mtomm Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. Do we know why this particular point is important? Why is this pointed out? This question was asked by a member of our Sunday School class and no one had an answer. The questioner also mentioned that this is often pointed out in talks by GA (not sure if his claim is true).
cinepro Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Regarding that scripture being "often pointed out in talks", the BYU Scriptures Citation index only has this one reference: http://scriptures.byu.edu/ Under His own power, He rose from death, never to have His body separated from His spirit again. Of His own volition, He shed the burial linen with which He had been bound, carefully putting the burial napkin that had been placed over His face “in a place by itself,”10 John 20:7 the scripture says. 2015–A:104, Jeffrey R. Holland, Where Justice, Love, and Mercy Meet There are few others for groups of verses that include verse 7, but it's hardly a commonly used reference. Edited July 28, 2015 by cinepro
mtomm Posted July 28, 2015 Author Posted July 28, 2015 And, that reference in Elder Holland's talk was in our Relief Society lesson right after his comment in Sunday School. So perhaps only a big deal in this member's mind. I do, however, still wonder at it's meaning.
CV75 Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. Do we know why this particular point is important? Why is this pointed out? This question was asked by a member of our Sunday School class and no one had an answer. The questioner also mentioned that this is often pointed out in talks by GA (not sure if his claim is true). Perhaps a sign that, even though He had overcome all things, Jesus was still dutiful and organized in His stewardship over earthly things. I think this care is also reflected in scripture verses addressing His other post-resurrection ministry.
bluebell Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 This was passed around Facebook a few months ago. "Why did Jesus fold the linen burial cloth after His resurrection? I never noticed this...SOOOO GLAD I TOOK THE TIME TO READ THIS!The Gospel of John (20:7) tells us that the napkin, which was placed over the face of Jesus, was not just thrown aside like the grave clothes. The Bible takes an entire verse to tell us that the napkin was neatly folded, and was placed separate from the grave clothes. Early Sunday morning, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and found that the stone had been rolled away from the entrance. She ran and found Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved. She said, 'They have taken the Lord's body out of the tomb, and I don't know where they have put him!' Peter and the other disciple ran to the tomb to see.. The other disciple outran Peter and got there first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen cloth lying there, but he didn't go in.Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus' head was folded up and lying to the side.Was that important? Absolutely!Is it really significant? Yes!In order to understand the significance of the folded napkin, you have to understand a little bit about Hebrew tradition of that day. The folded napkin had to do with the Master and Servant, and every Jewish boy knew this tradition.When the servant set the dinner table for the master, he made sure that it was exactly the way the master wanted it..The table was furnished perfectly, and then the servant would wait, just out of sight, until the master had finished eating, and the servant would not dare touch that table, until the master was finished. Now, if the master were done eating, he would rise from the table, wipe his fingers, his mouth, and clean his beard, and would wad up that napkin and toss it onto the table.The servant would then know to clear the table. For in those days, the wadded napkin meant, 'I'm done'.But if the master got up from the table, and folded his napkin, and laid it beside his plate, the servant would not dare touch the table,because........... The folded napkin meant,'I'm coming back!'HE'S COMING BACK!!!!"I'm not sure it addresses the OP but i thought it was interesting. 1
Bobbieaware Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 This was passed around Facebook a few months ago. "Why did Jesus fold the linen burial cloth after His resurrection? I never noticed this...SOOOO GLAD I TOOK THE TIME TO READ THIS!The Gospel of John (20:7) tells us that the napkin, which was placed over the face of Jesus, was not just thrown aside like the grave clothes. The Bible takes an entire verse to tell us that the napkin was neatly folded, and was placed separate from the grave clothes. Early Sunday morning, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and found that the stone had been rolled away from the entrance. She ran and found Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved. She said, 'They have taken the Lord's body out of the tomb, and I don't know where they have put him!' Peter and the other disciple ran to the tomb to see.. The other disciple outran Peter and got there first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen cloth lying there, but he didn't go in.Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus' head was folded up and lying to the side.Was that important? Absolutely!Is it really significant? Yes!In order to understand the significance of the folded napkin, you have to understand a little bit about Hebrew tradition of that day. The folded napkin had to do with the Master and Servant, and every Jewish boy knew this tradition.When the servant set the dinner table for the master, he made sure that it was exactly the way the master wanted it..The table was furnished perfectly, and then the servant would wait, just out of sight, until the master had finished eating, and the servant would not dare touch that table, until the master was finished. Now, if the master were done eating, he would rise from the table, wipe his fingers, his mouth, and clean his beard, and would wad up that napkin and toss it onto the table.The servant would then know to clear the table. For in those days, the wadded napkin meant, 'I'm done'.But if the master got up from the table, and folded his napkin, and laid it beside his plate, the servant would not dare touch the table,because........... The folded napkin meant,'I'm coming back!'HE'S COMING BACK!!!!"I'm not sure it addresses the OP but i thought it was interesting.This is a wonderful explanation, and I'd really like to believe it, but there are many sites which say there is no actual supporting evidence to back the claim. They say each time one tries to find supporting evidence from historical records of ancient Israeli household practices that you just end up at another site that retells the original story without any corroboration.
Duncan Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 This is a wonderful explanation, and I'd really like to believe it, but there are many sites which say there is no actual supporting evidence to back the claim. They say each time one tries to find supporting evidence from historical records of ancient Israeli household practices that you just end up at another site that retells the original story without any corroboration. that's what I had read as well. I always thought Jesus was a neat and tidy person and didn't leave his junk laying about 1
KevinG Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 Tell your children that folding their laundry is Christlike. 4
bluebell Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 This is a wonderful explanation, and I'd really like to believe it, but there are many sites which say there is no actual supporting evidence to back the claim. They say each time one tries to find supporting evidence from historical records of ancient Israeli household practices that you just end up at another site that retells the original story without any corroboration. I'm not surprised. You pretty much have to take everything on Facebook with a grain of salt.
Saint Sinner Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Wrong commentary. Edited July 29, 2015 by Saint Sinner
JAHS Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 Couldn't the angel(s) who rolled away the stone also have been the ones who folded the cloth?
Saint Sinner Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 Here is the correct Matthew Henry Commentary: 20:26-29 That one day in seven should be religiously observed, was an appointment from the beginning. And that, in the kingdom of the Messiah, the first day of the week should be that solemn day, was pointed out, in that Christ on that day once and again met his disciples in a religious assembly. The religious observance of that day has come down to us through every age of the church. There is not an unbelieving word in our tongues, nor thought in our minds, but it is known to the Lord Jesus; and he was pleased to accommodate himself even to Thomas, rather than leave him in his unbelief. We ought thus to bear with the weak, Ro 15:1,2. This warning is given to all. If we are faithless, we are Christless and graceless, hopeless and joyless. Thomas was ashamed of his unbelief, and cried out, My Lord and my God. He spoke with affection, as one that took hold of Christ with all his might; My Lord and my God. Sound and sincere believers, though slow and weak, shall be graciously accepted of the Lord Jesus. It is the duty of those who read and hear the gospel, to believe, to embrace the doctrine of Christ, and that record concerning him, 1Jo 5:11.
Bobbieaware Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 An interesting thought just crossed my mind. Could it be that the risen Lord folded the cloth napkin and the other burial clothes in a manner that was unique to him -- a familiar habit that was well-know to the disciples who had lived with him for three years. Perhaps the Savior was always neat and orderly and never treated his possessions haphazardly, but even treated his clothing and other cloth items with thanksgiving and respect. So when the women and Peter and John looked in the tomb and saw the burial clothing folded in the Savior's unique characteristic way, it may have filled them with a thrill of hope that he might really be alive.
St. Bookmark Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 I have always looked at this verse to show that he raised from the dead and not that the apostle or someone else came in and stole his body, be cause a theif would hurry up and take what he wanted and not clean up after him self.
katherine the great Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 An interesting thought just crossed my mind. Could it be that the risen Lord folded the cloth napkin and the other burial clothes in a manner that was unique to him -- a familiar habit that was well-know to the disciples who had lived with him for three years. Perhaps the Savior was always neat and orderly and never treated his possessions haphazardly, but even treated his clothing and other cloth items with thanksgiving and respect. So when the women and Peter and John looked in the tomb and saw the burial clothing folded in the Savior's unique characteristic way, it may have filled them with a thrill of hope that he might really be alive.I like that possibility! 2
The Nehor Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 Sometimes a napkin is just a napkin. This seems to me like trying to find secret meanings in Jesus writing in the dirt. Maybe it was just a small detail thrown in by an eyewitness?
mtomm Posted July 29, 2015 Author Posted July 29, 2015 All good thoughts. No obvious answer but the speculation is enjoyable.
St. Bookmark Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Sometimes a napkin is just a napkin. This seems to me like trying to find secret meanings in Jesus writing in the dirt. Maybe it was just a small detail thrown in by an eyewitness?The writing in the dirt I found when read in Greek shows that he did not write but took rocks from the ground to give to the group. ( the son of God movie ) shows this pretty well.Also I have heard some teachers use numbers 5:17-31 to explain this scene in the scriptures. Edited July 29, 2015 by St. Bookmark
savedbygrace Posted July 29, 2015 Posted July 29, 2015 The Face of God, by Paul Badde. An interesting book on the subject of the Veronica Icon
Kenngo1969 Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 The I'm coming back explanation is pure crap. No, Volga, tell us how you really feel! Nice to see you. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 An interesting thought just crossed my mind. Could it be that the risen Lord folded the cloth napkin and the other burial clothes in a manner that was unique to him -- a familiar habit that was well-know to the disciples who had lived with him for three years. Perhaps the Savior was always neat and orderly and never treated his possessions haphazardly, but even treated his clothing and other cloth items with thanksgiving and respect. So when the women and Peter and John looked in the tomb and saw the burial clothing folded in the Savior's unique characteristic way, it may have filled them with a thrill of hope that he might really be alive. I like that possibility!Nice to Cyber-see you, Katherine.
Calm Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 He was passing the time practicing napkin origami:http://www.origami-instructions.com/images/napkin-bird-of-paradise/thumbnails/09-napkin-folding-bird-of-paradise.jpg 3
rodheadlee Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 The I'm coming back explanation is pure crap.Why? it's a natural thing at a restaurant. If I'm done I wad my napkin up and toss it non my plate. If I'm leaving my table but I'm coming back I fold my napkin and put it beside my plate nor on my seat. No big deal.
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