choose among the elders of the church.

That sounds like it's describing the kind of thing that the two victims of Joseph Bishop did - gave testimony about someone's transgressions. It doesn't sound like a worthiness interview.

[Dando]

36 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I looked the other day for this, I think? the only verse that talks about it is DC 107:72

And also to be a ^ajudge in Israel, to do the business of the church, to sit in ^bjudgment upon transgressors upon testimony as it shall be laid before him according to the laws, by the assistance of his ^ccounselors, whom he has chosen or will choose among the elders of the church.

This seems to justify disciplinary councils rather than worthiness interviews.

[Dando]

35 minutes ago, CV75 said:

D&C 84:84 offers a precedent.

Also, 57:17-18 (the testimony of the just comes from the words of the interviewee).

D&C 84:84 Therefore, let the morrow take thought for the things of itself.  {?}

 

D&C 57 ends at verse 16

[Gray]

I wonder if it might have some connection to Masonry? It appears there is some kind of interview you have to go through before joining the Masons. I don't know how it was done in the 19th century. Just a thought.

 

https://www.quora.com/What-should-I-be-mindful-of-when-meeting-with-my-local-Freemasonry-Lodge-for-an-interview

[Dando]

 I think you mean 58.  Which would be a great passage for disciplinary councils.  The "testimony of the just" would not be the testimony of those who are unworthy of the temple, so no point in asking them.

[CV75]

27 minutes ago, Dando said:

D&C 84:84 Therefore, let the morrow take thought for the things of itself.  {?}

D&C 57 ends at verse 16

Lemmie try this again: D&C 20:84; 58:17-19.

The first is a precedent to the temple recommend, "All members removing from the church where they reside, if going to a church where they are not known, may take a letter certifying that they are regular members and in good standing, which certificate may be signed by any elder or priest if the member receiving the letter is personally acquainted with the elder or priest, or it may be signed by the teachers or deacons of the church." The second is how the recommend is determined (by the judge; "to judge his people by the testimony of the just" who are those ascertained as worthy to receive the recommend). In 52:41, the recommend seems to refer to a document or certificate.

[Dando]

I'm suddenly reminded of the rules of Mormon Proof Text Bingo.  It's probably better to say "we have a prophet we don't need scriptural support" than to strain the gnat to conceive these passages as support for worthiness interviews.

[smac97]

56 minutes ago, Gray said:

That sounds like it's describing the kind of thing that the two victims of Joseph Bishop did - gave testimony about someone's transgressions. It doesn't sound like a worthiness interview.

I think the first part ("And also to be a judge in Israel, to do the business of the church...") is the relevant part for worthiness interviews.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

There are plenty of scriptures that speak of "worthiness," and to some extent the assessment thereof by those in authority:

• until he transgresses and is not accounted worthy, D&C 51:4.
• high priests who are worthy, D&C 68:15.
• cut off from the church, D&C 85:11.
• let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes, D&C 88:86.
• let those be chosen that are worthy, D&C 105:35.

Interviews would seem to be part and parcel of stewardship in the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

[CV75]

54 minutes ago, Dando said:

I'm suddenly reminded of the rules of Mormon Proof Text Bingo.  It's probably better to say "we have a prophet we don't need scriptural support" than to strain the gnat to conceive these passages as support for worthiness interviews.

LOL these scriptures were provided by a prophet, so...

[Gray]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I think the first part ("And also to be a judge in Israel, to do the business of the church...") is the relevant part for worthiness interviews.

Thanks,

-Smac

There's nothing in there about worthiness interviews.

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, Gray said:

There's nothing in there about worthiness interviews.

Not explicitly, but as has been posted, there is a lot about determining and certifying standing and worthiness. How was/is this to be determined without an interview (whatever you name it)?

[Dando]

Not denying that worthiness is a part of entering the temple.

Also not denying that there are passages in the D&C that call priesthood holders to be judges.

 

Just not seeing how those passages are a justification for worthiness interviews. (which doesn't mean they should be discontinued)

Edited April 5, 2018 by Dando

[Gray]

18 minutes ago, rongo said:

Not explicitly, but as has been posted, there is a lot about determining and certifying standing and worthiness. How was/is this to be determined without an interview (whatever you name it)?

In context, it looks like it was about certifying people who move to a new ward, to make sure they were trustworthy, right? Mormons had lots of enemies, this seems to have been a way of certifying that they actually Mormon in  good standing, and not a trouble maker. Perhaps that later evolved into the temple recommend, but that's not what it was about. Do you think I'm reading that correctly?

Edited April 5, 2018 by Gray

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, Dando said:

Not denying that worthiness is a part of entering the temple.

Also not denying that there are passages in the D&C that call priesthood holders to be judges.

Just not seeing how those passages are a justification for worthiness interviews. (which doesn't mean they should be discontinued)

Sooooooo  . . .

What did they base their "judgment" on or how did they determine worthiness? Superficial observation? Gut feeling? 

Serious question. Do you think that something akin to modern worthiness interviews wasn't practiced in the early Church? 

I realize that that is a separate question from whether even that was justified by scripture, but it seems from your line of reasoning and questioning that they handed out certificates with . . . no system at all for deciding who qualified. 

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, Gray said:

In context, it looks like it was about certifying people who move to a new ward, to make sure they were trustworthy, right? Mormons had lots of enemies, this seems to have been a way of certifying that they actually Mormon in  good standing, and not a trouble maker. Perhaps that later evolved into the temple recommend, but that's not what it was about. Do you think I'm reading that correctly?

I don't think it looked like our modern system, but I think there was an interview process with questions. 

How did they determine baptismal worthiness, for example? Simply a public altar call profession, and that was good enough? Could early Mormon leaders exercise discretion, or were they bound by people's honor system declarations? 

I don't know the technical history of worthiness interviews. But, I don't think the concept of them would have been foreign to early Mormons.

[hope_for_things]

3 hours ago, Dando said:

Can someone help me understand the scriptural support for Temple worthiness interviews? Where is this practice derived from in LDS scriptures? (I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent; just trying to understand where it is grounded)

It doesn't exist. 

[JAHS]

For some reason I thought of the very first worthiness interview by God with Adam:
And I, the Lord God, called unto Adam, and said unto him: Where goest thou?
And he said: I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I beheld that I was naked, and I hid myself.
And I, the Lord God, said unto Adam: Who told thee thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, if so thou shouldst surely die? (Moses 4: 15-17)

 

[hope_for_things]

3 hours ago, Dando said:

Can someone help me understand the scriptural support for Temple worthiness interviews? Where is this practice derived from in LDS scriptures? (I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent; just trying to understand where it is grounded)

Wait, remembering a scripture I used as a missionary now.  

Quote

6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the valley which he called Lemuel.

Obviously Lehi was a big believer in interviews as he clearly held them in his tent.  I think this is strong precedent for the practice. 

Interesting side note, there is archaeological evidence for the use of tents in ancient mesoamerica, so I'm calling this scriptural reference a BOGO, not only does it support the practice of Temple interviews, but it also supports the historicity of the BoM.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantean_figures

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Dando said:

Can someone help me understand the scriptural support for Temple worthiness interviews? Where is this practice derived from in LDS scriptures? (I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent; just trying to understand where it is grounded)

Alma 5 is an example of a group interview, which general authorities have conducted in some of the priesthood meetings I’ve witnessed. Alma 6 (tracks closely with Moroni 6) is an example of priesthood officers regulating the Church by ascertaining worthiness. The latter especially has its roots in Mosiah 26, where verse 29 is central to your question: “Therefore I say unto you, Go; and whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he has committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.” The remaining verses show how Alma subsequently set up regulations to accomplish these worthiness interviews.

[CV75]

51 minutes ago, JAHS said:

For some reason I thought of the very first worthiness interview by God with Adam:
And I, the Lord God, called unto Adam, and said unto him: Where goest thou?
And he said: I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I beheld that I was naked, and I hid myself.
And I, the Lord God, said unto Adam: Who told thee thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, if so thou shouldst surely die? (Moses 4: 15-17)

There are many such examples, but I think the OP is about the Lord's authorized mortal servants conducting worthiness interviews. 

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Gray said:

There's nothing in there about worthiness interviews.

And there's nothing in the Word of Wisdom about meth, cocaine, or heroin.  And yet...

Thanks,

-Smac