Gray Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 In my experiences happiness is comes most often and most consistently when you can love and accept yourself and love and accept those around you. 1
Maestrophil Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 In my experiences happiness is comes most often and most consistently when you can love and accept yourself and love and accept those around you. Which is really the crux of being obedient to the two great commandments issued by Christ, right?
Gray Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Which is really the crux of being obedient to the two great commandments issued by Christ, right? Indeed! However, obedience to interpretations that overshadow the two great commandments, in my experience, do not lead to increased happiness
Tacenda Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) In my experiences happiness is comes most often and most consistently when you can love and accept yourself and love and accept those around you.Gray, so true to this post and the one above! Edited March 20, 2015 by Tacenda
JLHPROF Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Indeed! However, obedience to interpretations that overshadow the two great commandments, in my experience, do not lead to increased happiness Still comes down to an accurate perspective on those two great commandments.Loving a sinner never includes tolerating a sin.
Maestrophil Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Still comes down to an accurate perspective on those two great commandments.Loving a sinner never includes tolerating a sin. Agreed - loving and accepting yourself and others does not include accepting poor behavior
stemelbow Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Indeed! However, obedience to interpretations that overshadow the two great commandments, in my experience, do not lead to increased happiness That's one important message, right there. I fear my own kids miss that important point. There's too much legalese in the LDS Church and too many miss the forest for the trees, I fear. 1
stemelbow Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Still comes down to an accurate perspective on those two great commandments. Loving a sinner never includes tolerating a sin. We have to tolerate sin since we all sin. If any of us were able to not sin then perhaps we can presume to be like God and establish a place wherein we don't tolerate sin in others. But we're not there....yet. We're just us, learning to tolerate each other while we live in sin. Edited March 20, 2015 by stemelbow 1
Gray Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Still comes down to an accurate perspective on those two great commandments.Loving a sinner never includes tolerating a sin. I think you might be talking about "loving" sinners. I'm talking about loving sinners. On the other hand, I think in the case of violent offenses I would be right on track with you in merely "loving" those kinds of people.
Maestrophil Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 We have to tolerate sin since we all sin. If any of us were able to not sin then perhaps we can presume to be like God and establish a place wherein we don't tolerate sin in others. But we're not there....yet. We're just us, learning to tolerate each other while we live in sin. I respectfully disagree. Tolerating sin in others OR one's self is not a function of love. I try and love myself, but I don't "accept" eating cake whenever I want, committing adultery, or any other poor behavior. I fail at being perfect, but I never am OK with just allowing myself to operate at a substandard level without striving for more. I can love someone while not "tolerating" them cheating me, hurting myself or others etc. 1
stemelbow Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I respectfully disagree. Tolerating sin in others OR one's self is not a function of love. I try and love myself, but I don't "accept" eating cake whenever I want, committing adultery, or any other poor behavior. I fail at being perfect, but I never am OK with just allowing myself to operate at a substandard level without striving for more. I can love someone while not "tolerating" them cheating me, hurting myself or others etc. I guess we're not agreeing with what is meant by tolerating. If I didn't tolerate someone for doing something then I'd be all about punishing them, like sending them to prison, or getting them to pay a fine in order to discourage it. But the sins that aren't hurting others I tolerate just fine, since most of those I'm expert at committing. I, for instance, tolerate gay people having sex as long as they aren't hurting others. I tolerate people having sex outside of marriage. I'm not intolerant as if I'm trying to stop them. 1
pogi Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I can see both points of view. I think it is important to feel remorse for sin, which might be difficult if our tolerance is too high. But at the same time, we should not necessarily beat ourselves up for sinning either. We need to acknowledge and accept that we are mortal and will sin. The best way to overcome sin is by loving ourselves past sin, rather than by beating ourselves up for sinning. It is the difference between a healthy remorse and a toxic shame. We should never cross the line between "I did something bad", to "I am bad". The later is a deadly trap and the chains of the adversary. 1
JLHPROF Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I, for instance, tolerate gay people having sex as long as they aren't hurting others. I tolerate people having sex outside of marriage. I'm not intolerant as if I'm trying to stop them. Does God tolerate it? That's all that matters in the end. Is it sin or not sin.God loves ALL his children, but he is still going to deal with those who commit sin. If a parent tolerates a child hitting his sibling that child will continue to hit his sibling.If a parent loves that child and their sibling they will (eventually) intervene to prevent further sin. God WILL eventually intervene once the time for repentance has past. Love won't stop that.
Gray Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Does God tolerate it? Given that none of us who post here is God, it's really none of our concern.
cinepro Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I don't know how long it will be there, but the current Mormon Message states: Happiness Is the Sum of ObedienceDo you understand God's equation for happiness? It links to this video. What jumped out at me was the "Sin will always be sin" comment, especially with the recent issues concerning gay rights. Is this is the LDS Church's left hand not knowing what its right hand is doing? While I agree that there are many things about LDS teachings and culture that lead to a feeling of "happiness", I think trite statements like "Happiness is the Sum of Obedience" don't really make sense. I've known too many people who are totally disobedient to the LDS view of the commandments and are very happy (by any objective definition of the term), and I've known too many LDS who were trying their best and were still beset by circumstances and conditions that prevented them from feeling "happy". I especially find the statement that "Sin will always be sin" to be a little odd, with the implication that sinning prevents happiness. I mean, they don't call them "gay" for nothing. 1
JLHPROF Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Given that none of us who post here is God, it's really none of our concern. It is if our goal is to become as he is.
Gray Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 It is if our goal is to become as he is. I feel closest to Him when I'm able to abstain from judgement.
why me Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) In my experiences happiness is comes most often and most consistently when you can love and accept yourself and love and accept those around you. Maybe not. But it does sound good. I suppose if we pick your sentence apart, we can see some holes in it. What does it mean to accept and love yourself? And love those around us and accept them too? I am not sure that we need positive platitudes now because words are just words. We also need to take into account the human condition and the human condition would find your platitude nearly impossible to implement. However, maybe we can try to respect each other and celebrate a more associated life, at the expense of an individualistic life which the socioeconomic system seems to support. Maybe this associated life would bring more peace to the human psyche. Edited March 20, 2015 by why me
JLHPROF Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I feel closest to Him when I'm able to abstain from judgement. That's funny, because he judges, he appoints his son to judge, his son appoints apostles and bishops to judge.We may not have a calling to specifically judge (or do we), but we are still expected to exercise righteous judgement.I Corinthians 6 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Gray Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 That's funny, because he judges, he appoints his son to judge, his son appoints apostles and bishops to judge.We may not have a calling to specifically judge (or do we), but we are still expected to exercise righteous judgement.I Corinthians 6 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? That's the way God is portrayed traditionally, of course. I don't see it that way. Nevertheless, that's what I need to do in order to feel close to God. When I get judgmental there might be a tinge of pleasure (it's fun to judge others - it makes us feel superior) but then I feel more distant from God.
Coreyb Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Just an anecdote, my most scrupulously obedient mission companion was also my most miserable companion, by far. Interestingly, my most disobedient companion was probably my second most miserable companion. I think Jesus was onto something when he emphasized the spirit of the law above the letter.
pogi Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Just an anecdote, my most scrupulously obedient mission companion was also my most miserable companion, by far. Interestingly, my most disobedient companion was probably my second most miserable companion. I think Jesus was onto something when he emphasized the spirit of the law above the letter. I bet your obedient mission companion uses the same anecdote to teach a different moral - lukewarm people can't stand the heat. Just kidding, I mostly agree with what you are saying.
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