Joseph Smith's Polygamy

[KevinG]

I agree that there are still not many details given about Joseph's polygamy in any lesson material.  But at least it's mentioned. 

 

I remember the year we had The Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith for a lesson manual.  Plural marriage wasn't even mentioned as one of his teachings and the only reference to it was in the Introduction where it states not to discuss it because it's not pertinent to members today (or something along those lines).

 

Granted we learned very little about how to properly sacrifice a goat in our Old Testament class last year.

[ALarson]

Granted we learned very little about how to properly sacrifice a goat in our Old Testament class last year.

What's that got to do with including Joseph's teachings regarding plural marriage during the entire year that we studied Joseph's teachings?

[rockpond]

I agree that there are still not many details given about Joseph's polygamy in any lesson material.  But at least it's mentioned. 

 

I remember the year we had The Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith for a lesson manual.  Plural marriage wasn't even mentioned as one of his teachings and the only reference to it was in the Introduction where it states not to discuss it because it's not pertinent to members today (or something along those lines).

 

Ditto with the Brigham Young manual.

[why me]

If you're referring to Deseret Book as the church's "publishing arm" you would be incorrect. DB is a for profit company and it would be silly to assume that everything they publish is sanctioned as gospel by the church. They publish fiction, historical fiction, non-fiction, etc., which may have some draw for an LDS audience but a DB publication is not synonymous with a church publication.

 

If you were not referring to DB, could you please supply a list of books the Church published that teach about the seer stone? This is a CFR. Put up the references or retract

In the seer stone thread I listed several references where the seer stone was mentioned in the ensign. I don't have the inclination to do it again. However, you just need to put seer stone in the search engine at lds.org and get the results. Also, the seerstone has been mentioned in the Improvement Era. I also linked that publication. So, the members were informed in the past. I am not about to search through books that I no longer have. But the seerstone was certainly no secret when the translation process was mentioned.

Edited August 17, 2015 by why me

[Guest]

I'm not sure how this applies to me.

Then from who, as the same books written for us were available to any other reader. Or do you mean in Joseph's day, if that is what everyone is talking about maybe he should have just help load the weapons of the mob. As Abraham should have just told Pahroah that Sarah was his wife and then gently laid his head on the chopping block? You know I once asked on of the most rabid of anti-Mormons who finally had to admit that Joseph had no offspring except through Emma. Then he starts in on the young women Joseph was sealed to...I reminded him that he was also being sealed to women in their mid fifties. He asks me "what's the point?". So I ask, so do you think he had sex with them all...his reply was telling. He replied, "only the young ones". It was at this point when I told him his response had more to do with him than Joseph.

[HappyJackWagon]

In the seer stone thread I listed several references where the seer stone was mentioned in the ensign. I don't have the inclination to do it again. However, you just need to put seer stone in the search engine at lds.org and get the results. Also, the seerstone has been mentioned in the Improvement Era. I also linked that publication. So, the members were informed in the past. I am not about to search through books that I no longer have. But the seerstone was certainly no secret when the translation process was mentioned.

Those 3-4 references over 40 years were impressive but Church periodicals are not the same as church published books. You mentioned books that the church published. Which books? CFR 2nd call.

[JulieM]

In the seer stone thread I listed several references where the seer stone was mentioned in the ensign. I don't have the inclination to do it again. However, you just need to put seer stone in the search engine at lds.org and get the results. Also, the seerstone has been mentioned in the Improvement Era. I also linked that publication. So, the members were informed in the past. I am not about to search through books that I no longer have. But the seerstone was certainly no secret when the translation process was mentioned.

You were asked to list books.

Eta:

Oops, just saw your post too, Happy, stressing the same thing for why me!

Edited August 17, 2015 by JulieM

[ALarson]

why me,

I'm still waiting for you to answer my CFR too (regarding the book on Hyrum Smith that you stated contains much regarding how polygamy was lived.)

[jkwilliams]

Then from who, as the same books written for us were available to any other reader. Or do you mean in Joseph's day, if that is what everyone is talking about maybe he should have just help load the weapons of the mob. As Abraham should have just told Pahroah that Sarah was his wife and then gently laid his head on the chopping block? You know I once asked on of the most rabid of anti-Mormons who finally had to admit that Joseph had no offspring except through Emma. Then he starts in on the young women Joseph was sealed to...I reminded him that he was also being sealed to women in their mid fifties. He asks me "what's the point?". So I ask, so do you think he had sex with them all...his reply was telling. He replied, "only the young ones". It was at this point when I told him his response had more to do with him than Joseph.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that only an anti-Mormon would be troubled by Joseph's actions? I can't help it that his behavior bothers my conscience.

[KevinG]

What's that got to do with including Joseph's teachings regarding plural marriage during the entire year that we studied Joseph's teachings?

 

The manuals were specifically designed to teach things the Saints need for today.

 

Of course I would have been perfectly comfortable with discussions about polygamy and the principle in general.  Perhaps the next time round?

[Zakuska]

Ditto with the Brigham Young manual.

Yep, the church suppressing information again.

[why me]

why me,

I'm still waiting for you to answer my CFR too (regarding the book on Hyrum Smith that you stated contains much regarding how polygamy was lived.)

Hyrum Smith: A Life of Integrity by jeffrey O'Driscoll. On page 291, it mentions that hyrum entered into a plural marriage. How many know that hyrum was a polygamist? As I stated, polygamy was taught to other members at the time of Joseph Smith. And yet, the book was published by desseret in 2003. The book also mentions the problem with emma and the revelation in section 132. And on page 293, hyrum was also calling others to engage in plural marriage. Now, as a church member if I read that book, I would know much about polygamy and hyrum and joseph's involvement with it. And other members also. Should I then be shocked by the essays?

 

As a side note, the improvement era had an article in it about the multiple accounts of the first vision in 1970

 

. https://ia700802.us.archive.org/31/items/improvementera7304unse/improvementera7304unse.pdf

 

Maybe we need the ensign to become the improvement era again.

Edited August 17, 2015 by why me

[Guest]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that only an anti-Mormon would be troubled by Joseph's actions? I can't help it that his behavior bothers my conscience.

I getting at why so many as so moved by this issue and seem to have no issue with the practice in the past. I don't like the practice of polygamy in any age. Why what did you think I meant?

[KevinG]

Since Happy and others are so enamored with Calls for Reference.  It's your turn...

 

Show me an official statement that says "we should only study from approved sources".  (Quoting HJW)

[jkwilliams]

I getting at why so many as so moved by this issue and seem to have no issue with the practice in the past. I don't like the practice of polygamy in any age. Why what did you think I meant?

I am not bothered by polygamy. I'm bothered by dishonesty and coercion.

[JulieM]

Yep, the church suppressing information again.

I know! It's pretty crazy to think the manual would mention polygamy just because it was a major part of Brigham Young's life! After all, he only had 55 wives.

[Zakuska]

I know! It's pretty crazy to think the manual would mention polygamy just because it was a major part of Brigham Young's life! After all, he only had 55 wives.

Do you want the church to lose all of its assests by teaching Polygamy again?

[KevinG]

I know! It's pretty crazy to think the manual would mention polygamy just because it was a major part of Brigham Young's life! After all, he only had 55 wives.

 

How many were connubial?

 

How many were Joseph's for all eternity?

 

Do you know these things or do you just smart off because you think you know?

[ALarson]

Hyrum Smith: A Life of Integrity by jeffrey O'Driscoll. On page 291, it mentions that hyrum entered into a plural marriage. How many know that hyrum was a polygamist? As I stated, polygamy was taught to other members at the time of Joseph Smith. And yet, the book was published by desseret in 2003. The book also mentions the problem with emma and the revelation in section 132.

Well, I'd call that a major fail on your part.

 

You stated this (emphasis added):

Well,  this is a good point and something that I also wrote about. We knew much in the past. The church's publishing arm was publishing books about many of the things that critics claim were being kept secret. It seems that many members did not read books. And yet, many certainly had libraries of lds books in their home. Now the church is 'being open' about many things that they were open about in the past. I think that the problem is really simple: this information was not in the  manuals. Thus, the problem since very few members seem to reading books. For example, if they would have read the biography of hyrum smith by o'driscoll, they would have learned much about the polygamy issue. This book was published in 2003 by church publishers.

 

http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/1570088578

 

[Zakuska]

How many were connubial?

 

How many were Joseph's for all eternity?

 

Do you know these things or do you just smart off because you think you know?

 

Did you know Joseph Smith Married 2 Babies?  Nudge-wink.

[rockpond]

Do you want the church to lose all of its assests by teaching Polygamy again?

 

There is a difference between teaching members to be polygamous and being accurate with a manual devoted to BY's teachings.

 

I understand why they took BY's statements out of context to create a manual for our day.  But I believe it's having negative ramifications now.

[Zakuska]

Even teachings that don't apply to us today?  You'd think the Church would have demolished his house in Downtown Salt Lake already for all the nefariousness that gets layed down by the critics at the feet of the church.

 

Ooooh... the big bad church is at it again. Let the conspiracies fly!

Edited August 17, 2015 by Zakuska

[Senator]

Even teachings that don't apply to us today?

Last I checked, the teaching of child sacrifice doesn't apply to us today.

Yet we still manage to cull an eternal, spirtual lesson from Abraham's test.

[jkwilliams]

 Even teachings that don't apply to us today?  You'd think the Church would have demolished his house in Downtown Salt Lake already for all the nefariousness that gets layed down by the critics at the feet of the church.

 

Ooooh... the big bad church is at it again. Let the conspiracies fly!

The king of hyperbole strikes again. 

[JulieM]

How many were connubial?

How many were Joseph's for all eternity?

Do you know these things or do you just smart off because you think you know?

Well, he had children born from about half of these marriages (56 children). But what do your questions have to do with why the subject of polygamy was absent from the manual for the year we taught about Brigham Young and his teachings? Edited August 17, 2015 by JulieM