Happiness Is The Sum Of Obedience

[Buckeye]

I think that's a decent enough consideration. Utah is young compared to everywhere else in the country. That may go into an explanation, but it's also not the whole explanation. Otherwise we'd still have to see some amount of evidence to support the statements--as per happiness and burdens being lighter.

This struck me yesterday as we sat in Gospel Doctrine and I looked around as people were commenting on their own happiness and light burdens--those who have seemingly struggled for years and often come off as pretty miserable to me, sadly. All I could think of was all the good people outside the gospel who seem to be much happier and much less burdened than many in my ward. Of course my observations are small, biased, perhaps even ignorant, but it strikes me as interesting given all the talk.

What evidence do we have that the gospel lightens burdens or makes people more happy? The statement in this OP is probably more problematic than yesterday's lightening one's burdens, but I wouldn't know. I can assume I'd be less happy outside the gospel, perhaps. But I don't know that. I could assume my burdens would be heavier outside of the gospel, but I don't know that. And I've yet to see any anecdotal situations in which members are better off than non-believers.

 

Agreed, it's not the only consideration. Other unique features includes adherence to the WOW, larger families, etc.

 

As for happiness of non-members, I live the proverbial "mission field" and can attest that non-members run the same spectrum as members. If I had to make (very broad) generalizations, I would say that most of the non-members I know have an advantage over members in that they can vocalize their authenic beliefs more easily, but that they have disadvantage in having less tight-knit communities to turn to when help is needed.

 

I tend to take statements regarding one's happiness with a large grain of salt. This is doubly true for statements by members. And quadruply true for statements by me.

 

Anyways, I believe that happiness, like truth, is more of a direction than a place.

[Nofear]

Obedience for the wrong reasons is almost always better then disobedience.

 

Perhaps. Still doesn't doesn't give the person any brownie points and can actually count against him (Moroni 7:6-9).

 

6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.

7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.

8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.

9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.

[stemelbow]

Anyways, I believe that happiness, like truth, is more of a direction than a place.

I agree. I tried to make a point yesterday in class that I think moves along these lines, but it didn't seem to resonate with anyone. I'm more of a truth-is-really-just-teaching-and-principle-that-work rather than some end point of knowing some "fact". Some principles really work for some people and some don't, so they focus and live other principles. Don't know fi that makes sense.

So yesterday I chimed in to say Christ seems to work on everyone and anyone to make their burdens lighter, so maybe "coming to Christ" deals far more with internal workings with the Spirit AND the Light of Christ, than it does our mantra of outward obedience as being our dedication. This after suggesting we aren't really less burdened than those not of our faith.

I was met with shrugs, which is pretty typical for me, and people continued on telling each other how their stories of having lighter burdens than the rest of the world is the greatest of blessings for being Mormon, or something.

Ok so I can be a bit cynical. I'll get over it.

[DragonLancer]

I don't see much problem with the video. It generally speaks truth to me. I don't fully agree with this statement "the world changes constantly and dramatically, but God, His commandments, and promised blessings do not change. They are immutable and unchanging,” but otherwise it's a good message.

Obedience does bring happiness. But I think we focus to much on it that we forget the higher law of faith. FWIW.

 

I think that it is better stated that principles never change, but implementation details of how we harmonize with those principles in the context of the time period we live in (i.e. covenants and commandments) can and do change according to the needs of the time.  We are only faithful if we adhere to what is required of us at the time in history that we live.

 

A covenant that changed:  the law/oath of vengeance.  It is gone from the temple.  We are now not required to seek after justice for our slain prophets.

 

A principle:  eternal marriage and posterity.  Implementation details:  polygamy or monogamy.  Commandments for implementation of the details:  Have many wives, or have only one wife.  These switch back and forth for whatever reasons the Lord has at the time in the context of the time.

 

Implementation detail:  The law of Moses and its accompanying ordinances.  It is gone, and the commandments that go along with it are fulfilled.  The only detail that may return is sacrifice at the time of the opening of the Millennium, and possibly some Aaronic-level ordinances to go along with it, but this will not be a restoration of the entire law of Moses.

 

Commandments change.  Covenants change.  Interpretations of doctrines change.  Principles never change, and if properly and entirely understood at the time, are implemented correctly for the context of the time.

[The Nehor]

That's a big fat guess. Often committed people to the gospel are just as miserable as people not committed to it, and often they are more miserable then people not committed to it.These are just guesses though. Faithful guesses, I suppose, but guesses.

Please stop mocking the weight of my guesses. They are very self-conscious.

[Ahab]

Sometimes people use the word happy when I think that what they are talking about is joy. Like how the gospel is referred to as the plan of happiness when the plan of joy would be the more appropriate term.

Joy is what I think of as something someone can have, overall, even while going through sad or disturbing moments, even while being persecuted. Not that those bad moments are fun or the person going through them has a smile on their face, but deep within they still have a feeling that the bad moments won't last forever which keeps them from being depressed. Kinda like working hard while grunting because the work is hard physical labor but still worth going through to get that work done.

Happy is what I think of as the opposite of being sad, like a smile is the opposite of a frown. People with joy still go through sad moments but I don't think people can be both sad and happy at the same moment. A person is either sad or happy at a particular time.

So let's change the phrase from the plan of happiness to the plan of joy, and also change the title of the video. Joy is the sum or overall result of obedience to God but that doesn't mean someone with joy should be feeling happy all of the time. We should be mourning with those who mourn and I can't envision someone being happy while truly mourning.

[Calm]

I've heard many complain that Utah is the most depressed state, the capital of women getting plastic surgery on their bosoms, the capital of porn subscriptions in the US, the leader in prescriptions for those who suffer from mental illness, tragic suicide difficulties, including as I've heard the highest in the US when it comes to suicides by young men 15-24, and probably other things that aren't coming to mind now.

And most of these claims can and often are taken out of context.

For example the first one...it is a claim based on Utah being the state with the highest use of a particular antidepressant for a particular company...iow, people were getting treated for problems and not ignoring them or trying to selfmedicate...which would usually be seen as a good thing instead of a bad one. And Utah typically rates high on happiness scales which would seem to indicate that getting medical attention is a good thing.

Another the suicide rate...studies show that commitment to a religious faith actually protects young men from suicide, specifically iirc active LDS were 10 times less likely to commit suicide, inactive LDS were 4 times less likely than their nonreligious counterparts in that age group. The higher suicide rate overall in Utah appears to be part of the higher rates among the mountain states, they are attempting to figure out how higher altitudes may affect brain chemistry...possibly resulting in lower serotonin levels.

PS: youth actually have much lower suicide rates than the elderly and middle aged, about half in 2014...but it is the leading cause of death among 15-25 males because of less death due to medical issues.

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

Edited March 16, 2015 by calmoriah

[pogi]

The great test of life is obedience to God.

 

The great task of life is to learn the will of the Lord and then do it.

 

The great commandment of life is to love the Lord

 

 

http://lds.org/general-conference/1988/04/the-great-commandment-love-the-lord?lang=eng&query=love+god

 

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have bloved you.

 

Obedience = Love of God, others and self

Love = Happiness

[stemelbow]

And most of these claims can and often are taken out of context.

For example the first one...it is a claim based on Utah being the state with the highest use of a particular antidepressant for a particular company...iow, people were getting treated for problems and not ignoring them or trying to selfmedicate...which would usually be seen as a good thing instead of a bad one. And Utah typically rates high on happiness scales which would seem to indicate that getting medical attention is a good thing.

I'm sure there is all sorts of ways to view it. That's part of the problem with defining happiness. But I maintain even if the data itself is to be questioned or the methods to accumulate the data, I'm not sure it speaks well for the Church as a whole.

Another the suicide rate...studies show that commitment to a religious faith actually protects young men from suicide, specifically iirc active LDS were 10 times less likely to commit suicide, inactive LDS were 4 times less likely than their nonreligious counterparts in that age group. The higher suicide rate overall in Utah appears to be part of the higher rates among the mountain states, they are attempting to figure out how higher altitudes may affect brain chemistry...possibly resulting in lower serotonin levels.

Sure I've heard some of this...weather, and long winters seem to always be mentioned as well. But suicide is a pretty difficult subject. it seems there are all types of factors and I'm not sure we have the best handle on it. But, as a base, high suicide rates prove difficult to maintain the easing of burdens and happiness only comes from obedience.

PS: youth actually have much lower suicide rates than the elderly and middle aged, about half in 2014...but it is the leading cause of death among 15-25 males because of less death due to medical issues.

https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

Thanks.

[Calm]

. But, as a base, high suicide rates prove difficult to maintain the easing of burdens and happiness only comes from obedience.Thanks.

Otoh activity and commitment to a faith providing protection against suicide would seem to support it if I understand your premise correctly.

[stemelbow]

Otoh activity and commitment to a faith providing protection against suicide would seem to support it if I understand your premise correctly.

Of course. I'm just not sure where these figures are all coming from.

[Okrahomer]

Of course. I'm just not sure where these figures are all coming from.

 

Calmoriah may be referring to this study by the Utah Department of Health.

[ksfisher]

Being Jewish seems to lower suicide rates:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141002123804.htm

 

As well as a good relationship between parents and children:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150211132103.htm

 

 

On other hand, increased media coverage of suicde(s) tend to drive up the rate:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140902151127.htm

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140501192621.htm

 

 

Air quality seems to increase the suicide rate in my age group.  Time for a vacation and some fresh, clean air:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150212183305.htm

 

 

But not to a place that's too sunny:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140911093326.htm

 

 

And it always seems best to get a good nights sleep:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140602102004.htm

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140813174422.htm

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141222131358.htm

[CV75]

As for happiness of non-members, I live the proverbial "mission field" and can attest that non-members run the same spectrum as members.

 

So yesterday I chimed in to say Christ seems to work on everyone and anyone to make their burdens lighter, so maybe "coming to Christ" deals far more with internal workings with the Spirit AND the Light of Christ

From what I have seen, the Light of Christ is equally accessible to everyone, members and non-memebrs alike. I've seen confirmed members reject the Light of Christ even though they have the Gift of the Holy Ghost; I've seen members with the companionship of the Holy Ghost live consistently with and by the Light of Christ; I've seen non-members also live consistently with and by the Light of Christ but have not yet embraced the restored Gospel, yet enjoy what I consider to be miracles in their lives.

 

I think the Light of Christ draws us to everything indcated in AoF 13, which includes what the Church offers and Christ Himself; the Holy Ghost testifies of the truthfulness of what the Church uniquely offers; the Gift of the Holy Ghost instructs us about these things (including the doctrines and covenants of exaltation); and the companionship of the Holy Ghost cleanses, purifies and sanctifies us so that we can enance our wherewithal and spiritual gifts to gear these things toward God's glory. The constant operator in all of these is the Light of Christ, which we partake of more fully as we move along this spectrum and in the optimal direction.

 

I think we can partake of the Light of Christ more fully as we make correct choices (obedience to eternal law) according to whatever it illuminates, and it illuminates more thngs as we make correct choices. Members and non-members can enjoy this.

[Jeanne]

If this statement were true..you would have to include many things/people/standards that you would need to be obedient to.  Being obedient to a very evil grown up could bring devastation..especially to a child.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I envy the members of my ward that always seem so happy and cheerful in church. It's probably no coincidence that they're all loaded. And I mean loaded with money, not on beer.

[Dgal]

Happiness is a feeling, not a state of being. I can watch a movie and find myself happy. I've known people who don't live the commandments, and quite frankly, they are living happy lives. We have to do better in our arguments. Believe it or not, people can be living in a state of sin, and be happy.

[Dgal]

I envy the members of my ward that always seem so happy and cheerful in church. It's probably no coincidence that they're all loaded. And I mean loaded with money, not on beer.

Another perfect example, as well. We can't keep thinking simplicitcally as to what brings about the feeling of happiness. Happiness is a chemical reaction in our brains. It's not a state of being in our souls.

[Mormonmaniac]

Working makes me happy happy happy.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I screwed up dopamine levels in my brain so I have a hard time reaching happiness even when great things happen, like when the Patriots won the super bowl on that amazing last second interception I wanted to celebrate but my brain went "meh".

[Calm]

That is unfortunate. Will you be able to reset them eventually?

[why me]

Of course, if we could all leave God's laws, I really do think that the world would be a happier place or a more satisfied place. To achieve happiness or contentment, I think that people would need to separate themselves from certain socialization processes that exist inside society. For example, the often media message that happiness comes from material things would be false. Or that happiness comes from an active sex life, of course that is false. Or that happiness comes from a positive attitude, of course would be false. There will always be unhappiness in a person's life. However, we can certainly find contentment and peace by living god's laws, especially in the act of giving, charity with a good dose of empathy. In other words, contentment and peace comres from experiencing the essence of our humanity, with the help of god.

[Dgal]

So, going back to the title of this thread, that happiness is the sum of obedience, we can say that is not an exclusively accurate statement.

People can be obedient to tryannts and be miserable.

People can be rebel against God and still be happy.

 

We need a better argument as to why obedience to God matters. Why it's worth the living.

[janderich]

So, going back to the title of this thread, that happiness is the sum of obedience, we can say that is not an exclusively accurate statement.

People can be obedient to tryannts and be miserable.

People can be rebel against God and still be happy.

 

We need a better argument as to why obedience to God matters. Why it's worth the living.

I would agree that it is not exclusively accurate. In fact, external obedience to the commandments can bring a heavy weight if we have not changed ourselves internally. It can pull us down into depression and true unhappiness. Does this mean we need to give it all up? Of course not! But we must start, and always continue to work, through our inner selves. As Christ said, "First clean the inside of the cup and dish and then the outside also will be clean" (Matt 23:26 NIV). This is exactly the opposite of what so many do.

 

When will we learn to find the harmony in the commandments? They are not there to beat us down to submission, they are there to change are inner nature. How long will we continue to allow our natural mind to fight against the spiritual? Over and over again, day after day, our natural mind tells us what we should do, what we are not doing right, how circumstances need to change. When we learn to identify this negative self criticism and see our spirit self which is beyond this mental war we begin to find the happiness that has eluded us? Such happiness, has almost nothing to do with our external circumstances.

[Maestrophil]

So, going back to the title of this thread, that happiness is the sum of obedience, we can say that is not an exclusively accurate statement.

People can be obedient to tryannts and be miserable.

People can be rebel against God and still be happy.

 

We need a better argument as to why obedience to God matters. Why it's worth the living.

 

What about the possibility of reading the statement like this:

 

"Happiness is the sum of Obedience" - where the sum can not be calculated until the entire equation is written. So maybe when looking back on life as a whole equation, with pluses and minuses, the final sum total = happiness?